ALL HELP / OPINIONS WELCOME!! ...EGL Europe Diamond

[JasonZDel]

Greetings,

I''m looking into the following two stones, both with EGL Europe Certs.

(1) 2.01 Ct Si2, H, Tolkowski Ideal cut, with poish good to very good, and symmetry is very good. ($13,200)

(2) 1.72 Ct Si1, H, Ideal Cut, ploish and symmetry both excellent. ($10,900)

I initially wanted a G and I definitely do NOT want to be able to see any inclusions with the naked eye. The EGL Europe certs are what is deterring me. On paper, how do these sound??

Thanks for the input,
Jason

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Jason, the experts need more info to help you. Can you post the crown and pavillion angles or %'s plus the depth and table percentages, also fluorescence if the diamonds have it? Also the girdle thickness . This will enable them to assess the cut quality. I am not too familiar with the accuracy of EGL Europe certs, as for eyeclean that depends on the diamond and opinions, bear in mind these are larger stones and you may see inclusions more easily especially if the grading isn't quite accurate with an S12. Hope this helps.

 

[JasonZDel]

Thanks....Im getting the certs faxed over now, so I should be able to tell you the exact percentages.

Doesnt the "Ideal" or "Tolkowski Ideal" tell you at least what range the Depth and Table are supposed to be in.

Confused, Jason

 

[Lorelei]

It is my understanding that the " Tolkowsky Ideal" is a term used mainly by EGl to describle their " better cut diamonds" which fall into certain dimension parameters. I don't know if it really means very much as to if a diamond is well cut or not, I think you are best going by the expert opinions on the specs you post, also we have an excellent tool called the Holloway Cut Advisor, it is found under tools at the top. You enter the depth, table, crown and pavillion measurements - preferably angles - and it will give you an idea of cut quality. The HCA isn't a sub for doing research but will help weed out bad performers and give you a place to start. I am sorry, I don't know more about the EGL " Ideals" as described, but I would be inclined to do my own research and not rely on a loose description. I don't know what an expert opinion is on this either, but I am sure you will get some. Numbers are very important, they will give you a good chance of getting a beautiful diamond especially in a round, but ultimately it is up to your eyes what YOU find beautiful. Preferences vary a lot with the numbers as to what dictates the best cut, it can be an individual thing. If you can, get out to some vendors and look and ask questions and compare apples to apples as the saying goes and see what combinations work best for you.

 

[JasonZDel]

ok here goes:

2.01 ct
depth- 63.8%
table -55%
pavillion depth -43%
polish -good to very good
symmetry- very good
no flourence
Dimensions 7.96x7.90x5.06mm
girdle- medium, faceted

1.72 ct
depth-61.9%
table-56%
pavillion depth -44%
polish- excellent
symmetry- excellent
no flourence
dimensions 7.70x7.67x4.76 mm
girdle- medium, faceted


any thoughts as to price??????

 

[Lorelei]

Jason, can you post the crown angles or percentages ( probably % as it is an EGL cert) also the culet % or none if applicable? Just need that info to calculate the cut quality. From the info so far, diamond#1 looks too deep, #2 seems better but we need the extra info if you can please. This way the experts will be able to give you their opinions.

 

[JasonZDel]

Here are the specs for the 2.01
depth- 63.8%
table -55%
pavillion depth -43%
polish -good to very good
symmetry- very good
no flourence
Dimensions 7.96x7.90x5.06mm
girdle- medium, faceted
crown height 16%
culet none

Here are the specs for the 1.72
depth-61.9%
table-56%
pavillion depth -44%
polish- excellent
symmetry- excellent
no flourence
dimensions 7.70x7.67x4.76 mm
girdle- medium, faceted
crown height 15%
culet none

 

[Lorelei]

I ran these figures through the HCA for you.

Number 1 looks too deep to me but it scored a 2 on the HCA, which is ok and might be a nice diamond. Number 2 scored a 4.2, good only if price is main criterion. You really need more expert input than I can give, the only thing to do is maybe look at these and see what you think or keep looking. Looking at the prices you could get a similar EGL USA diamond or GIA certed for your budget, which may be better. EGL USA stones are normally priced lower than GIA as GIA is considered to be the industry standard. If you are not in a rush that would be a good thing, it takes time to learn to buy a great diamond, there is a lot of research needed. I hope this helps a bit. Bear in mind too, you say you don''t want to see any inclusions, even if the top is clean and it might not be, there is a fair chance you might see something from the sides, clarity grading is done face up, even with SI1 clarity. A EGL USA or GIA certed diamond might be a safer bet in the long run, also let your vendor know when you say eyeclean you don''t want to see anything at all in the diamond from up close. Diamonds aren''t graded for eyecleanliness but the amount, location, colour, size and type of inclusions. A good vendor will be honest with you and suggest diamonds which might fit the bill.

 

[MissAva]

Though the carat weight is smaller the actual diameter is in range of what you are looking at. 1.733 F/SI2 $12711
Price: $12,711.00
Report: AGS
Shape: A Cut Above H&A
Carat: 1.733
Color: F
Clarity: SI2
Depth: 60.7
Table: 55
Crown Angle: 35
Crown %: 15.7
Pavilion Angle: 40.8
Pavilion %: 43
Girdle: Thin-Sly Thick Faceted
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Culet: Pointed
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 7.81-7.83X4.75

 

[valeria101]

Well, from your posts it seems that you have already considered that the grades on those lab reports may not be as equivalent with other labs' etc...

The one Mata found, sounds like a better option for both color and price, and likely cut too. The price seems to have been pushed down by a speck under the table - if that is as easy to spot in nature as in pictures and if your choices are eye clean remains to be seen, I would think.


THIS H-VS2 doesn't seem to leave anything to be desired cut & clarity wise and it comes at about the same price and size.

Anyway, these two were the only listings with pictures on the 'In-House' list of diamonds above - those 'in-house' listings are stones sellers have at hand and can thus give details about immediately and based on looking at the read thing, as opposed to the same copy of a lab report you may get from some wholesaler... This additional detail gave me more to look at and talk about than the options you mention - of those I do not know much about symmetry (H&A-wise) and clarity. Perhaps the plots on the lab reports would help a little (unless you have faxed copies which miss the details on clarity plots), but you are the only one who has them. Pictures are better at that - sometimes too good at showing inclusions would never be visible in person...

Besides, if there was one such better option with a premium cut, there must be others if you'd want to look further still.


Just my 0.2

Best of luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Good suggestions Matatora and Ana

 

[JasonZDel]

Do you guys think $10,900 is too much for the 1.7....what about $13,200 for the 2 ct. I havent actually seen the stones yet but I will this weekend.

 

[Lorelei]

Jason, do a search using the Pricescope your Diamonds tool at the top of the page, enter the size 1.7 - 2 cts, H colour and SI1 clarity. You will see that many of the diamonds are in the rough price range with GIA certs, EGL USA are less still, no guarantee of course that the diamonds are available or any info on cut quality. It just pays to research and see what else is out there, especially as you are concerned with the EGL Europe cert. Sometimes you have to search and compare for quite a while to find exactly what you are looking for. Did you look at the ones Matatora and Valeria posted for you? What do you think?

 

[JasonZDel]

Yes I did look at the two above (and Thanks for suggestions) but they are a few thousand dollars more. Maybe I''ll take a look at the stones this weekend and see what I think.

 

[Lorelei]

Good luck with that, check them carefully and I hope you find what you are looking for

 

[Kim N]

Jason,

The one that Matatora found is only $12,711 with the Pricescope discount (you'd just tell the vendor you found them on Pricescope). That's below the price of your 2 ct. with the EGL cert, and the size difference in diameter is negligible. The Whiteflash diamond is 7.81x7.83 mm, while yours is 7.96x7.90 mm. Hardly any difference at all, and I'm sure the Whiteflash diamond is better cut.

 

[JasonZDel]

I found this other AGSL certified stone, which , I am told, is eyeclean. The price is $12,700.

Carat weight: 1.88

Cut: Ideal

Color: H

Clarity: SI2

Depth %: 62.3%

Table %: 56%

Symmetry: Ideal

Polish: Ideal

Girdle: Medium to slightly thick, faceted

Culet: Pointed

Fluorescence: None

Measurements: 7.86x7.89x4.91 mm

Crown Angle 34.9 degrees, 15.3%

 

[MissAva]

Pavillion?

 

[JasonZDel]

Pavillion = 43.0%
Pavillion angle = 40.8
Crown = 15.3
Crown angle = 34.9

 

[belle]

hey jason,
can you get an idealscope image on that one?

 

[JasonZDel]

I dont think so, at least not immediately.

 

[belle]

my pause is with the depth. see if you can get an idealscope image, that will help.

 

[MissAva]

What is AGSL? Are you adding an L for Lab? Who is the vendor? What is their return policy? Trade policy? What did the ideal scope shots look like? The acutal pictures of the stone?

 

[JasonZDel]

My appologies, AGS (bluenile refers to it as AGSL), 30 day return----but I hope Ill never need this policy.
How do the numbers come out? Any ideas / recommendations?

 

[Kim N]

Do you know if it''s eye-clean?

It scores a 1.6 on the HCA.

 

[JasonZDel]

Yes it it eyeclean! That was a HUGE concern of mine. Is a 1.6 good? Is it too deep? and If both are true (good score but deep) then what?????

 

[MissAva]

You need to read the tutorials here. Diamond Tutorials I do not know what BlueNiles trade up policy is, do you think your GF might ever want an upgrade?
A 1.6 means that it is within range for being a good diamod, however the HCA is not meant to choose diamonds, merely to exclude them. What pictures has Blue Nile sent you? What is their definition of eye-clean? Have they sent you an IS image yet?