Andesine/Red Laboradite - Does it matter

[nicky newark]

Hi MZ- No he does not have a website. He only does shows in the N.Y. area. The show I went to was a mineral show and he was the only dealer selling faceted stones.You can get a pricelist and show schedule if you call(800)888-GEMS. If you get a chance to read David Epstein''s book" The Gem Merchant" the author gives Joe a nice acknowledgment for all his support.

 

[movie zombie]

thanks, nicky! it was the tourmaline reference that got me going.....

btw, love your avatar! is it one of your andesine purchases?

movie zombie

ps maurice, i think mine are sitting at the post office! there''s a note in my mailbox that there is a package waiting there for me.

 

[nicky newark]

Hi MZ- The Andesine in my avatar is one of two that I purchased from Gemfrance. They are very nice but expensive. The ones I purchased from Amazon Imports are just as nice. At this same show I picked up a top notch 2ct. Indicolite in a round cut. But it was the Brazilian rubellite that I thought was the finest I have ever seen.

 

[MJO]

Date: 3/29/2006 12:31:08 PM
Author: nicky newark
Hi Maurice- Joe from Amazon Imports(Williston Park, N.Y.) has some top quality red Labridorite-I just purchased a couple pieces. All his stuff is top shelf-Tourmalines are the best I have ever seen. His prices are good too.

Hi Nicky,

I''ve never tried him. I''ll probubly see about contacting him after tax season.

Regards,
Maurice

 

[Linda W]

Hi Maurice,

Does he have a website??

Thank you,

Linda

 

[cdgaflash]

Hello,

This is my first post here...

I too have been watching the adesine/labradorite on that jewelry channel (JTV).

I purchased a green labradorite (9.43 carats) for $1180 a few months ago. After 3 appraisals here in Rochester, NY for the same as the price paid, I returned the stone, though a bit disappointed. The company accepted the stone back without question and refunded my purchase price.

Last week, I purchased a honey/orange colored stone during a 1 hour auction, paying 1/3 the price of the first stone. The stone is now called andesine/labradorite. It arrived yesterday and is very nice. I am sending it back for an appraisal. It is 16 carats. Picture is attached (or at least I think so...)

It will be interesting to see what their appraiser says...

If no great shakes with the appraisal, this stone will go back too... I am curious however, if their appraiser will appraise at the 10-30 times purchase price as stated by the hosts on air...

Have a nice day!

Eric

I guess some day I will change avatar, once I figure out how to do it...

 

[conitta]

Welcome Eric....Let us know how it comes out.I have purchased Andesine/Labradorite from them as well. I had one set last week. There is a pic on another topic on the board....

JTV, GSN, DSN or others pics

Connie

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi Connie,

Thanks for the welcome.

As of yesterday, my stone was sent by JTV to be appraised. From what I was told, the appraisal report is directly sent to customer. One of the CSA''s said that I would likely receive the appraisal before the stone, as the stone gets returned to JTV and then re-sent. Once I get the appraisal, I''ll decide if I''ll keep it, or JTV should keep it...

Looking at the JTV website, most of their andesine/labradorite sells for at least $100/carat. Better quality stones about $150/carat. Based upon what I paid for the stone, I did get a relatively good deal either way-

I waw the pictures of your red labradorite ring. VERY nice. I am not entirely sure what I will do with the stone, should I decide to keep it, as it is fairly large, 16.0 carats. If it stays with me, I was thinking of perhaps a cuff bracelet, with the stone mounted east-west... Who knows? The bank account will certainly be the limiting factor in its design....

I''ll keep you posted.

Eric

 

[PrecisionGem]

That''s a pretty darn big window on that stone Eric, don''t you think?

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi Gene,

Actually, I really don''t know...

'');" alt="Insert smilie

" src="http://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/images/smilies/20.gif" border="0"> I guess I am pretty green here... That''s why I posted in the first place-

I take it then, that a large window is NOT a good thing! Then, this stone might go back too... In person, it was very nice, though the picture reminds me of a cough drop!

I am happy to find out more information about gems. What does one look for when selecting a stone? I apologise for my ignorance.

Once I hear about the appraisal, I''ll post again.

Eric

 

[conitta]

Eric...is this the picture JTV had of your stone on their website? I posted the picture of my stone that JTV had and it was awful, flat and dull looking like yours but the stone in person is really lively.It looks like it might be a big glare on the top of the stone.The picture of my stone is on pg. 2 (in this thread) and I think you saw the picture of it I took after I had it set. Difference in night and day in the apperance of the stone.


JTV, GSN, DSN or others pics

Connie

 

[PrecisionGem]

Eric, a window is an area of the stone that you can see right through, and literally read works on a page if you place the stone over some type. It is never a desirable thing, since it is in essence a dead area of the stone. Windows are very typical of most "native cut" (Stones cut in the land they are found) stones. These cutters are concerned with max weight, speed in cutting, and not beauty of the stone. The stones are cut often in assembly line type shops, where worker will produce 20 to 30 stones per day. The quality of cutting is very poor, the polish is done with what I would consider a prepolish.
When you get into these feldspars, the refractive index is pretty low, so the pavillion facets need angles over 41 degrees to avoid windows. With the typical step cut pavillions you see on native cut stones, this is not practical with out low yield from the rough, so you end up with these windowed stones.
When buying a stone, look for the meet points (the point where facets come together) to be sharp and meeting at apoint, polished girdles, no windows, a fine polish with out polishing marks, symmetry, and ofcourse good color.

 

[rubydick]

Date: 3/29/2006 2:56:21 AM
Author: geoberyl
What about tibetan andésine : banning or not from an ethic point of vue? (regarding that tibet is under chinese occupation)

I'd like to know your positions?

A couple things. Not unlike the US occupation of Hawaii, the Chinese occupation of Tibet is not a simple matter. For an interesting history of it that has been little reported, see Thomas Laird's excellent Into Tibet: The CIA's First Atomic Spy and His Secret Expedition to Lhasa.

Regarding andesine vs. labradorite, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about the difference. Also about the difference between schiller and aventurescence. Hope I can help clear it up.

The feldspar mineral group has two major divisions, the "potash (alkali)" and the "plagioclase."

Potash
Series from orthoclase to albite, with anorthoclase in between.

Plagioclase
Series from albite (through subspecies of oligoclase, andesine, labradorite and bytownite) to anorthite.

So what's the difference between andesine and labradorite? Andesine is roughly 30-50% anorthite while labradorite is roughly 50-70% anorthite.

This is further complicated by the structure, which also differs. Bottom line is that the feldspar group is exceedingly complex, but the differences between andesine and labradorite are slight. Some might prefer to call the difference "academic."

What's the difference between "schiller" and the "sunstone" effect? Schiller is a billowy floating light seen in moonstone (generally white to blue) or labradorite (multicolored). It is believed to be caused by exsolution of one felspar within another, or perhaps twinning, too.

The sunstone effect (a sparkling effect) is more properly termed "aventurescence" and is a reflection of light from tiny plate inclusions in the stone. It's seen in aventurine quartz and best seen in goldstone glass. It is also sometimes seen in feldspars. Most sunstone feldspars fall into the oligoclase compositional/structural range (10-30% anorthite), but not always.

Strictly speaking, the red andesine/labradorites being sold are not always sunstones, since they don't always show aventurescence, but as you can see from the above, the gem (and mineral) trades can get pretty sloppy with their nomenclature.

Bottom line with these stones from the Congo/Tibet: they are plagioclase feldspars. The big question as a buyer is one of aesthetic beauty. The more valuable ones are the intense pure colors in larger sizes, which tend to be quite rare.

Hope that helps to clear things up a bit.

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi,

Thank-you for all the information.

Yes, that is the JTV picture of the stone.

The stone did look much nicer in person; brighter, more orangey in color. There did not appear to be any area where there wasn''t any color when looking through the top of the stone (a window, right?).

I didn''t have it that long at home to take a really good look/picture, as I wanted to send it right out to get the appraisal done quickly and still be within the 30 day return period. (just in case...)

Eric

 

[colormyworld]

Congrats on the labradorite/andesine Eric. I have bought a few stones from JTV. I was under the impression that any purchase over 500 dollars has 15 days not 30 days for returns.

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi,

Yes, the JTV policy is 15 day return for items over $500. The first stone (9.43 carat green) I bought/returned was $1180. They took it back without question, then sold it again the next week.

I purchased the current stone during a 1 hour auction on 5/31 for $394 (16 carat honey/orange) which would have the 30 day return period. Dependent upon the appraisal, this could have been a very good buy...

 

[portoar]

Very intrigued by this Andesine discussion! I just ordered the Andesine in my new Avatar. I thought I''d start small to see how I like it. This one is 2.08 carats, 7x9mm.

 

[portoar]

It''s described as Pigeon Blood Red, VVS clarity.

 

[conitta]

portoar...Very nice stone. Where did you order it from? I have several stones but have only had one set. I have a heart shape I would like to have a pendent made and small heart earrings.

Connie

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi,

It looks VERY nice to me.

I am sure you will enjoy it. Good luck!

I have already learned a lot more about the stone since reading/posting here.

A lot of nice people on here have been sharing their knowledge and love of the stone.

Eric

 

[portoar]

Hopefully this will be a bigger picture. I''ll reveal my source after I get this one . . . there is another stone on the site I liked and I want a chance to scoop it up first!

 

[Linda W]

I know ebay sells alot of these stones, but a person never knows how authentic they are.


Linda

 

[portoar]

I''ve never bought a loose stone on ebay, though I hear that there are a few reputable vendors who use ebay as their storefront. I did once buy a fabulous antique garnet necklace as a 6th birthday present for my daughter (saving it for her) and some wonderful vintage Tiffany sterling and 18k scarab earrings, but I don''t think I''d buy a loose stone unless from a vendor recommended by several other people, and with a good return policy and great feedback.

Likewise, I''m suspicious of the gemstones offered by the TV crowd although I so see that some purchases have been very nice pieces. Myself, I would never do it.

I guess the watchword for amateurs like me is to learn as much as we can, pay attention to where the seasoned collectors are buying from (if they share), and pay attention to prices and quality.

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi Folks,

I received the appraisal/stone back from JTV''s "independent" appraiser earlier this afternoon.

$1600 for a 16 carat honey/orange oval andesine/labradorite. Picture taken by JTV is posted above.

I paid about 1/4 of that for the stone, so it wasn''t a bad deal, just not a great deal... I don''t know what happened to the 10-30 times purchase price as stated by hosts on air.

The stone is very nice, though I am somewhat "on the fence" about keeping it. I still have another couple of weeks to decide since the purchase price was under $500. Who knows if prices will ever go up??

Eric

 

[PrecisionGem]

I think you need to ask yourself why you are buying gems... if it''s for an investment, then there are better investments them gems. If it''s to buy and resell, then the gem shopping channels are not the way to go, but if it''s because you like the stone, then keep it. The problem with gems as an investment is selling them. Unless you sell at crazy low prices, it''s not an easy thing to do. I promise you, you can take that $400 stone to 10 jewelers, and none of them will give you $400 for it today. They may take it consignment. They may offer you $150 cash, but not $400 unless they know they have a buyer for it, and certainly not $1600.

 

[movie zombie]

is honey orange the desired color or is red? if it is red, then the honey orange stone may never see the price rise you''ve stated was part of the marketing of this stone and/or are looking for. cut is also going to play a factor in getting a good return and as mentioned above the stone has a pretty big window.

i bought some andesine from a vendor a couple of months back and returned it. the cut was decent and there was good red color.....however, it was also over saturated over much of the stone to the point it was very black in many places. i wasn''t looking to collect or buy for investment. i was looking for stones to set. i will admit to being pretty picky about color stones.....but then i never feel like i settled for less. and i''m not buying for investment but my own personal enjoyment of the particular stone.

as in all things, you get what you pay for and let the buyer beware. but what counts most is do you like the stone? it won''t matter if honey orange is not the desired color if you like it and are buying it for your own pleasure.

movie zombie

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi,

The stone is very nice. YES I do like it... I just need to figure out a functional/safe way of using it in a piece of jewelry I would wear... I am thinking of a silver/gold cuff bracelet with the stone set east/west. Any other ideas?

I do agree that you get what you pay for... But- Almost like that "dollar and a dream" scenerio with the lottery... Hey, you never know...

My confidence with JTV is not necessarily high, especially after 2 purchases of large andesine/labradorite and their appraising pretty much at face value (versus what the show hosts were saying). I guess I did fall for the marketing "hype". I did receive a red, an a couple orange stones (though much smaller) in a faceted gemstone parcel. They are cool and look fine in their gem jars.

I very much appreciate all the words of KNOWLEDGE as well as WISDOM that are posted here.

Eric

 

[movie zombie]

i love cuff bracelets with large stones....however, mine are cabs, not cut stones. what are the dimensions on your 16 carat? given the color of your stone, i think silver with perhaps a a gold bezel or accents would be very very very very interesting!

movie zombie

 

[cdgaflash]

Hi Movie Zombie,

We are definitely thinking along the same lines.

Dimensions are 22.88x16.09.

I agree that gold bezel/accents with silver cuff would look quite nice. There is a jeweler here Rochester that could probably do it for me. From what I understand, they do a lot of piece work for well known designer who specializes in silver/gold, so my request could certainly be accomodated.

Have a good evening.

Eric

 

[stonejunkie]

this is my first time in this forum and I have been hearing alot about jtv. I was a jtv junkie for a while but now it seems that they are being kind of shifty these days. even with their tanzanite. if you ever watch keep an eye on their lighting when they show the tanzanite. it seems that they are using a florescent light or some kind of black light to make the medium/light colored tanzanite look darker.

also, about the andesine/labradorite, I purchased quite a few beautiful reds back in Jan. I have not purchased any of the ones that they are showing now. it seems that they are from another location. their is alot of browns and orange in the stones. when i purchased mine, all of them were a pure red and very vibrant., now they are not the quality that they had before. i think that they are trying to feed the masses and they just are setteling for what they can get. i would not invest my time or money in the ones that they are trying to hawk these days. they are just trying to make a buck. if you notice, when they get the real beautiful reds they are priced alot more per ct. than the orange/brown ones. i think that the supply of the tibetan stones are drying up and they are getting anything they can get their hands on because they know that the jtv viewers believe anything they say without doing research on what they are buying.

just a work of warning: the tanzanites and the andesine/labradorite are of lesser quality now watch out for what you are buying. and the zingers as they say are a joke...

take them for face value! they are sales people and they will say anything to get the job done.