Battle of the Stones: WF ACA vs. B&M

[Snarleyow]

 

[stone-cold11]

 

[honey22]

For me, no contest - the ACA all the way, for the following reasons:

- it's a colour grade higher
- cheaper
- why pay for clarity you can't see anyway?, if eyeclean the SI1 is more than enough
- lifetime upgrade from WF
- knowing you have an ACA

, handpicked by the man himself
- I feel more comfortable with an AGS report over GIA (just personal preference, no need for everyone to get on the GIA bandwagon

)
- ACA is laser inscribed
- I would rather pay less for a branded stone that more for an unbranded stone

ETA - there is no idealscope image to confirm the GIA stone

I wouldn't trust the B&M assessment of the inclusion from the side - are you sure it's not a girdle reflection she's looking at? And of course she is going to bag out your stone when she wants to sell you one of hers. What is WF's take on the eyecleanliness? They WILL be honest with you, no matter what.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/5/2008 5:07:20 AM
Author:Snarleyow

Looking at them all together, the 1.35 H looked at least as white as the 1.26 F. They were all very pretty. I elimiinated the 1.21 H quickly. After a fashion I also eliminated the 1.26 F. Of the B&M stones, I just felt that the 1.35 looked the best.

So it''s down to the 1.35 H or the 1.285 G ACA. The ACA is the best cut to my eye, but the 1.35 is not too far off. This was confirmed with the Idealscope and WF viewer. Size difference was noticeable, but not dramatically so. The 1.35 was whiter, but I think the 1.285 G ACA actually blended in better with the side diamonds on the setting. I think they are all eye-clean, but the B&M lady says she can see an inclusion from the side of the 1.285 G SI1 ACA. This is a concern given the very open nature of the setting: Verragio Lumino ENG-0264 - http://www.goodoldgold.com/setting/VRG-ENG-0264/.

Overall a very close call for me between the B&M''s 1.35 H and WF''s 1.285 G ACA.

Your opinions are invited. Thank you in advance.

Snarleyow.

But could you see it?

When you say the G blended in better with the sidestones, do you think you would notice what you saw (when comparing the two together) when set? In other words, when the H is alone in the setting, do you think it would look ok, or off? I can''t imagine it being too noticeable at just one color grade difference. What color are the side stones?

If they are fairly comperable in performance, to me, it''s probably most a matter of if you would like the ease and comfort of a local dealer. There is certainly something to be said for that, and had I been able to find one with nice stones at nice prices, I would have preferred to buy locally.

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 10/5/2008 7:54:48 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 10/5/2008 5:07:20 AM
Author:Snarleyow

Looking at them all together, the 1.35 H looked at least as white as the 1.26 F. They were all very pretty. I elimiinated the 1.21 H quickly. After a fashion I also eliminated the 1.26 F. Of the B&M stones, I just felt that the 1.35 looked the best.

So it''s down to the 1.35 H or the 1.285 G ACA. The ACA is the best cut to my eye, but the 1.35 is not too far off. This was confirmed with the Idealscope and WF viewer. Size difference was noticeable, but not dramatically so. The 1.35 was whiter, but I think the 1.285 G ACA actually blended in better with the side diamonds on the setting. I think they are all eye-clean, but the B&M lady says she can see an inclusion from the side of the 1.285 G SI1 ACA. This is a concern given the very open nature of the setting: Verragio Lumino ENG-0264 - http://www.goodoldgold.com/setting/VRG-ENG-0264/.

Overall a very close call for me between the B&M''s 1.35 H and WF''s 1.285 G ACA.

Your opinions are invited. Thank you in advance.

Snarleyow.

But could you see it?

When you say the G blended in better with the sidestones, do you think you would notice what you saw (when comparing the two together) when set? In other words, when the H is alone in the setting, do you think it would look ok, or off? I can''t imagine it being too noticeable at just one color grade difference. What color are the side stones?

If they are fairly comperable in performance, to me, it''s probably most a matter of if you would like the ease and comfort of a local dealer. There is certainly something to be said for that, and had I been able to find one with nice stones at nice prices, I would have preferred to buy locally.

I think the most important question here, given the close cut, color and size, is whether your future wife can see any inclusions from the side? I know that would drive me bananas. I can see inclusions that most sales clerks cannot (of course, that is when they are trying to sell me their diamond!), and my 19 year old daughter puts everyone to shame. Everyone is different. There have been other threads here where the WF definition of eye-clean was from the top-down view only. Since you have the stone, take a careful look at it.

 

[WinkHPD]

Just curious, is this the same retailer you talk about in your other thread?

If so, you know my opinion, not based at all on the stones, but on the questionable knowledge of the retailer. If this is a different retailer, then please disregard this post.

Wink

 

[MichelleCarmen]

If you can see the inclusion in the ACA, I''d return it and instead purchase the B&M stone. The H is bigger and it''s SO close in price. We''re only talking about $130 more so I cannot even imagine why that would impact your decision. If you cannot see anything from the side view, then the ACA would be worth keeping.

 

[Snarleyow]

Date: 10/5/2008 6:30:47 AM
Author: honey22
For me, no contest - the ACA all the way, for the following reasons:

- it''s a colour grade higher
- cheaper
- why pay for clarity you can''t see anyway?, if eyeclean the SI1 is more than enough

ETA - there is no idealscope image to confirm the GIA stone

I wouldn''t trust the B&M assessment of the inclusion from the side - are you sure it''s not a girdle reflection she''s looking at? And of course she is going to bag out your stone when she wants to sell you one of hers. What is WF''s take on the eyecleanliness? They WILL be honest with you, no matter what.

Thanks to everyone for sharing.

I have my own 10x Idealscope, so I was able to view the GIA stone with it, and also with the WF viewer.

WF said it was eye clean, and from the table it is. I was able to see the two inclusions from the side just below the girdle. I needed my 10x loupe to find them, but once I did I was able to make them out, barely, with the unaided eye. They are pretty close together and could probably be somewhat hiiden by a prong once the stone is mounted in the setting: http://www.goodoldgold.com/show.php?image=ENG-0264__l.jpg
Of course, hopefully Verragio would set the stone so that the H&A pattern is straight up and not cocked at an angle, which may or may not be ideal for hiding the inclusions.
I honestly doubt my GF would ever see them, but I''m not 100% certain.

 

[Snarleyow]

Date: 10/5/2008 7:54:48 AM
Author: Ellen

When you say the G blended in better with the sidestones, do you think you would notice what you saw (when comparing the two together) when set? In other words, when the H is alone in the setting, do you think it would look ok, or off? I can''t imagine it being too noticeable at just one color grade difference. What color are the side stones?

If they are fairly comperable in performance, to me, it''s probably most a matter of if you would like the ease and comfort of a local dealer. There is certainly something to be said for that, and had I been able to find one with nice stones at nice prices, I would have preferred to buy locally.

The H looked brighter than the G due to the medium fluorescence.
The G overall just looked slightly more "in tune" with the side diamonds when laid loose in the setting. It''s possible the H stone''s larger size may have been a factor too, I''m not sure.
The dealer tells me Verragio uses F/G VS1/2 diamonds as side diamonds in their settings.

 

[Snarleyow]

Date: 10/5/2008 12:22:23 PM
Author: Wink
Just curious, is this the same retailer you talk about in your other thread?

If so, you know my opinion, not based at all on the stones, but on the questionable knowledge of the retailer. If this is a different retailer, then please disregard this post.

Wink

Yes, Wink, it is.
I certainly have my questions re: them, especially after reading the responses from you and others to my other post about the B&M owner''s views.
However, I am very comfortable with the lady at his store I''ve been dealing with, and the price for the setting was the best I could find, and by a significant amount.

 

[RichDD]

Snarley, I had a very similar experience as you last Friday (WF ACA vs B&M, seen here). Interestingly, my local jeweler had similar arguments about AGS vs GIA (though not as extreme - he often sends stones to both). Regardless, I think jewelers go with what is most familiar to them. My B&M people are all GIA graduates, and so were trained to appreciate the rigors of GIA grading, not AGS. The same can be found in any profession. Even the surgeon at your local hospital will practice the techniques he learned in his training, even if they are outdated. It's rare to find an old dog learning new tricks, so dont worry too much.

I am ultimately deciding to go with my B&M, because they were able to step up to the challenge and provide a similar stone at a great price, and I am rewarding them for their effort. There is still something to be said for having someone close by where I can take the ring for free cleanings, etc.

 

[Snarleyow]

 

[Ellen]

Congrats! Can''t wait to see the finished product!

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 10/6/2008 6:12:26 AM
Author: Snarleyow

Date: 10/5/2008 12:22:23 PM
Author: Wink
Just curious, is this the same retailer you talk about in your other thread?

If so, you know my opinion, not based at all on the stones, but on the questionable knowledge of the retailer. If this is a different retailer, then please disregard this post.

Wink

Yes, Wink, it is.
I certainly have my questions re: them, especially after reading the responses from you and others to my other post about the B&M owner's views.
However, I am very comfortable with the lady at his store I've been dealing with, and the price for the setting was the best I could find, and by a significant amount.

Wow. The man is totally incompetent or a liar or both and yet you give him your money.

You mention a name brand ring that he will sell you for much less than any one else, which also means his word is no good as those items have a minimum selling price that the vendors are required by the manufacturer to honor.

Count on needing to watch your back with this one. He is lieing to you about labs, he is lieing to the manufacturer whose minimum price he promised to honor so you know for sure not to trust him.

Not an environment I would shop in, but it is your money.

Good luck with him, and good luck getting what you are supposed to be getting. I wish you well, but I fear for you actually getting what you think you are getting.

For those wondering what I am talking about there is another thread here somewhere that discusses the total fabrications and ridicules lies that this "jeweler" used to try to make the diamond sale.

Wink, who is disappointed that jewelers this incompetant and venal are allowed to exist and prosper.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 10/7/2008 8:42:23 AM
Author: Wink


Wow. The man is totally incompetent or a liar or both and yet you give him your money.

You mention a name brand ring that he will sell you for much less than any one else, which also means his word is no good as those items have a minimum selling price that the vendors are required by the manufacturer to honor.

Count on needing to watch your back with this one. He is lieing to you about labs, he is lieing to the manufacturer whose minimum price he promised to honor so you know for sure not to trust him.

Not an environment I would shop in, but it is your money.

Good luck with him, and good luck getting what you are supposed to be getting. I wish you well, but I fear for you actually getting what you think you are getting.

For those wondering what I am talking about there is another thread here somewhere that discusses the total fabrications and ridicules lies that this ''jeweler'' used to try to make the diamond sale.

Wink, who is disappointed that jewelers this incompetant and venal are allowed to exist and prosper.

Wink, I went in search of after your first question/comment. You can lead a horse to water....

 

[WinkHPD]

Here is the other thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-vs-gia-multiple-certs-how-cut-is-graded.96715/

 

[Snarleyow]

Wow. The man is totally incompetent or a liar or both and yet you give him your money.

You mention a name brand ring that he will sell you for much less than any one else, which also means his word is no good as those items have a minimum selling price that the vendors are required by the manufacturer to honor.

Count on needing to watch your back with this one. He is lieing to you about labs, he is lieing to the manufacturer whose minimum price he promised to honor so you know for sure not to trust him.

Not an environment I would shop in, but it is your money.

Good luck with him, and good luck getting what you are supposed to be getting. I wish you well, but I fear for you actually getting what you think you are getting.

For those wondering what I am talking about there is another thread here somewhere that discusses the total fabrications and ridicules lies that this ''jeweler'' used to try to make the diamond sale.

Wink, who is disappointed that jewelers this incompetant and venal are allowed to exist and prosper.

Thanks, Wink. I appreciate your advice to be cautious. I will be careful to make sure what I get back is what I ordered, and that it is still my diamond. I will also get the completed ring appraised once I get it. Does anyone know of a good appraiser in the Philadelphia area? If the stone was loose, I''d use AGA, but I don''t think they appraise completed rings.

I am curious about this minimum price stuff. The prices I got for the settings were all over the map. For example, some quoted the retail price from Verragio. Some quoted a significant % off the official retail price. So what is the minimum price Verragio requires relative to their retail price? 90%? 80%? Unless someone is willing to provide that info, neither you nor I has any basis to say the B&M store is violating their agreement with Verragio. I would be happy to disclose who quoted what once I know what the minimum % or $ from Verragio is so I can show who did and did not go below that, if any of them did.

Snarleyow