An observation about the "learning" threads.....

[aljdewey]

I''m all for ed-ju-ma-kation and advancing the knowledge of the masses on diamonds.

But I guess I''m having a hard time appreciating the value in such threads when it seems answers become a lot less forthcoming the minute the questions get hard. It''s a bit like getting folks all revved on Algebra and then deciding half-way through the text that there are more important questions than what "X" equals......and then lurching on to quantum physics. And for those folks who still care what "X" equals......why do you care? It''s not as important as *this*.

It seems the modus operandi lately is to dodge tough questions by simply starting another "learning" thread.....a la "wag the dog".

Or maybe it only happens when the results don''t bear out what the hypothesis was? I don''t know.

But the shell game at the carnival is getting old. It''s a bit tough to stay "on track" when the track keeps changing so darned fast. Look here.....no, look here!

Evidently, it''s made everyone humorless as well.

There just seems to really be a lot of testerone lately with every technical discussion. Maybe an open-format discussion isn''t the best way to share ideas/information. Maybe posting up one''s papers or research would be a better way to go. I don''t know. Thoughts?

 

[freaknyea]

Disclaimer: Random Gibberish
Well I would not exactly say that Testosterone is a problem. I like that fact that experts or amateurs or amateurs who think they are experts can disagree and argue about something. Although you can usually tell who is correct in most cases. For example... The wrong person might be the one who just becomes immature and starts throwing out accusations they hope would be real for their sake or in hope that someone might fall into their stupidity.
I believe there are alot of experts on here that give honest answers and don''t always know the answers and for any person who is not an expert that is a quality that they are looking for. A person who is not afraid to say they are wrong or that they don''t know the answer. Although I do believe that it should be almost neccessary for the expert to have the decency to gain the knowledge. Any great person would. There has to be desire in there somewhere.
In someway I do agree that some questions are being avoided and I don''t totally understand myself. I guess I am shocked to believe that nobody can answer a question especially on this forum. But I must say that I am not saying that it is exactly the case that questions are being avoided and that some people just don''t know or don''t know enough yet. I am a professional musician I have studied Western Art Music intensively for quite some time although I would still consider myself young. Although I know about other types of music around the world and I have played in many different genras/cultures I would not be able to explain everything about that type of music because I don''t know. I do not have enough experiance to give you that information and I would feel quilty trying to explain something I don''t know. I know I am yappin'' on and I don''t even know if I am answering this question correctly or not but I know that I am able to teach/explain a majority of things in types of music although I have not had an in depth experiance with it. That does not mean that I don''t know anything and does not mean I am not an expert. Truthfully I could go on forever with many different examples but I just don''t feel like writing and I believe the main point is there AND we are talking about diamonds and not music. Unless we are considering a more contemporary literature where diamonds are music. Don''t ask me what I mean by that I will just give the answer of !Aesthetics!.
I hope you haven''t made it this far... I feel bad you actually made an attempt to read this. In the end I ask questions and hope for them to be answered and as a professional as probably many of your are in your own profession would like answers and would want to be able to answer any questions that came along to you in your profession. Sometimes you just don''t really care. I try not to bring up music to everybody because I don''t want to hear about how they loved the piano when they were younger and they wished they had stayed with it their whole life because they were so good at it... When really they sucked and only played for a couple months. Yes it is mean I know but it is true. I will sit there and listen to it though and in some way appreciate the fact that they feel comfortable enough to share it with me.
SO DIAMONDS... I don''t know anything. I just only hope I can find someone that I can question so I feel comfortable enough to trust their answers. I must also do my own research because it is not difficult to believe an expert who is really not an expert at all... rather just another scammer.
Argue all you want... it is easier for me to trust one person when I can see all sides.
Sorry for this ...
Chris Roblee

 

[MissAva]

No, I agree with you Alj. Lately this has been feeling less like a consumer education forum and more like a lab, at least to me. While I am all for learning as much as possible I cannot help but wonder if the late complicated threads might prevent lurkers from posting out of fear of sounding stupid.
I myself have been spending less time on Rocky Talky as the threads are a good three feet over my head, and I cannot see how they would benefit the consumer without the answers to the questions being posed.

 

[oldminer]

Every morning I come onto Pricescope looking for fresh threads that only have less than 4 responses to see if there is something new I can contribute. Some days there are a couple and other days nothing much.

I then go over what I might post that furthers people along ghe way to knowledge and being able to be better and smarter about diamonds or jewelry. I write most of my posts in Word, dress them up a bit, spell check them, and then try to make a header that will interest readers. A lot of the postings are technical because that is the epoch we live in. Traditional business mdels are passing away and a new sort of world is evolving. I don''t see it necessarily as better, but it is new. Remaining "new" is a good goal in itself as one gets older.

The level of stress and frustration is right on the surface in some of the threads. We all have seen it raise its head. With all the terrible weather and abandoned Americans in New Orleans of the past month, with the fruitless war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and with growing national and global pressures, it all makes some sense that we have some venting to do. Life is not just a bowl of cherries.

I sure want people to feel welcome on Pricescope. While we may have several threads that are overly deep for some participants, there is a wealth of more understandable stuff in here, too.

 

[strmrdr]

1> the tech stuff needs to be talked about in the open.
2> a seperate forum for it where the experts and the consumers who want to can argue it out sounds like a good idea to me
3> gemex has changed the software and rules, screenshots are no longer allowed.
4> Belle wanted princess cuts and Jon has said the next batch that they
would watch for interference colors and report the results. That hasnt happened yet.
5> Belle then said rounds would be ok so Jon said ok when I get done with my web guy ill look at it. Seems like i remember a certain alj complaining about his website so I think that would be a good thing.. dont you?
6> in the meantime he posts threads he has been working on for over 3 months and off and on for 5 years before that.

Where is the problem there?
That he didnt drop everything to run the rounds and pay his webguy for doing nothing while he ran some b-scope scans?
Iv waited 2-3 months for data from several different vendors.
It happens they are busy.

Now the tired bull of your just defending your friend is gonna start,,,
bleh bleh bleh.
What ever.

 

[belle]

Date: 9/27/2005 9:29:40 AM
Author: strmrdr
1> the tech stuff needs to be talked about in the open.
agreed. that's what this forum is for.

2> a seperate forum for it where the experts and the consumers who want to can argue it out sounds like a good idea to me
that doesn't seem necessary.

3> gemex has changed the software and rules, screenshots are no longer allowed.
this has absolutely no bearing on the questions i'm asking. there are results posted on the website. i am asking for nothing different.

4> Belle wanted princess cuts and Jon has said the next batch that they
would watch for interference colors and report the results. That hasnt happened yet.
i wanted jon to rescan the stones that he initally agreed to do in garry's first post.

5> Belle then said rounds would be ok so Jon said ok when I get done with my web guy ill look at it. Seems like i remember a certain alj complaining about his website so I think that would be a good thing.. dont you?
i said rounds would be okay, because after the first batch of stones that garry listed dissappeared, there were only rounds left that showed interference colors. and actually, here's what jon said in that thread:

Date: 9/16/2005 11:41:32 PM
Author: Rhino

Date: 9/16/2005 2:07:55 PM
Author: belle
i was interested more in the effects of interference colors in princess cuts, but i am also curious as to what a rescan of rounds will produce.

i did a quick run through of the smaller listings and came up with these:

www.goodoldgold.com/1_722ct_j_si1_h%26a.htm
www.goodoldgold.com/1_560ct_i_vs2_h%26a.htm
www.goodoldgold.com/1_546ct_i_vs1_h%26a.htm
www.goodoldgold.com/1_264ct_g_vs2_h%26a.htm
www.goodoldgold.com/1_241ct_f_si1_h%26a.htm
www.goodoldgold.com/1_202ct_h_si1_h%26a.htm

rhino, i've already saved screenshots as they are now with interference colors, so all you have to do is rescan the stones and post the results without any interference colors.

You are a dear. When I get up to work tomorrow, between appointments, as time allows I must address a response in one thread I was tackling long before this one. Once I complete that belle I'll be happy to do a rescan for ya on these. If I can I'll try and squeeze in one or two if I see I can't finish my response in the other.

Thank you for doing this leg work for me and for considering where I was coming from.

6> in the meantime he posts threads he has been working on for over 3 months and off and on for 5 years before that.
hehehehe..okay

Where is the problem there?
That he didnt drop everything to run the rounds and pay his webguy for doing nothing while he ran some b-scope scans?
webguy is only put out if he is to answer my question? everything else is fair game?

Iv waited 2-3 months for data from several different vendors.
which thread are you referring to?

It happens they are busy.
aren't we all..


Now the tired bull of your just defending your friend is gonna start,,,
if the shoe fits...

bleh bleh bleh.
What ever.

 

[valeria101]

This thread needs some cheering up

Does this help ?

Not long ago, this one came into my journal allert inbox...




"Would You Like to be a Prosumer?
Information Revelation, Personalization and Price Discrimination in Electronic Markets"
International Journal of the Economics of Business (LINK)
______________________________________________________________________________

Serious problem and research question, no ?


Aparently some would answer 'yes'.

There is allot of research time spent on what on Earth might make forums like this tick. That is just a recent, random drop in the bucket.

None of the rather involved literature tells me... why is it worth asking hard questions in the first place. If unpleasant for anyone, they may just elicit some other sort of response than a good answer.

Is this a good thing? No to me. But there are many cheerful ways around it, as much as I can tell.

 

[aljdewey]

1> the tech stuff needs to be talked about in the open.
I agree, with a stipulation.....that experts all agree and understand that these threads are not a proving ground, nor should they be. I cannot think of a field in which the top experts agree all the time, and yet there are some lately who are acting like their entire career is being impugned just because someone has an opposing opinion. That''s not learning; that''s posturing for the camera.

2> a seperate forum for it where the experts and the consumers who want to can argue it out sounds like a good idea to me

3> gemex has changed the software and rules, screenshots are no longer allowed. And that means discussion cannot happen around past images? In that thread, Jon has been able to successfully take a photograph of the monitor with the data on it for one stone.....why can''t that happen for the others?

4> Belle wanted princess cuts and Jon has said the next batch that they
would watch for interference colors and report the results. That hasnt happened yet.
I, too, note the coincidence that Belle has noted regarding this. That''s all I''ll say on this.

5> Belle then said rounds would be ok so Jon said ok when I get done with my web guy ill look at it.
Belle went back and identified a handful of round stones and posted all the color interference images. That means all that has to happen is a quick rescan of each stone. Since you seem to think it''s a piece of cake to demand photographing/posting hearts images for over 250 stones, it''s a bit ironic for you of all people to posture that scanning less than a handful of stones will be such a time drain.

More to her point, it''s been 3 weeks since the requests. It''s tough to buy that there''s been "no time" to follow through on his promise to do the scans, but at the same time, there''s been plenty of free time to initiate a few more learning threads???? I''d have a lot more respect for saying "I don''t want to pursue it" than promising and waffling.

Seems like i remember a certain alj complaining about his website so I think that would be a good thing.. dont you?
Storm, this is a weak argument, even for you.
a) My comments about difficulty finding stones easily on his website ONLY came about when Jon cried bias because people weren''t pointing to his stones.
b) I seem to recall that others agreed....in fact, *you* even went so far as to chime in and say "gosh, I can''t believe we agree on something. *I* told him the very same thing." So let''s not lay it all with me, eh?
c) It''s been 18 MONTHS since those observations were made.....and now, all of the sudden, that''s the important and pressing thing? The reason why he can''t rescan 5 stones? If you say so.

6> in the meantime he posts threads he has been working on for over 3 months and off and on for 5 years before that. And threads he''s started subsequent to the one in question.
Where is the problem there?
That he didnt drop everything to run the rounds and pay his webguy for doing nothing while he ran some b-scope scans?
Iv waited 2-3 months for data from several different vendors.
It happens they are busy.
If you''re buying it, that''s good. At least someone is.

Now the tired bull of your just defending your friend is gonna start,,,
Ah yes....and how does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot?

bleh bleh bleh.
What ever. At least on this, we agree.

 

[pricescope]

RE: another forum. We have journal for more advanced and detailed articles. It might be a good idea for the experts to submit their findings there.

Yet we should have constructive discussion and reviews of the journal articles on the forum...

On another note: it doesn't help to get personal, guys.

 

[fire&ice]

I gotta agree with Al. But, to add the word "stale" is appropriate. It''s what happens when you don''t have the infusion of independents on the ground in the field.

At the end of the day, the consumer coming on this board just wants advice on how to pick a stone that is right for them in their own budget.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 9/27/2005 10:40:01 AM
Author: Pricescope
RE: another forum. We have journal for more advanced and detailed articles. It might be a good idea for the experts to submit their findings there.

Yet we should have constructive discussion and reviews of the journal articles on the forum...

On another note: it doesn''t help to get personal, guys.

Indeed, Leonid, I think the Journal is not used sufficiently. The ''most popular author'' has been the same one for the past 6 months, and that is not good.

Over the past years, I have learned that true technical discussions regularly end up without a result. That is normal. The same subject will come back later on, and gradually, people will come to a consensus. It might be frustrating, but this is the way it goes. There are probably different reasons for this: participants do not have sufficient time to follow up, the original thread goes off-topic, different participants are not talking about the exact same phenomenon, and so on.

Time generally brings wisdom, and while it seems that questions remain open, the topics will come back in other threads later on, and solutions will eventually come up.

What is worrying me, however, is how some of the consumers seem to behave like hard-core fans of one or another vendor. This seems to increase the testosterone-level, since we are not playing a friendly tennis-match anymore, we have fans on the stands, and they push us towards winning in stead of us enjoying the disagreement. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but this seems to be the case.

The truth of the matter is, if one of us vendors will try to win, we will all hurt. By acknowledging that most of us are selling a great product, with slight differences in appearance, we have managed to convince a lot of people that cut is extremely important, and it is to the benefit of all people selling well-cut stones, whether they participate in this forum or not.

Just to name a few, I think that Whiteflash, GOG, Eightstar, Superbcert, and many others, like NiceIce (hey Todd, we miss you, come back, please) are all selling a wonderful product, each with a different angle on what makes their product stand out. Now, we can disagree heavily about details, but that has nothing to do with the quality of our person or our product. I hope that the consumers can respect this. If you think about soccer, there is more fighting in the stands than on the field. Therefore, let us have our disagreements without pushing our testosterone.

Sorry, but I have been rambling. I am not entirely happy with how I expressed my views here. Please do not crucify me for them.

Live long,

 

[pricescope]

Great post, Paul. Thank you