Snarleyow
Rough_Rock
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2008
- Messages
- 25
PSers,
Today (well, Saturday) I had an interesting conversation with the owner of a B&M store in the PA/NJ/DE tri-state area I''m dealing with for getting an E-ring setting. They would natuarally also like to provide the diamond if possible. I brought in the 1.285ct. G SI1 ACA H&A I just received http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idno=1466977 for me to make an apples-to-apples comparison with three stones (I will detail these stones later in a separate new thread) they sourced for me to look at after I was not overly impressed with their selection the last time I was in their store. He made some interesting assertions and I''d like some feedback fom the experts. As a caveat let me say that I am repeating what he said to the best of my recollection. Some of what I say here is paraphrasing. It is always possible that I misunderstood something. Let me also say that he was very friendly and agreeable and he said he didn''t even want to get into all of this until after I''d made my decision. I asked him to go on and he obliged.
1) AGS vs. GIA
He said that GIA certs are really the gold standard and that really good stones are almost always sent to GIA and that they are typically only sent to AGS if the seller is unhappy with the grading report and feels the stone may be borderline on color and/or clarity.
The seller would send the stone to AGS hoping the slightly softer AGS grading will yield a report with the next higher color or clarity, or both. Thus a H SI2 from GIA could possibly get a G or SI1 or both from AGS and therefore be able to be sold for more money.
2) Multiple Certs
The B&M owner contended that years ago AGS used to just grade the cut and really didn''t want to grade color and clarity. He said that he could virtually guarantee that the top quality AGS diamonds I see online had been sent to GIA first. If they were really top notch, he said, the seller would have both GIA and AGS certs. A diamond with only the AGS cert suggests to him that the color and cut grades may be borderline and might get the next lower grade on a GIA cert.
The unspoken suggestion here was that the diamonds from the vendors here on PS that show only AGS certs were most likely also certed by GIA, but this isn''t shown. He said that it was all "just a big game". When he heard last week from the lady at his store that has been working with me that I was coming in for the comparison and the stone I was bringing, he said he went online and checked out the stone I was buying. He said he had tried with his sources to find an AGS graded stone for the comparison that did not also have a GIA cert and was not able to find one. Basically all the good stones either were GIA graded or had certs from both GIA and AGS.
He said he was aware of one stone that had four different certs as the owner attempted to find better grades; I think he said they had two from GIA and two from AGS, one from each done in the US and one from each done in Europe (I had not been aware that AGS and GIA had labs in Europe).
Is there any way to tell if a diamond has been graded by both GIA and AGS if the vendor only shows the AGS cert?
3) How cut is graded
He made the point that the AGS cut grading system was kind of out of date vs. the new GIA cut grading system. He said the new GIA cut grade was actually superior because it took into account how the diamond actually looks, and didn''t rely purely on numbers.
The B&M owner told me that cutters were thrown for a loop by the new GIA cut grade system because GIA does not reveal the details of how they arrive at a grade, at least not so that the cutters can cut a diamond to definitely meet GIA''s top grade.
________________________
I would especially welcome an opinion from Mr. Atlas. I got my Idealscope kit from AGA and am thinking about bringing my WF 1.285ct. G SI1 ACA H&A to his company for an appraisal before I need to make a final decision whether to keep the stone before my 10-day return window expires. The B&M owner suggested it was a nice stone but that it wasn''t a strong SI1. The unspoken suggestion that it might be graded SI2 from GIA; I also now wonder if the G color grade would hold up if graded by GIA. I am concerned. Is it possible to submit it to GIA for a cert?
Thanks in advance to everyone.
Snarleyow
Today (well, Saturday) I had an interesting conversation with the owner of a B&M store in the PA/NJ/DE tri-state area I''m dealing with for getting an E-ring setting. They would natuarally also like to provide the diamond if possible. I brought in the 1.285ct. G SI1 ACA H&A I just received http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idno=1466977 for me to make an apples-to-apples comparison with three stones (I will detail these stones later in a separate new thread) they sourced for me to look at after I was not overly impressed with their selection the last time I was in their store. He made some interesting assertions and I''d like some feedback fom the experts. As a caveat let me say that I am repeating what he said to the best of my recollection. Some of what I say here is paraphrasing. It is always possible that I misunderstood something. Let me also say that he was very friendly and agreeable and he said he didn''t even want to get into all of this until after I''d made my decision. I asked him to go on and he obliged.
1) AGS vs. GIA
He said that GIA certs are really the gold standard and that really good stones are almost always sent to GIA and that they are typically only sent to AGS if the seller is unhappy with the grading report and feels the stone may be borderline on color and/or clarity.
The seller would send the stone to AGS hoping the slightly softer AGS grading will yield a report with the next higher color or clarity, or both. Thus a H SI2 from GIA could possibly get a G or SI1 or both from AGS and therefore be able to be sold for more money.
2) Multiple Certs
The B&M owner contended that years ago AGS used to just grade the cut and really didn''t want to grade color and clarity. He said that he could virtually guarantee that the top quality AGS diamonds I see online had been sent to GIA first. If they were really top notch, he said, the seller would have both GIA and AGS certs. A diamond with only the AGS cert suggests to him that the color and cut grades may be borderline and might get the next lower grade on a GIA cert.
The unspoken suggestion here was that the diamonds from the vendors here on PS that show only AGS certs were most likely also certed by GIA, but this isn''t shown. He said that it was all "just a big game". When he heard last week from the lady at his store that has been working with me that I was coming in for the comparison and the stone I was bringing, he said he went online and checked out the stone I was buying. He said he had tried with his sources to find an AGS graded stone for the comparison that did not also have a GIA cert and was not able to find one. Basically all the good stones either were GIA graded or had certs from both GIA and AGS.
He said he was aware of one stone that had four different certs as the owner attempted to find better grades; I think he said they had two from GIA and two from AGS, one from each done in the US and one from each done in Europe (I had not been aware that AGS and GIA had labs in Europe).
Is there any way to tell if a diamond has been graded by both GIA and AGS if the vendor only shows the AGS cert?
3) How cut is graded
He made the point that the AGS cut grading system was kind of out of date vs. the new GIA cut grading system. He said the new GIA cut grade was actually superior because it took into account how the diamond actually looks, and didn''t rely purely on numbers.
The B&M owner told me that cutters were thrown for a loop by the new GIA cut grade system because GIA does not reveal the details of how they arrive at a grade, at least not so that the cutters can cut a diamond to definitely meet GIA''s top grade.
________________________
I would especially welcome an opinion from Mr. Atlas. I got my Idealscope kit from AGA and am thinking about bringing my WF 1.285ct. G SI1 ACA H&A to his company for an appraisal before I need to make a final decision whether to keep the stone before my 10-day return window expires. The B&M owner suggested it was a nice stone but that it wasn''t a strong SI1. The unspoken suggestion that it might be graded SI2 from GIA; I also now wonder if the G color grade would hold up if graded by GIA. I am concerned. Is it possible to submit it to GIA for a cert?
Thanks in advance to everyone.
Snarleyow