AGS ASET Info and Photos from JCK

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 6/10/2005 6:57:30 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 6/10/2005 6:15:35 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Since we are digressing Marty, would you like to discuss this stone I saw today in the Smitsonian?
If you want to then we will start another thread - because already we are diverting this one.

The stone appeared even more to the eye than to the camera to have second or third order dispersion colors. It had ''muddy dispersion''.
I never saw it before?

But i think I know why.

Gary: Move the question and picture to the Fire Performance Scope thread.. It is a complicated issue, and depends on the lighting environment and the cut of the stone, plus a lot of other factors..

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/can-dispersion-colors-be-muddy.29758/ is the link to the new thread Marty and others

 

[Rhino]

Date: 6/10/2005 9:16:50 AM
Author: Serg
.

Serg... are those the default angles in DiamCalc with the exception of pavilion mains?

 

[Serg]

Hi, Rhino

Yes.
see attachment

 

[denverappraiser]

I agree that there is good information in these pictures. I’m just wishing to be sure that we are both seeing all the good info and that we are not adding something that isn’t there just because we wish it were so. I think this was Michael’s primary point. It’s important to go through this early on because we are likely to start seeing these images fairly soon and won’t know the details of how they were taken. If the appearance of a reflection being pink or green is going to be considered important information, than the margin for error is also important.

Marty,
The tool measures 37mm from the opening of the cone to the top of the eyehole.
The opening of the cone is 35mm. The green/pink line is 14mm from the rim measured on the outside line.
The blue portion is 16mm in diameter.
The tabletop model presumably has the same proportions and the cone is about 125mm in diameter at the opening although I don’t have one to measure.
Garry,
My 2mm number was including the thickness of the plate of glass. The last set of pics I took was with a fairly thin piece but I had to pick a number. I agree that we could make this smaller and by using a tool similar to your photo plates we can reduce the variation the other direction considerably as well if it turns out to be an important issue.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 6/12/2005 12:01:55 PM
Author: denverappraiser

If the appearance of a reflection being pink or green is going to be considered important information, than the margin for error is also important.

Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ISA NAJA

Independent Appraisals in Denver

I want to reiterate, the pink or green tabel reflection in itself is NOT important, it merely gives us information of the approximate pavilion angle. The change occurs well ABOVE the minimim angle acceptable for ideal cutting so please let us not loose sight of the fact that it was only provided to us as an interesting bit of mathmatical trivia. If we try to turn this in to a good stone bad stone decider we will be falling into a very bad trap!

I was told, but have not confirmed as I am no longer welcome on Diamond Talk that Gilbert is attempting to make AGS''s use of this tool a sign that they have "sold out" and that GIA is to be commended for their sticking to their guns and not presenting any solid information yet as to what their new grading system will be. Since almost none of those of us who find such reasoning specious are allowed to post on DT there will likely be little discussion of this mistatement of truth allowed. How unfortunate for those who get their information only from DT where the "facts" are more what the advertisers wish than what the truth may actually be. How fortunate for those seeking more accurate knowledge that Leonid allows active and passionate discussion of sometimes controversial research.

Personally I am extremely pleased that AGS has come forward with such a simple device that tells so much, and that they have gone to such lengths to make their findings so transparent. They WANT the public as well as the trade to know these things that are determining their proformance grading and why. (There is a LOT more there than just the ASET tool, it is only part of the story, but an important one for SHOWING nearly instantly what is happening in the stone.)

If what I am seeing as a possible outcome of this type of hide the facts type game happens I see the AGS cert becoming the favorite of informed consumers and vendors with nothing to hide and the GIA cert becoming the favorite of those who wish to decry the effects of the fantastic cutting of vendors like EightStar, Infinity, and White Flash so that they can sell stones cut to save more weight at the cost of superior proformance. There are many in the trade who will opt for this if given the opportunity, and the public, by and large underinformed or missinformed who will the victims of such a policy.

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that what ever system that the GIA eventually unwraps will be equal in its transparency and value as that of AGS.

Wink

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/12/2005 2:26:29 PM
Author: Wink

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that what ever system that the GIA eventually unwraps will be equal in its transparency and value as that of AGS.


Wink

Well said Wink.
The AGS system has proven itself to me by them applying the same system to princess cuts and the outcome knocks your socks off.
With rounds it is less revolutionary because several cutters are already cutting awesome diamonds for beauty but it is a welcome move
to help evolve cut standards and research.
With rounds its more evolutionary then with the princess cuts.
The one thing Id like to see them do better is communicate directly with the consumers in a better manner.
But even at that they are doing far more than creating confusion and buzz which is all GIA has done. My opinion of course.

 

[Rhino]

Thanks Serg,

One other question. Is that with 30 degree obscuration? Did ya''ll get my email request I sent over yesterday?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 6/12/2005 3:57:51 PM
Author: strmrdr

Well said Wink.
The AGS system has proven itself to me by them applying the same system to princess cuts and the outcome knocks your socks off.
With rounds it is less revolutionary because several cutters are already cutting awesome diamonds for beauty but it is a welcome move
to help evolve cut standards and research.
With rounds its more evolutionary then with the princess cuts.

You are absolutely right, Storm.

The top-cuts of rounds are already at such a high level, that the new AGS-system has no effect on them. But indeed, the value of the AGS-system is indeed proven by how it affected the performance of princess-cuts, cut according to their system. It clearly proves the theory behind the grading system.

Live long,

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 6/12/2005 3:57:51 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/12/2005 2:26:29 PM
Author: Wink

I sincerely hope that I am wrong and that what ever system that the GIA eventually unwraps will be equal in its transparency and value as that of AGS.


Wink

Well said Wink.
The AGS system has proven itself to me by them applying the same system to princess cuts and the outcome knocks your socks off.
With rounds it is less revolutionary because several cutters are already cutting awesome diamonds for beauty but it is a welcome move
to help evolve cut standards and research.
With rounds its more evolutionary then with the princess cuts.
The one thing Id like to see them do better is communicate directly with the consumers in a better manner.
But even at that they are doing far more than creating confusion and buzz which is all GIA has done. My opinion of course.

I'll see your 'well said Wink' and raise you a 'well said Strm.'

Your notions about revolution and evolution are key to our having an ability to debate systems for rounds at this level of hubbub. In short, the evolution of the species is far more advanced than what we knew princess-wise. After meeting with the AGS trailblazers I believe their feet are on harmonious solid ground in the unified approach to princess-to-round-to-(next).

Strm, I agree with a need for communication with end-users. However, consumers don't directly impact the labs - they do so via vendors, appraisers and others who use the labs' services on a macro level. Right now the labs' priority must be, logically, accountability to their clients in the trade. With this their hands are full.

For now, consumers can spy on these musings, discussions, debates and (sometimes) flailings

EDITED TO ADD: If interested, see this thread in RockyTalky that answers the 40.768 color change 'mystery.' (AGS ASET 40.768 Pavilion 'On the ledge'.