AGS 000 diamond seemingly out of current ideal proportions

[Mavimaui]

I am shopping for a 1.3-1.5ct round ideal cut diamond, preferably E-G color and not SI and trying my best to save fiancé and myself some money by selecting a used diamond. I’ve been searching primarily for a new diamond on Brian Gavin website, but the prices seem out of reach. I came across this AGS (my preferred grader with their ASET technology) Ideal diamond but the proportions provided on the report do not seem to correlate to what would now be considered an ideal cut as this stone was graded in 2001. Please help! Do you have any knowledge of how AGS grading has changed throughout the years? I’m most concerned with the steep crown and pavilion angles and would like your opinion on whether this cut is truly ideal (HCA came back at 3.4). Also, my research has shown the cost of an ideal 1.34ct F diamond to range from $10-13k, this diamond is listed for approximately $9k. I’m thinking it would be prudent to determine a lower offer price, and would much appreciate your input on price given the used condition, seemingly non ideal proportions, limited images/no video of ring.



Thank you in advance for any input, this has been a very trying experience as I do my best to make an educated purchase. Also open to other suggestions, trying to stay around $7-$10k but as low as possible..

Measurements 7.09 - 7.12 x 4.38 mm
Cut grade: AGS Ideal 0 (Polish: Ideal, Symmetry: Ideal, Proportions: Ideal)
Color grade: AGS 1 (F)
Clarity grade: AGS 3 (VS1)
Carat Weight: 1.344cts

Table: 56%
Crown angle 35.4
Pavilion angle 41.1
Total depth 61.6%
Girdle width 1%-1.7%
Table 15.5%
Pavilion 43.4%

 

[Karl_K]

2001 would have been the old ags system. It would no longer get 0. I would not trust a report that old. A lot of things could have happened to the diamond since then.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Could you send it to be recertified?

Here are some other options, not preloved though!

WF Expert Selection (AGS 0 but just misses ACA classification, slightly above budget)

Diamond | 1.338 ct G VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4183265

This fabulous 1.338 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of G.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4183265

www.whiteflash.com

WF Expert Selection, slightly smaller size but in budget

Diamond | 1.232 ct G VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4022286

This fabulous 1.232 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of G.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4022286

www.whiteflash.com

And I found this one on James Allen, says it’s AGS but you’d have to phone them to get the certificate details

200,000+ Loose Diamonds - All Magnified in 360° HD | JamesAllen.com

James Allen offers a wide selection of GIA, IGI and AGS certified conflict-free loose diamonds, all presented in 360° HD. Take the guesswork out of buying a diamond.

www.jamesallen.com

oh, and there’s this one, again you’d need to speak to James Allen about the certificate, it is Si1, though

1.35 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 1.35 carat G color si1 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

 

[Mavimaui]

Could you send it to be recertified?

Here are some other options, not preloved though!

WF Expert Selection (AGS 0 but just misses ACA classification, slightly above budget)

Diamond | 1.338 ct G VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4183265

This fabulous 1.338 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of G.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4183265

www.whiteflash.com

WF Expert Selection, slightly smaller size but in budget

Diamond | 1.232 ct G VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond AGS Certified | 4022286

This fabulous 1.232 carat Round Ideal cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of G.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4022286

www.whiteflash.com

And I found this one on James Allen, says it’s AGS but you’d have to phone them to get the certificate details

200,000+ Loose Diamonds - All Magnified in 360° HD | JamesAllen.com

James Allen offers a wide selection of GIA, IGI and AGS certified conflict-free loose diamonds, all presented in 360° HD. Take the guesswork out of buying a diamond.

www.jamesallen.com

oh, and there’s this one, again you’d need to speak to James Allen about the certificate, it is Si1, though

1.35 Carat round diamond

This True Hearts TM diamond, 1.35 carat G color si1 clarity has ideal proportions and a diamond grading report from AGS

www.jamesallen.com

thank you for the recommendations - while I wish I could recertify, the diamond is in a setting on an online marketplace, so the original stone is a no; definitely like the first WF stone. I came across this one on another preloved site that looks pretty good, though I’m out of HCA review attempts. Priced at $10k, which seems high with my limited knowledge.

 

[gm89uk]

Any particular reason you have ruled out all Si stones?

 

[Snowdrop13]

If you’re buying from a preloved site, maybe from a private individual then the discount in price compared to retail should be pretty high- you won’t be getting any guarantees and there may not be a return period.

 

[Mavimaui]

Any particular reason you have ruled out all Si stones?

No, not particularly other than the effect on light performance and possibility of being able to see an inclusion.. I only get to pick one diamond out, seemed Si would be a risky move.

 

[sledge]

thank you for the recommendations - while I wish I could recertify, the diamond is in a setting on an online marketplace, so the original stone is a no; definitely like the first WF stone. I came across this one on another preloved site that looks pretty good, though I’m out of HCA review attempts. Priced at $10k, which seems high with my limited knowledge.

Proportions have potential, and HCA score of 1.5.

By chance, could the seller of this stone get you an ASET image so you could confirm a little more about the light performance of the stone? They can purchase one here:

ASET Scope

datlas.com

Handheld ASET - American Gem Society

The handheld ASET is easy to use on loose or mounted diamonds, and is convenient for travel. Learn more at AmericanGemSociety.org.

www.americangemsociety.org

I recommend the images for two primary reasons. First off, GIA not only averages the 8 actual crown & 8 actual pavilion values but then also rounds them. This could mean more variance that results in a positive, negative or impartial difference. Secondly, helping buyers I've seen several GIA XXX stones with that 35/40.8 combo. It seems to be a 50/50 deal. When ASET's are available, some look great and others have leakage.




In regards to pricing, have you used the diamond search function here on PS yet? Limiting to 1.4 to 1.49 carats, F, VS2 I see there are 16 stones available varying from about $9,800 to $14,000. I'd say the bulk looks to be in the $11,000 +/- range.

Diamond Search Results | Real-time Information on 1,000,000+ Diamonds | PriceScope

PriceScope's Diamond Search is the best place to find the best diamond prices. Search and compare over a million natural, lab and fancy color diamonds.

www.pricescope.com

On that list there is a stone from Martin @ USA that has a stone of nearly identical proportions. Overall depth is a little less because the girdle is a little skinnier. That stone is listed at $9,837. While I think the stone you are looking at is fairly priced, there are new options available for the same money so maybe you can use this for leverage to negotiate a better deal if you move forward with the pre-loved stone?

Also, the USA stone has a cavity. It's not a grade setting inclusion, so it's probably minor but I personally don't like cavities.

https://diamonddealfinder.com/enquiry.php?id_field=1339781

Besides the inclusions I'd have the same concerns. HCA comes back at 1.6 for this stone.

 

[KKJohnson]

I wouldn't trust the 2001 report because there is no telling what the stone has been thought and sadly may no longer be a VS, unless the seller is willing to get a new report one that old is basically useless. Definitely consider the stones here being given as options

 

[TODiamonds]

I did a quick search based on your parameters and found only 22 stones within your budget. Iimited table to 58% and depth to 62.5%.

Of those 22 stones, most of them were butt ugly. The limited number of search results suggests what you are asking for is not reasonable versus what you're willing to spend (hence you've been looking at used diamonds).

I did find one stone for $9900 that might be promising

1.30-Carat Round Cut Diamond | Blue Nile

www.bluenile.com

G/VS1 - Arrow pattern looks good. Nice fat 75 LGF. 36/40.8 combo. 62.4% depth.

However, grade setting inclusion is based on "clouds not shown" which is often a death sentence. I am not sure if it's ask scary on a VS1 as an SI1 (which is where I think the best value is). Maybe @sledge can provide his thoughts on this one.

I would suggest you ease your expectations (on color/clarity - preferably both) or raise your budget. Better going that route than a used stone IMO.

 

[sledge]

Inclusions aside I don't like the proportions of the 36/40.8 stone. I commented on a thread with very similar proportions. HCA was 3.5 and expected performance is not good.

You can read more here:

What do you think of this rb

https://www.goodoldgold.com/diamonds/id/3751849

www.pricescope.com

The pre-loved 35/40.8 combo has better proportions (despite concerns voiced), better color, larger and a very clean inclusion plot for a VS2. Plus there may be a chance to barter the price down. Also, if the pre-loved stone is in a setting you may be able to use that setting and save a few bucks, sell to an interested party or sell to a jeweler for scrap value. Or possibly melt down and use for a new custom setting.

 

[Mavimaui]

@sledge @TODiamonds and all others; thank you ever so much, this is a great starting point for me. After researching, it seems preloved is a big risk if I’m looking to focus on quality cut / light performance and are not equipped with the proper reports. I will go back to the drawing board and see if moving to an Si, smaller carat size, or increased budget would be best for this purchase. I will look at color grades in local stores, but have a feeling I will notice yellow tint and not care for the color of any diamond H or lower. Thank you all again, and I look forward to picking out some new diamonds in the future your review!

 

[sledge]

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I'm not of the opinion pre-loved is bad. I would caution you to do some homework though. Make sure you understand the proportions, check HCA scores and I'd buy my own ASET scope since you will probably be looking at stones locally.

Obviously the forum here would help you along the way.

One great thing about pre-loved is it presents you an opportunity to get a killer deal. Point blank it's tough selling a pre-loved stone, so you have the leverage in your favor. I'm not sure you're negotiating skill level or interest but it will pay you dividends if you can hone them.

Let us know how to help you further. Good luck, mate!

 

[Mavimaui]

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I'm not of the opinion pre-loved is bad. I would caution you to do some homework though. Make sure you understand the proportions, check HCA scores and I'd buy my own ASET scope since you will probably be looking at stones locally.

Obviously the forum here would help you along the way.

One great thing about pre-loved is it presents you an opportunity to get a killer deal. Point blank it's tough selling a pre-loved stone, so you have the leverage in your favor. I'm not sure you're negotiating skill level or interest but it will pay you dividends if you can hone them.

Let us know how to help you further. Good luck, mate!

I’ve been researching and was hoping to get your thoughts on something... sent you a message with the email address listed on your loupetroop

 

[Rockcollector]

I see where Brian Gavin is offering up to 10% off their diamonds. They are beautiful.

 

[Mavimaui]

I’ve been researching and was hoping to get your thoughts on something... sent you a message with the email address listed on your loupetroop

@sledge just making sure you saw this in case you were able to offer any input