Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of quality

[bgray]

I am looking for a large amethyst (not loose but a vintage stone in a piece of jewelry. i will either repurpose the stone or ideally wear as is). What constitutes a top top amethyst? I understand Siberian stones have the reddish flashes but many seem too red (pinkish). Others seem too dark or even if a pretty deep violet, too "flat". What should I be looking for?

 

[T L]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

I am looking for a large amethyst (not loose but a vintage stone in a piece of jewelry. i will either repurpose the stone or ideally wear as is). What constitutes a top top amethyst? I understand Siberian stones have the reddish flashes but many seem too red (pinkish). Others seem too dark or even if a pretty deep violet, too "flat". What should I be looking for?

I would personally ignore the term "Siberian" or "Russian" to describe amethyst. Go for a stone that is not flat purple in color. When I say "flat purple," I mean that the stone doesn't give off any other color than purple, it looks like grape juice, and doesn't have the lovely blue and red colors that accompany finer qualities. Even some darker toned stones can be very flat. I prefer stones that have flashes of blue and red, and African, as well as Uruguayan stones, tend to have this quality. I would stay away from Brazilian material, as it tends to be very flat in color. Just know that flat colored material can come from anywhere, so you still have to make an educated decision.

Here is my Zambian amethyst, which I always annoyingly post here, but it gives you a good depiction of the blue and red flashes that come out of nice quality material.

Here is a "flat" colored amethyst, although it's the same darkness as my stone. I would NOT want this stone. I actually purchased a stone like this once, and sold it to a friend who liked it. It could not compare to my Zambian stone, and I thought it would be higher quality as depicted online. It was Uruguayan, but not a very good one IMO.

Also buy from a reputable dealer, as there are a lot of fine colored synthetics on the market sold as natural.

 

[liao]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Agree with TL. However, I will add indonesian amethyst to the list

 

[bgray]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thanks TL. I will post a few things I am looking at --I see what you mean.

 

[bgray]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thoughts on this?

 

[Rosebloom]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thoughts on this?

What are those side stones? Chrysoberyl? I love how they pair with the amethyst.

 

[bgray]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thoughts on this?

What are those side stones? Chrysoberyl? I love how they pair with the amethyst.

I think peridot?

 

[blithesome71]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thoughts on this?

That Amethyst looks nice (color-wise & size) is it Uruguayan or Zambian?
As for the setting.... It's modern & unique but it has that "Transformers/Robot" look/vibe

Here's what I think an example of a fine amethyst (At least for me)

http://www.earthstreasury.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/FB-1521-2.jpg

 

[marymm]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thoughts on this?

I do like the Amethyst paired with the Peridots, but I think the bulky bezel/closed-in setting will make the Amethyst quite dark; and I agree with others that the setting itself is quite blocky/squared-off, and not in a good way. Of courses, taste/style preferences vary widely, and this kind of setting may suit your finger/hand quite well; you know best in that regard.

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Agree with TL. However, I will add indonesian amethyst to the list

Interesting, I've never seen any of the Indonesian material.

OP if you're looking for Siberian amethyst set in a vintage or antique piece of jewelry www.romanovrussia.com has some stuff like that. The ring you posted is bezeled and therefore in an enclosed setting which prevents light from traveling all over inside the amethyst. I'd worry the amethyst would black out a lot. I have a darker purple amethyst (lighter than that one but still on the darker side) which has lovely blue and red flashes in the right lighting. But it still blacks out in some light. Especially low light.

Thoughts on this?

What are those side stones? Chrysoberyl? I love how they pair with the amethyst.

Most likely peridot.

 

[T L]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thoughts on this?

That Amethyst looks nice (color-wise & size) is it Uruguayan or Zambian?
As for the setting.... It's modern & unique but it has that "Transformers/Robot" look/vibe

Here's what I think an example of a fine amethyst (At least for me)

http://www.earthstreasury.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/FB-1521-2.jpg

Those are nice. It's often difficult to capture the red flashes on camera, but you can see the deep blue emanating from those gems.

I would also caution antique jewelry with people claiming that the amethyst are truly Russian.

#1) Not all antique Russian amethyst are high gem quality and also rather pale or flat in color.
#2) There's no real way to confirm origin that I know of, and it's probably not worth the trouble, also beware of synthetics. No matter the origin, it should have the blue and red flashes and be a nice tone, not too dark, nor light. I would really ignore claims of Russian or "Siberian" origin authenticity.

I would prefer to buy a loose stone from a highly reputable dealer, and some African material looks just as nice, if not nicer, than many stones that are supposedly from Russia.

Amethyst, like sapphire, tends to have a lot of zoning as well, so you want ones that face up even in color. I don't mind zoning from the side if the face up color is amazing.

 

[T L]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thoughts on this?

That setting is way to bulky and enclosed, and I have a feeling it will make the amethyst look too dark IRL.

The side stones are most definitely peridot, but I love chyrsoberyl with amethyst as well. Purple and neon yellow-green look great together.

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

#2) There's no real way to confirm origin that I know of, and it's probably not worth the trouble, also beware of synthetics. No matter the origin, it should have the blue and red flashes and be a nice tone, not too dark, nor light. I would really ignore claims of Russian or "Siberian" origin authenticity.

Ah, sorry, I had no idea. I thought there was a proper way of confirming origin. Oops.

 

[bgray]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Thanks. Everyone. Paralyzed by all the information. Romanov does have some nice things but the stuff is expensive and the seller has an attitude. Oh well I will keep looking.

 

[JewelFreak]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Bgray, what did they say? What do you mean by "an attitude?" I've looked often at that site but never made an offer because most pieces seem too expensive -- but I'm curious about the seller. Were they impolite?

--- Laurie

 

[LoversKites]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Bgray, what did they say? What do you mean by "an attitude?" I've looked often at that site but never made an offer because most pieces seem too expensive -- but I'm curious about the seller. Were they impolite?

--- Laurie

Yeah, I also wonder. I asked them once a question about something, specifically stated that I was not interested in buying anything and despite that he still replied politely and seemed happy to answer. Maybe there was a language barrier. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Bgray, about your amethyst you can also try contact one of the custom cutters used here and ask if they have the rough that will wield the gem you are looking for.

 

[bgray]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Bgray, what did they say? What do you mean by "an attitude?" I've looked often at that site but never made an offer because most pieces seem too expensive -- but I'm curious about the seller. Were they impolite?

--- Laurie

Dismissive.

 

[T L]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Brazil has produced some very nice Amethyst, in the past & now, the Pau D'Arco material was particularly nice.

Arizona, "Four Peaks," produces some of the finest Amethyst in the world. So has Georgia.

Madagascar is producing some top Amethyst.

Yes, Uruguay & Zambia are always thought of first, but by no means are these countries the only places that produce top color Amethyst.

I've had many pure purple Amethyst that are/were quite nice. We have to remember the purple is made of red & blue. The highly saturated medium dark purple Amethyst are quite nice, displaying red & blue flash.

I'm sure there are some nice amethysts from Brazil (although I'm unimpressed with Pau D'Arco material), and elsewhere. I just tend to avoid it because for the most part, it's really not that nice to me (again JMO). Like with any gem, you can find great material even in places where it's not a coveted origin. Likewise, just because a gem comes from a coveted origin, doesn't mean it will be great.

Four Peaks is nice, but I haven't seen any decent material on the market in ages. I think it's long gone, but I could be wrong, and the Georgia material isn't as nice to me, but JMO.

Amethyst really isn't valued based on origin, so just find the nicest NATURAL stone you can find, no matter the location. It's just that some locations have better quality overall.

 

[Haywood74]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Brazil has produced some very nice Amethyst, in the past & now, the Pau D'Arco material was particularly nice.

Arizona, "Four Peaks," produces some of the finest Amethyst in the world. So has Georgia.

Madagascar is producing some top Amethyst.

Yes, Uruguay & Zambia are always thought of first, but by no means are these countries the only places that produce top color Amethyst.

I've had many pure purple Amethyst that are/were quite nice. We have to remember the purple is made of red & blue. The highly saturated medium dark purple Amethyst are quite nice, displaying red & blue flash.

I'm sure there are some nice amethysts from Brazil (although I'm unimpressed with Pau D'Arco material), and elsewhere. I just tend to avoid it because for the most part, it's really not that nice to me (again JMO). Like with any gem, you can find great material even in places where it's not a coveted origin. Likewise, just because a gem comes from a coveted origin, doesn't mean it will be great.

Four Peaks is nice, but I haven't seen any decent material on the market in ages. I think it's long gone, but I could be wrong, and the Georgia material isn't as nice to me, but JMO.

Amethyst really isn't valued based on origin, so just find the nicest NATURAL stone you can find, no matter the location. It's just that some locations have better quality overall.

I like what you said here for the most part, especially the part about sub-par material coming from a good location...As an example, I have a few JXR's cut gems in the cabinet here...I have one that's a 3ct one that I gave $20 for and felt kind of ripped off and I have some I wouldn't take a $200/ct for...Lot's a quality variation, for sure...It's like going out to buy a new car...Buying a Chevy Cruze is totally different than buying a Corvette, even though they are both Chevys...

However, I will disagree with you that origin doesn't effect value...There is a vast difference in prices for rough and cut gems among the various different locations around the world that I would venture to guess is based mostly on how much of a given material is available to buy...

Awesome advice on buying the nicest you can find though...Finding something you are truly happy with makes a beautiful gem all the more stunning...

 

[T L]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

However, I will disagree with you that origin doesn't effect value...There is a vast difference in prices for rough and cut gems among the various different locations around the world that I would venture to guess is based mostly on how much of a given material is available to buy...

Well, I based my comment on the fact that amethyst is a very low priced gem. I haven't bought any in years, but I haven't seen prices above $50/ct for the finest qualities, except from precision lapidaries, who charge a premium for cutting (which doesn't have anything to do with origin). Therefore, based on that, I didn't think origin mattered much. I suppose if you're buying a great deal of rough, then it matters.

 

[mifell]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Amethyst uruguay 11ct

 

[chrono]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

4 Peaks - they had some nice ones years ago but the ones I've seen lately are very dark and obviously colour zoned.
JXR - varying qualities but there are still some nice ones around. They seem to have a premium tacked on lately.
Brazilian - seem flat but I'd love to see/handle a top stone with blue and red flash.
Siberian - are they truly any around these days or are stones from other locations being passed off as Siberian as an excuse for higher pricing?
Uruguay - similar to the old Siberian. I think mostly red flash only.
Zambian - some very nice stuff but I've seen some ordinary ones lately.

The disadvantage with purchasing a true antique piece is the lack of availability. Your options become very limited (most are not of good quality) and there is no guarantee that the stone is natural (synthetics became very popular at one point).

 

[Haywood74]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

4 Peaks - they had some nice ones years ago but the ones I've seen lately are very dark and obviously colour zoned.
JXR - varying qualities but there are still some nice ones around. They seem to have a premium tacked on lately.
Brazilian - seem flat but I'd love to see/handle a top stone with blue and red flash.
Siberian - are they truly any around these days or are stones from other locations being passed off as Siberian as an excuse for higher pricing?
Uruguay - similar to the old Siberian. I think mostly red flash only.
Zambian - some very nice stuff but I've seen some ordinary ones lately.

The disadvantage with purchasing a true antique piece is the lack of availability. Your options become very limited (most are not of good quality) and there is no guarantee that the stone is natural (synthetics became very popular at one point).

Quality observations all the way around...I hadn't thought about the idea of getting put into a box on antique stuff due to lack of availability, but that makes complete sense...Best of luck to the OP on the search, regardless...Sometimes those "impossible" tasks are huge pay-offs when you can find a way to make them happen...

As far as the places you listed here, I think the best price/quality ratio on material goes to Zambians....It seems like you can get some really, really good quality from there without the big premiums of the US mined material...I would tend to think that if I were going to re-create a vintage looking piece, I would probably start searching for a Zambian to work with...Not sure that is what the OP was wanting to do, but it's an option that would open some doors to getting a piece that they like...

 

[T L]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

4 Peaks - they had some nice ones years ago but the ones I've seen lately are very dark and obviously colour zoned.
JXR - varying qualities but there are still some nice ones around. They seem to have a premium tacked on lately.
Brazilian - seem flat but I'd love to see/handle a top stone with blue and red flash.
Siberian - are they truly any around these days or are stones from other locations being passed off as Siberian as an excuse for higher pricing?
Uruguay - similar to the old Siberian. I think mostly red flash only.
Zambian - some very nice stuff but I've seen some ordinary ones lately.

The disadvantage with purchasing a true antique piece is the lack of availability. Your options become very limited (most are not of good quality) and there is no guarantee that the stone is natural (synthetics became very popular at one point).

Even some true antique pieces with amethysts from the period don't contain spectacular examples either.

These are Catherine the Great's amethyst earrings. While they're lovely from a design perspective and certainly historical, and the amethyst are almost certainly true Russian, they're not that high in quality as some of the examples shown in this thread.

 

[dk168]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Not an expert, and I do not have a clue about which country has the best quality amethyst etc...

I believe 4Cs in diamonds can apply to CS such as amethyst, and I would put colour first, cut second, clarity third and weight last.

If anyone is interested, Jeff Davies has quite a few amethyst listed in his eBay store (and yes, I have bought a few).

DK

 

[innerkitten]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

Don't forget Arizona as a source!

 

[dk168]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

I paid over 150USD/ct for a Richard Homer concave cut amethyst, and cannot remember if the origin of the stone was mentioned in the listing or not.

Glamour pic as seen in RH's site that sold it to me:


Amethyst is my birthstone, and this stone is one of my many 50th birthday presents to myself.

DK

 

[ennui]

Re: Amethyst Questions: Siberian, Russian indicators of qual

I've heard questionable things about amethysts from Indonesia; lab-created seems common.

My grandmother's amethyst is a freaky stone -- blue/grey in some lights, vibrant fuchsia in others. If it's fake, I don't want to know.