AGS scintillation report ??? and Ritani diamonds

[Lula]

I just learned about this, so if this has been discussed on RT before, please direct me to the correct thread.

http://www.agslab.com/products-scintillation-report.php
http://www.ritani.com/about-us/press-release/20121205

This seems to be a grading service exclusive to Ritani. But my question is, if AGS developed this metric, why isn't it available to other vendors? For AGS to offer this as a proprietary service rather than offer it to all (paying) customers makes me question AGS's objectivity as a lab. Or am I reading too much into this? Inquiring minds...

 

[Karl_K]

Its another crazy report from AGS to dilute their brand.
I don't know why they keep shooting themselves in the foot with stuff like this.

 

[Lula]

Its another crazy report from AGS to dilute their brand.
I don't know why they keep shooting themselves in the foot with stuff like this.

Thanks, Karl. I agree with you that AGS appears to be shooting themselves in the foot. Seems like a short-sighted move on their part. Ritani must have offered them a boatload of cash.

 

[yssie]

Its another crazy report from AGS to dilute their brand.
I don't know why they keep shooting themselves in the foot with stuff like this.

Thanks, Karl. I agree with you that AGS appears to be shooting themselves in the foot. Seems like a short-sighted move on their part. Ritani must have offered them a boatload of cash.

What's Wrong With AGS Lab Part II.
Here's Part I: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whats-wrong-with-ags-lab.171711/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/whats-wrong-with-ags-lab.171711/[/URL]

I can see people getting very confused by this, TBH. This isn't exactly something that can be answered with "more of everything is always better!!!" I do like the actual image of the stone on the (paper, GIA!) report, and I'd prefer a plain old wireframe if they must put the primary refraction patterning on there - it would be a lot clearer.

 

[Karl_K]

Besides of the question of doing reports for only a specific customer and how biased that makes them appear.

These fire maps are based on scanner data and as we have seen with the computer generated images compared to real images they do not match that well a lot of the time.
aka: gigo - garbage in-garbage out.
Then there are problems with the metric themselves.
The size of the flashes by itself is meaningless without considering shape and orientation.

 

[diamonds-are-friends]

any idea how much the scintillation report would cost for a 1 carat diamond?

 

[denverappraiser]

Besides of the question of doing reports for only a specific customer and how biased that makes them appear.

I've never seen one of these and I don't know any more about this service than anyone else but it doesn't actually seem to be limited to Ritani, they're just the ones plugging it at the moment.

This from the 'more information' portion of the webstite:

"The AGS Lab’s Scintillation Report is a limited-production addendum report available exclusively with the RITANI Reserve Program, AGS Diamond Quality® Document or Gemological Institute of America (GIA®) Diamond Grading Report."

I haven't a hint what 'limited-production' means but the rest suggests that it's available as an add-on for clients with a AGS-DQD or a GIA-DQR. That's nearly everybody, not just Ritani.

That said, I don't actually have a problem with specialty reports designed and prepared for specific clients of the lab. Labs do that sort of thing all the time. Obviously it needs to be done with integrity but it doesn't strike me as a problem in concept.

 

[Karl_K]

That said, I don't actually have a problem with specialty reports designed and prepared for specific clients of the lab. Labs do that sort of thing all the time. Obviously it needs to be done with integrity but it doesn't strike me as a problem in concept.

AGS will need to clarify availability but its pretty clear on the first page.

Both as a tiny vendor and and as a consumer I have a problem with a lab doing special favors for specific clients.

As a tiny vendor it does not make me happy when a service is not available to me but is to a competitor just because they have more money from a party that I hire in the first place because they are supposed to be independent and impartial.

As a consumer I have a problem with it because it gives the appearance that they favor one client for money.

Even if it turns out that they do offer it to others that it says what it does on the website this holds true.
They are clearly showing favor to one client over others.

 

[denverappraiser]

They definitely offer customized services to their customers, and I presume this has to do with being paid to do so. They offer cut grading on proprietary cuts for example. They offer their ‘certificate’ service to retail AGS members only. I’m continuously annoyed that this isn’t available to ICGA or even supplier members but that’s AGS policy and AGS pushed it through as AGSL policy. As irritating as it is, I’m not so sure it’s bad. The industry doesn’t need a clone of GIA. They’re mostly doing their job pretty well. ‘Boutique’ sorts of services where clients can hire a top shelf lab to do what THEY want done rather entirely limited to what some board of governors thinks is important strikes me as having merit. The vast majority of the criticism of GIA, at least from the consumer side, has to do with them ‘selling out’ to the industry, where ‘the industry’ is some nebulous and undisclosed interest that’s presumably in conflict with consumer’s best interest. This is actually improved if the identity of the client, in this case Ritani, is inherently part of the service. Assuming this is indeed a Ritani only service, I definitely think their name should appear on the report itself, and it should be clearly labeled as such but the concept of a specialty one-client service is just fine. I guess we disagree. If it’s not a Ritani only service then there’s even less issue. They’re promoting it, presumably because they have some stones that look good with it. So? That’s what EVERYBODY does. That’s the reason people submit stones to AGSL.

Is it useful? I haven’t a clue, but I will look into it. I’ve never seen the report before. I don’t know what’s being measured and I don’t know what the scale is. I"ve talked to some of the staff about the underlying research and I do think they've made some clever observations but I had no idea this was even in development. That leaves me very little to discuss in terms of the service itself. It might be great, it might be pure puffery. It deserves consideration. AGSL has a good history of doing things pretty well after all.

 

[Lula]

Thanks for your responses, Neil, Karl, and Yssie. I can't speak to the accuracy or usefulness of the metrics underlying this new report; however, as a consumer and a consumer advocate, I can speak to the ethics -- as I perceive them, given the limited information available from AGS at this point -- of this new report. And, in my opinion, this doesn't pass the smell test. Perhaps more information will be presented in Tucson.

 

[denverappraiser]

I spoke briefly with the folks at AGSL. At the moment this report is only available through Ritani. The research behind it is an ongoing part of AGSL's investigations into what makes one diamond more attractive than another. It's fairly likely that this will appear as part of their general offerings either as a stand alone report, as a component in some other product or both but, for now, Ritani has an exclusive deal.

I don't know if Ritani, through their dealers, will do it on stones other than their own brand but I sort of doubt it.

I still don't understand the metric but I've asked for more info. I'll post more if and when I learn something.

 

[Karl_K]

I spoke briefly with the folks at AGSL. At the moment this report is only available through Ritani.

Thanks Neil for looking into it.
I get that they are trying to monetize the R&D research they spent a lot of money doing, but in my opinion this is the wrong way to go about it.

 

[Karl_K]

Here is a thread from 2007 with some basic info on the research they were doing:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/agsl-scintillation-studies.63707/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/agsl-scintillation-studies.63707/[/URL]