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AGS send away...

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jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
OK....

I am going to send my diamond away to get AGS certified. Since AGS will not let the general population send directly to their labs I have to go through an AGS certified jeweler.

Since I just bought the diamond I do not have any insurance on it yet.

My question is, how do I make sure what I give the jeweler is what I give back and how do I protect myself in the event of tragedy like a diamond swap, lost in the mail or a straight up theft by the jeweler.

I called all sorts of Jewelers and got all sorts of quotes to get and AGS DQD (Diamond Quality Document) they ranged from $400 to $225. I am going with the guy that costs the least (obviously) but I just want to know how to protect myself.
 

T

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 9, 2002
Messages
9
Do u have to have an AGS cert? If not, then check with Dave Atlas (oldminer). His AGA cert for round diamond is even tougher than AGS's "0" cut :) He just recently helped me appraised my AGS certified round diamond:love:
His info and other appraiser's info can be found at the following:

Dave Atlas
www.gemappraisers.com
www.pricescope.com/appraiser.asp

Hope that helps.
-T
 

jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
No, i do not have an AGS cert already. That is why i am sending my stone away to get one.

I want a cert that is well respected industry wide so no matter where or when i endup having to sell the diamond or upgrade it i will have a cert that everyone knows of. The leaves me two choices GIA and AGS.

Since i want the measurments documented i have chosed AGS.

Plus, if i am spending hundreds of dollars to get a cert i might as well make sure it is a GIA or and AGS cert, rather than another one.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,327
1. The trust issue:
AGS only accept very trustworthy jewelers as members. No one with a good reputation is going to be bothered switching your diamond.
2. If your diamond is going to AGS then you may not want to have it certified for cut quality if it is less than AGS 0 because it will be worth less than the same graded GIA cert.

3. If you are going to trade up the stone you may not need a cert at all.
 

jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
Hmmm... I never thought of the CUT lowering the value if it is not AGS 0.

I know it is not and AGS 0 but I know that it scores around a 1.8 in the HCA.

So, do you think it would be better to have it GIA certified and then just get a sarin report from someone so I can have the measurements documented?

What happens when GIA starts to score CUT in a few years, will my GIA cert then be obsolete?
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Sep 3, 2000
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6,398
If you already own the diamond, there is really not much need to spend $225 or more for grading it. No matter what it grades, the diamond will still be the one you own and love. A grading report is much more important before the purchase.

I don't charge as much as AGS does. Then again, my lab is not the AGS lab, but we do pretty much all the same tricks with similar or identical equipment and gemologist -appraisers on staff. In fact, since we also do the value part, we actually do more than AGS or GIA does.

We can readily tell you what the AGS cut grade is although we use the AGA Cut Class system on our reports.

Any jeweler can send a diamond to AGS for a grading report. You do not have to be a member of AGS to use their lab. That's a whole different topic, however.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,327
Yes it will, just as a 3 year old GIA certificate on a Fancy Intense yellow diamond is worth nothing because they may have missed the HTHP treatment a few years ago.

But an AGS 3 or 4 cert would be a waste of money.
If it scores well on HCA why not wait until you want to sell / trade up?
 

jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
The reason i want to get the diamond AGS or GIA certed is because it hopefully will increase the value of the diamond if it achieves that same score it has on it's EGL cert.

To me it is worth it because it will also give me piece of mind.

Now it could also work the opposite way, and GIA will get it a score that is worse than the EGL cert.

I guess i just want a second, more respected, opinion and if i am going to pay for it, it might as well be AGS or GIA.

If the AGS or GIA cert came back the same as the EGL i would just "toss" that EGL cert away and i would have a GIA or AGS certed diamond, that would be worth more.

But, now that knowing that an AGS cut other than 0 will lower the value i am thinking i should get it GIA certed. Would it lower that value if the cut was AGS 1 or AGS 2?

Here is a link to what EGL cert.
http://www.eglusa.com/results.htm
Enter this cert number: 72078906D
I have the SARIN numbers somewhere and that is how it scores better in the HCA. Here they are. It should be an AGS 1 cut.
Crown Angle -34 degrees
Pavilion Angle - 41 degrees
Culet - 0.4%
Girdle - 1.4%

I am hoping that the diamond would come back from GIA or AGS at least the same rating, then that would set my mind at ease and at the same time make the value of the diamond do up.

If it came back worse, then i would know exactly what i have and i would make sure the jeweler knew my frustration and depending on how bad it came back i might exercise my return policy.
 

jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
So i guess my next question here is ...

Would it be bad if i sent it to AGS and it came back a 1 or a 2.

I know it is not a 0, but i think it would come back a 1.

Let me know what you all think.

I was supposed to send it Wednesday, but now i am having second thoughts as to what i should do.

GIA? AGS? Nothing?
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,398
You said:

"The reason i want to get the diamond AGS or GIA certed is because it hopefully will increase the value of the diamond if it achieves that same score it has on it's EGL cert."

The possibility of you being able to obtain an identical grade is quite low. The diamond has no different value to expert dealers with or without a grading paper. Kidding yourself is less costly than spending $200 or more just to feel dissapointed. If the stone graded exactly like it has already been graded, then fine, but it is still the same stone.

I'd say you have a worse chance of becoming happy with the result of a further report than by going to Las Vegas and putting your money in slot machines where you just might come out ahead after a couple of hours. While not likely to happen, you beat the odds occasionally.

While the AGS 0 holds a little niche in desireability, you will find an AGS 1 is not very different in price from most AGS 2 or AGS 3 stones. The one being pursued by marketing people and the public is the AGS 0 cut type.
 

jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
If "The diamond has no different value to expert dealers with or without a grading paper."

Then why do the prices of diamonds that are very similiar in grading from EGL and say AGS or GIA differ so much in price?

If "The diamond has no different value to expert dealers with or without a grading paper."

Why even bother with certs? or why bother saying one Lab is better or more respected than the other?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,327
The standard used today for AGS 0 will change in the future, nothing is a surer bet.
Your stone will likely be a future AGS 0 for proportions (we do not know the table size?) but will not make it for symmetry and / or polish (otherwise the cutter would have sent it there and sold the diamond for more - they are not silly people you know).

So if you ever want to sell it, stick with the cert you have because it is probably the most value adding.

if you want to know for the sake of knowing, then save some money and send it to Dave for a verbal :)
 

jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
I understand what you all are saying ... but if, just if, it were to come back the same as it is now, then i lose a change of getting it certed by GIA or AGS.

Which will increase the value of the diamond, as you just reffered to in your post, ("otherwise the cutter would have sent it there and sold the diamond for more")

Where i am coming from on this is. If the diamond is what the EGL cert says it is i am a happy camper, but if according to a Lab held in a higher respect it is not, then i don't feel that i bought was i was told it was. I would like a second opinion of one of the top 2 labs, and i am willing to pay for it. If i comes back the same i got what i wanted. If it comes back worse then i have some thinking to do.

I guess when I spend this much money i can't just accept the fact that it might not actually be scored accuratley. As said many times before in this forum, EGL is a bit looser in thier grading of color etc....

I am mostly concerned about the clarity of this stone. I am very happy with everything else. Even if the color went down one step i would be happy.

Granted at that point i probably would have paid to much for it (if it changed from a D to an E on the cert).

I guess i am just being way to picky, but i can't help to be when spent this much money.

I wanted to get it right the first time, and not have to settle for a smaller lower quality stone, then upgrade in 5 or 10 years.

But i now feel that it may not be good enough.

You can check out the rest of the measurments if you go to the URL posted in one of my previous posts and enter the EGL cert number in there.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
I'm with Cut nut...send it to Dave or whomever if you want a second opinion. The EGL cert may hold up - it may not. I don't see the benefit to getting another cert. If you are planning on trading up in the future (I'm assuming not near future), then the jeweler who you may be dealing with probably doesn't care about the cert. If you are planning on selling on your own, you can make the decision to get it certed then. Should you sell it on your own, as a possible purchaser, I would look at the EGL cert/ 2 nd opinion appraisal..........then get my own appraisal. The certs you have would mean nothing to me. They are old and parameters change.

At the end of the day, either you are pleased with the stone or not. I'm no expert; but grading can be subjective and while a good idea as to what stones to dis, the paper specs have little to do with the stone. On paper, I probably would have not given my stone a second thought....when truly looking at the final stats. I color SI2 Strong blue fluor.

I'm happy that the EGL cert did not mention that the Med. Blue was actually more towards strong...and although the stone is SI2 (I was looking for no more than SI1) the flaws are the right kind in the right places. All in all, I'm glad for the EGL cert ...and saved some money to boot.
 

jlauer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
29
Hmmm.....

I think i am slowly starting to have a change of mind.....

Ok, i need to think about this some more....

I see the points you make about geting it certed in the future.
 
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