And it's down to these 2, advice needed please

[BrownyJones]

Hello PS experts, I have been searching for a 2Ct RB for a while now and am down to these 2 stones. The 2.2ct E stone is about 4K more than the 1.95Ct F stone. They are both SI1 with the E stone having tiny black inclusions, and the F stone having twinning wisps and some crystals. Both are eye clean. The E stone has a crown angle of 35 and a pavilion angle of 40.6. The F stone also has a pavilion angle of 40.6 but a crown angle of 34.0. The vendor says that both stones are not hazy or milky and have excellent luster. I actually like the blue fluorescence. The pictures below are all the vendor has and can not get an idealscope or ASETS image. Once I get the ring, I will be buying an idealscope to look for myself. Which would you chose and why? Should I go down to an H and up the clarity to VS2 or higher? My GF has a pretty good eye for color, and we would like to keep it as white as possible. Thanks in advance for your priceless advice!


Stone 1
E, SI1, 2.2 Ct, eye clean
table: 56%
depth: 61.0%
crown angle: 35
pavilion angle: 40.6
crown height: 15%
pavilion depth: 43%
star facet length: 50%
lower girdle facet: 80%
girdle: thin to medium
symmetry: excellent
polish: excellent
Fluorescence: strong blue
Clarity: crystals, clouds, needles
HCA = 0.8


Stone 2
F, SI1, 1.95 Ct, eye clean
table: 55%
depth: 61.3%
crown angle: 34
pavilion angle: 40.6
crown height: 15%
pavilion depth: 43%
star facet length: 50%
lower girdle facet: 80%
girdle: medium to slightly thick
symmetry: excellent
polish: excellent
Fluorescence: strong blue
Clarity: twinning wisps, crystal, cloud, feather
HCA = 0.8

 

[Dancing Fire]

Between these 2 stone I'll pick #2. How about a G VS2 stone?

 

[BrownyJones]

I'd definitely be interested in a well cut 2Ct G VS2 if I could find one under 20K! Why stone 2 versus 1? Thanks.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Here's a beautiful 1.8ct G SI1 CBI . Call Wink..

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity-new&id=1397

 

[BrownyJones]

Thanks Dancingfire, that's a beautiful stone. I have a newbie question. If you use an arbitrary scale to rate cut from 1 to 10, with rating 10 being super ideal (such as WF ACA) and a grade of 100% light performance, a rating 9 would be ideal with a grade of 90% (such as WF ES) and so forth. If the 1.8Ct G SI1 CBI stone being a 10, what would you rate the E stone and why? What would you rate the F stone and why?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I couldn't handle the black inclusions on the top one and the inclusions aren't great on the second one, either. I'd go smaller and to a G-H VS2 or a cleaner SI1.

You'd have to ask about eyeclean factor on this one, but the cut is superior to the two you posted.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3075971.htm?source=pricescope

Fabulous to find a top quality stone just under 2 cts:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3317422.htm?source=pricescope

 

[John P]

Hi BrownyJones. You asked me to come to this thread and take a look.

Hi John Pollard, this is a fascinating discussion since I am a physicist and appreciate attempts at quantifying these qualifications. When you have some time, could you use your light performance tool and calculate the theoretical light performance of these 2 stones I am looking at? Thanks John.

Any meaningful extrapolation would require a 3D scan of the diamonds. Remember, these are 3D objects. Here is what I mean:

For the HCA result you plugged in a few averaged data points. The HCA "drew" a basic 2D outline of the diamond and spat out 0.8 as a result, which simply means the diamond's expected to have strong light return (HCA<2.0).

For the software averaged data-points won't be any better. Example: "40.6" pavilion angle would then be assumed all-around. But that's just an average of 8 measurements which GIA further rounds. The actual eight numbers might all be near 40.5 or 40.6 or 40.7...or they might stray far from the average. Same for crown angle. Same for stars. The lower halves number 16 measurements, and that average is rounded to the nearest 5% (!). And no information whatsoever is given for the 16 upper break facets.

The actual images you have are more helpful. It would be nice to have actual ASETs for them, to see any impact on brightness and contrast patterns caused by the 3D precision inconsistencies in the hearts images.

By the way: The first hearts-image you posted is not a photo. It was indeed generated from a 3D scan of the diamond. So that scan exists, and whoever gave you that image should be able to render a meaningful ASET simulation from the same scan.

 

[BrownyJones]

Thanks JohnPollard for the helpful information. Thanks Diamondseeker for the great finds. Those stones look great. I'm a newbie to this so please bear with my ignorance. The the stones by CBI and WF are undoutedly better cut stones than the E or F stones. But they are also 3-5K more than the E/F stones, and are even smaller in weight/diameter. I understand that buying a diamond with a limited budget is about compromising the 4 C's. In order to make a selection, what I am trying to understand and sort of quantify is how much better is the cut and light performance to make it worth the extra 4K while reducing size and going with a lower color. If the price difference was 1k and the the 3 other C's are comparable, then it would be a no-brainer decision. That's why i suggested a scale on the previous post in order to sort of quantify how much better the cut was, how much better the light performance is. It's difficult to weight the 4 C's without having a quantity, pardon the pun, I work with numbers all day!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Thanks Dancingfire, that's a beautiful stone. I have a newbie question. If you use an arbitrary scale to rate cut from 1 to 10, with rating 10 being super ideal (such as WF ACA) and a grade of 100% light performance, a rating 9 would be ideal with a grade of 90% (such as WF ES) and so forth. If the 1.8Ct G SI1 CBI stone being a 10, what would you rate the E stone and why? What would you rate the F stone and why?

Your Qs are impossible to answer since the stones are not in front of us thus the reason most members here will advise people to by the cream of the crop cuts.

 

[BrownyJones]

That's true. Spend money on what you can see...

 

[Dancing Fire]

That's true. Spend money on what you can see...

precision cut diamonds don't come cheap...

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I just feel like black inclusions of that size are kind of a no-go in a 2 ct stone. Maybe you couldn't see them from a distance, but it would bug me even when I looked at them with a loupe when checking prongs, etc. The second one doesn't have as big inclusions, but it has a black one right under the center of the table. Let me check ideal cuts that are not superideal. Be back soon.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Not having great luck. I have looked at about three more vendors and am not seeing anything I love. You just have to have idealscope or ASET images to tell if a stone is worth buying. I just couldn't spend $20k (or even $5k) for a diamond that had leakage. The one below is above budget, but it shows about the lowest you'll find a really well cut 2 ct.,G VS2.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6668959-2.03-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

 

[cflutist]

If you are not in a hurry, you could commission Crafted By Infinity to "Cut to Order" for you.

That way you get precision optics in the size, color, and clarity you want.

CBI diamonds are all AGS0, Hearts and Arrows, and SuperIdeal diamonds. Period.

That's what I did, and I am very happy with the outcome.

Just give Wink of HPD a call.

 

[BrownyJones]

I would if I could afford it. How much are kidneys going for these days?

 

[teobdl]

I would if I could afford it. How much are kidneys going for these days?

Depends on the blood type

I like the first diamond you posted a lot. It's tough to know where the black crystal actually resides and whether you can see it in real life at different angles. You'd have to inspect it to be sure you can't see it.

The second one is very nice, also. I'm mostly concerned about the crystal under the table. Looks like you'd be able to spot it on close inspection, but again, you'd have to see for yourself.

Generally, I don't think paying for "super ideal" is worth it. I have compared a few (not mentioning brands) to each other and to non super-ideal, but still excellently cut, diamonds, and I could only barely tell a difference between super ideals and non-brand excellent ideals. But only if I stared, inspected, and spent way too much time trying to figure out which was which. In the end, I decided that yes, there are tiny, minute difference that you may be able to notice if you have the eyes and the patience for it, but I certainly wouldn't bet money on guessing which is which, even when the diamonds are side by side. I am even less willing to spend money for something that can't be seen when there's no direct comparison (real life). It's the same principal with D vs F color. You might be able to see a difference if you stare and stare and stare and compare. But the differences are tiny and, to most, not worth it especially when there is no "perfect ideal" reference in real life.

 

[cflutist]

I would if I could afford it. How much are kidneys going for these days?

I like numbers as well, not a physicist, but a retired software engineer.

I encourage you to see a CBI diamond, live, and in living color.
It costs nothing to actually SEE a true Superideal (CBI). It’s why Wink has the SITBI program. Take it around and compare it to diamonds at the local stores – make an educated decision.

Here is some information on the program:
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=sitbi

I know that when I saw CBI diamonds at a Meet the Cutter Event, I just knew that I had to have one and I didn't care what they cost.
I also knew that I could have easily bought a 3-ct diamond for the price I paid for my 2.21 F-SI1, but preferred to buy what I considered to be the best in light performance in all environments. It still amazes me today that my diamond throws off tons of dispersion in semi-dark rooms.

Like with most things in life, imo, you get what you pay for.

 

[Gypsy]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]