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AGS rated F/SI1 gets appraised as a F G H/VVS1 ???

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shinyside

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2003
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14
A reputable appraiser (off the site list) used GIA ratings to come up with a FGH/VVS1 on my new acquisition, while my AGS cert shows a F/SI1. Of course I''m not complaining about it; but does this happen often? A graduate gemnologist from another shop across town couldn''t find any inclusions at 10x or 25x either.

Cool beans,
SS
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
What exactly is a FGH?

Do you have the plot? Can you locate the stones with the plot in front of you? A jeweler with a 25x mag should be able to find inclusions even in a VVS stone if they are practiced.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
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4,924
Doesn't sound right.

There's a huge difference between an SI1 and VVS1.

You either don't have an SI1 or don't have a VVS1, one of the two.

Pretty big spread on the color too. Was the stone mounted when the appraiser looked at it? A two grade spread on a mounted stone is reasonable, but a three grade spread is stretching it, in my opinion.

If the stone was loose, there should be no spread.
 

shinyside

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2003
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14
I've attached the cert, you'll have to blow it up with a image viewer probably to see the (1) inclusion.

The diamond was appraised as a loose stone by an experienced GG. He said with certainty that it was G in color, but mentioned something about GIA telling him to report it as an F/G/H spread. As you see in the cert, it's an F/SI1, but the appraiser, after seeing the cert, said he'd be hard pressed to even give it a VVS2 and that AGS really busted my chops with an SI1. BTW, he mapped the inclusion at the same area as AGS did, but only made a period, without any extension or feather marks.

Another jeweler/retailer whom I brought the diamond to when I was shopping it against other diamonds couldn't find the inclusion with a 10x loope, although I admit I didn't trust this guy much. I can't find anything with my 10x, looked until my head hurt, but that doesn't say much


SS

cert.gif
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Thats interesting...its so hard to see that inclusion mapped on the plot even! Unless it doesn't show up well in the scan?

I notice that its an A Cut Above stone, did you purchase from WhiteFlash then? What do they say about the clarity grade...wonder if they had notes on the stone that may have said it looked better than SI1 to them?

Very interesting indeed. AGS is pretty strict...its interesting that your appraiser says your stone is a G instead of an F...and that its VVS1 instead of SI1...but I guess you made out well. There should be no visual difference between an F and G and definitely one between SI1 and VVS but not if it was eye clean to begin with. Kind of fun I suppose?

Don't fret about not being able to see the inclusion with 10x...I have a VS1 and I couldn't find mine either, it was very light feathering along the edge of the girdle and a tiny pinpoint somewhere off the table. Strict VS1 grading in my opinion...as the feathering was set next to a prong and I can hardly find it even knowing where it is with a 10x loupe. So I've just got the pinpoint floating around!

Curious!
 

optimized

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2002
Messages
306
That is very curious, indeed!

While circumstances may not allow it, if I had purchased the stone I would want to have another lab's opinion. What's the feasibility of having the GIA lab grade the diamond? While it might delay proposal plans, I would be busting to know the "true" grade, and while by all accounts GIA shouldn't really be "more accurate" than AGS, in my mind their grade would override the gemologist's assessment and set the final grade in my mind.

Interesting the differences of opinion that can be found when something as subjective as grading the impact of inclusions is being done. Hmm....

-Tim
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
That's one heckuva clean looking SI1, Shiny.

My guess would be that the inclusion shown just inside the table must be a dark inclusion. If it was light, the stone probably would have graded a VS2. Or if it was dark and in the bezel area, VS2. Or if light and in the bezel area, VS1.

I would place my bet on the SI1 as being the correct grade though, Shiny. You can probably count on that F color as well.

Congratulations.
 

shinyside

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
14
Makes for an interesting mental exercise
I love the stone either way.

However, I'm sure this is the cleanest SI1 I've ever seen. In my head, that makes it a VS
. I could definitely pick out the color difference between my stone and an H, so it's probably an F.

Now I'm curious... whether my appraised stone will be over-insured as a G/VVS1, which is a couple thousand more than its current stats. I guess if that's what it needs to be replaced with, in case GEICO/Traveler's won't replace the stone for an ACA stone?

I'll post pics when the E-ring is set, its going to be gorgeous


SS
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I would get it insured for what the AGS cert says--unless the clarity means more to you than the color jump..in which case G VVS would make more sense in case you need to have it replaced. You should also be sure they replace it with a like stone, eg ACA or similar if that is your request.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
As Rich noted, that inclusion must be dark.
I'm pretty sure the stone isn't VVS 1 or VVS 2, cause this would be a VERY VERY BAD negligence of AGSL and most probably the dealer would have tried to fight the grade. If you still are curious, I suggest you to send to the GIA report, or have AGS recheck the clarity grade.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
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3,441
Voting for a dark colored inclusion as well. I saw a GIA graded I1 with a larger, dark colored inclusion in the about same area. Due to the location it was not visible head on. Even viewing from the side, I had to find the right angle to even see it at 10x.

Just curious, but did your appraiser use a colorimeter to confirm the color rating? Or did they just use Master Diamonds. The diamond could be a "low F" by the colorimeter and "look" like a G when compared to Master diamonds.
 

shinyside

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 20, 2003
Messages
14
He said he used a "machine." I didn't ask him what machine?
You know, I can almost imagine the feather when I look at it under blue/green light with my opthalmoscope. Hehee, ok so I was having fun.

Anybody with experience getting it rechecked by AGS? I wonder how long that might take.

SS
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
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2,530
They are very fast. Less than one week. But they accept stones only from someone who's in the trade... You have to ask to a jeweler...
 
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