AF ACA vs. BGD Signature --- Are you a Spock vs. Kurk?

[Laila619]

I think several vendors here negotiate price, and I know that for a fact. Any vendor has leeway to do that if they want to make the sale. Car dealers do this every single day (and I always shop the identical car between two dealers to get the lowest price), so I see nothing unusual about a diamond vendor doing it. If this involved two identical stones for the same price and policies, then I'd say fine, go for whoever you liked best on the phone! But I think it is bad advice to tell him to go for an I color over an H for the same price when we know the H stone is worth more. If I were the recipient, I would certainly want the H over the I in a round brilliant, plus getting a good deal on the H makes it even sweeter.

Yes, exactly. It's not a bad thing at all that WF will lower their price. I'd take it in a heart beat!

 

[Matata]

I think several vendors here negotiate price, and I know that for a fact. Any vendor has leeway to do that if they want to make the sale. Car dealers do this every single day (and I always shop the identical car between two dealers to get the lowest price), so I see nothing unusual about a diamond vendor doing it. If this involved two identical stones for the same price and policies, then I'd say fine, go for whoever you liked best on the phone! But I think it is bad advice to tell him to go for an I color over an H for the same price when we know the H stone is worth more. If I were the recipient, I would certainly want the H over the I in a round brilliant, plus getting a good deal on the H makes it even sweeter.

I'm not giving bad advice, I'm offering an opinion, he can take it or leave it. The H stone isn't "worth more", is it, if it's the same price as the I? And WF didn't give in on the policies at first did they? They first offered the stone at a lower price with no upgrade/return and then changed their minds. This is a bit different to me -- IMHO -- than merely negotiating price. I don't care if it's common practice, I don't like it. Reminds me of an employer I once worked for who didn't offer promotions and raises until valued employees were offered a sweeter deal elsewhere.

 

[supernnova]

UPDATE: After speaking to BGD, they've offered to work with me on the price of their I SI1 even more. I'm not going to say how much out of respect because both vendors were truly helpful and wonderful throughout the process.

First of all, I really really really appreciate the advice from all of you Spocks and Kurks out there!!! It's great to get 3rd party unbiased Treky opinions from all over the country/universe(?). Still not sure, I'll have to pick by tomorrow and feel like I can't go wrong with either stone/vendor.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Matata...to clarify, I just meant that a 2 ct. H ideal cut stone is worth more than a 2 ct. I color ideal cut stone. And I know BG has negotiated prices before as well (offered a price lower than list). So they all can play the game, and do. I see no difference whatsoever in this as compared to buying a car. They all have list prices but there can be negotiation at the discretion of the vendor. Same with houses and many other high dollar things we buy.

(And now I see supernovas post that BG is negotiating, too, so good.)

Good luck supernova!

(ETA: Just for the record, I have never gone between two diamond vendors/jewelers to try to get prices down. I generally pick out what I want before I even call, and then I ask if the price is negotiable or not. Diamond prices are so high now, that it only makes sense to ask.)

 

[yssie]

UPDATE: After speaking to BGD, they've offered to work with me on the price of their I SI1 even more. I'm not going to say how much out of respect because both vendors were truly helpful and wonderful throughout the process.

First of all, I really really really appreciate the advice from all of you Spocks and Kurks out there!!! It's great to get 3rd party unbiased Treky opinions from all over the country/universe(?). Still not sure, I'll have to pick by tomorrow and feel like I can't go wrong with either stone/vendor.

That makes me feel better, honestly. I was a little discomfited that while WF was working with you on to earn your patronage BGD was apparently content to believe that you were so smitten with the idea of speaking with Brian Gavin that they could count on you making a purely emotional decision... it is good to see that that's not the case, and that they are willing to compromise just as WF is.

It sounds like you have a tough decision, then

 

[Matata]

That makes me feel better, honestly. I was a little discomfited that while WF was working with you on to earn your patronage BGD was apparently content to believe that you were so smitten with the idea of speaking with Brian Gavin that they could count on you making a purely emotional decision... it is good to see that that's not the case, and that they are willing to compromise just as WF is.

Low blow Yssie, not the first time you've done this in a BGD discussion. Didn't you have a bad experience with BGD? Perhaps I have you confused with someone else. If you can show your bias, so can I so here goes. Brian is a 5th generation diamond cutter, cut the ACA, and has done a few new cuts since he left WF. What has WF done new recently? I think it's not a bad thing to be impressed when dealing with someone who has credentials like Brian.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

supernova, just a little side note. If I wanted an I color diamond, I would only be looking for one with blue fluorescence since it can make a diamond appear whiter in some lighting. So if I were deciding between an H and an I color stone, this is the I color stone I'd be considering:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.036-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104059065032

 

[yssie]

Matata - it wasn't supposed to be, I really did find it very strange and in poor taste and I am glad to realise I was wrong in my assumption.
Yes, I had not have a good experience with BGD, but my issues were with settings specifically, and I recommended against having custom setting work done for some time last year when it was clear that they were experiencing growing pains and things were slipping through the cracks. I have not heard anything to suggest that this is still an issue and I continue(d) recommending their stones when good value for money. This particular stone was not good value for money by comparison until supernova updated to tell us that they are also going to work with him on price.

supernova, just a little side note. If I wanted an I color diamond, I would only be looking for one with blue fluorescence since it can make a diamond appear whiter in some lighting. So if I were deciding between an H and an I color stone, this is the I color stone I'd be considering:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.036-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104059065032

WINNER.

 

[sparkles]

Which vendor has the better upgrade policy....never say never

 

[armywife13]

supernova, just a little side note. If I wanted an I color diamond, I would only be looking for one with blue fluorescence since it can make a diamond appear whiter in some lighting. So if I were deciding between an H and an I color stone, this is the I color stone I'd be considering:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.036-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104059065032

That is an amazing diamond! Great spread, clarity, color w/fluorescence...and an awesome price! Out of the three,this would be my choice hands down.

 

[Gypsy]

supernova, just a little side note. If I wanted an I color diamond, I would only be looking for one with blue fluorescence since it can make a diamond appear whiter in some lighting. So if I were deciding between an H and an I color stone, this is the I color stone I'd be considering:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.036-i-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104059065032

That is an amazing diamond! Great spread, clarity, color w/fluorescence...and an awesome price! Out of the three,this would be my choice hands down.

Agree. Although I would ask Brian to do a side by side and makes sure this one is whiter. But yeah... this one is GORGEOUS.

 

[Gypsy]

If I can suggest a setting. Just because it's fun for me.

I'd get this setting: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/josette-platinum-5404p

But with these proportions. And double claw prongs.

 

[Laila619]

That makes me feel better, honestly. I was a little discomfited that while WF was working with you on to earn your patronage BGD was apparently content to believe that you were so smitten with the idea of speaking with Brian Gavin that they could count on you making a purely emotional decision... it is good to see that that's not the case, and that they are willing to compromise just as WF is.

Low blow Yssie, not the first time you've done this in a BGD discussion. Didn't you have a bad experience with BGD? Perhaps I have you confused with someone else. If you can show your bias, so can I so here goes. Brian is a 5th generation diamond cutter, cut the ACA, and has done a few new cuts since he left WF. What has WF done new recently? I think it's not a bad thing to be impressed when dealing with someone who has credentials like Brian.

At the end of the day though, you're buying a diamond, not a name. An ACA and a BGD sig stone will be virtually indistinguishable since they basically are the same stone and follow the same 'recipe.'

If you (the general 'you') like one vendor better than the other, that's fine. But both stones will be lovely.

I've had not so great experiences with both vendors, so I really don't favor one over the other.

 

[armywife13]

If I can suggest a setting. Just because it's fun for me.

I'd get this setting: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/josette-platinum-5404p

But with these proportions. And double claw prongs.

You always seem to have the best setting suggestions! Your setting folder must be amazing

 

[supernnova]

UPDATE: Well, it's 2AM ET time right now. After some soul-searching and reading all of your comments and looking back at my research, I think I've arrived at my decision. BUT I'm going to sleep on it and see if I feel the same way tomorrow morning. =p Thanks everyone!

Those settings look awesome btw! I think my gf prefers like a clean and simple two-emerald baguette, but I personally would want more bling factor =p

 

[Gypsy]

You should get whatever she feels comfortable wearing. But if you can show her some pics to see what she thinks... here are a few ideas with baguettes.

The first one would have to be better executed, the stones are set crooked and wonky in this pic, but it's just to give you an idea.

The second one is the closest to what you said she likes. And if this is the look she wants-- I would ask BGD to try to get similar proportions on the sidestones as you see in this picture. (I personally love the fishtail prongs on the center as well, but you may not).

 

[Gypsy]

And because settings with baguettes/stepcuts are a favorite of mine... here are a few more.

(Armywife, I do enjoy a good setting!!! Thank you!)

 

[Maisie]

Gypsy that first setting you posted is just beautiful! Where is it from?

 

[stargurl78]

Maybe you can let BGD know that WF will match the price of this stone even though their stone is an H and see if BGD will go down lower because of the lower color. It seems like you really want to go with BGD and in my opinion, there is nothing wrong with that, there is something to be said about great service. But you might as well try to get the best price that you can!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

UPDATE: Well, it's 2AM ET time right now. After some soul-searching and reading all of your comments and looking back at my research, I think I've arrived at my decision. BUT I'm going to sleep on it and see if I feel the same way tomorrow morning. =p Thanks everyone!

Those settings look awesome btw! I think my gf prefers like a clean and simple two-emerald baguette, but I personally would want more bling factor =p

I think she has good taste! For what it's worth, Vatche makes a really nice setting with the baguette sides (similar to the Harry Winston style). These are not great pictures, but here is the link. WhiteFlash carries Vatche and it is always best to have the diamond vendor do the setting if possible. BG could do a custom one, I'm sure.

http://www.dvatche.com/index.php?page=collection&catID=2,9&id=99&alt=2

(And I really, really hope you saw the third stone posted since you didn't mention it in your last message.)

 

[supernnova]

UPDATE: So after some tossing and turning this morning, my inner Spock won over. The concession that BGD gave (which was much appreciated) easy enough to justify going down a color grade.

BGD: When I started this process, I was really going by the #s only, but Brian and Jamie over at BGD somehow made it a more personal experience, which is hard to value. However, Brian said it best, when he said to me that "men buy paper, women buy beauty". In this case, while it does seem that Brian's paper is better, both will be beautiful stones, and I feel as it will be very difficult to discern for my girlfriend. So taking a step back and thinking long and hard about my personality and the nature of my girlfriend (she tends to be more on the practical side), I think both of us would have ultimately regret turning down an H color diamond (a more rare diamond in nature) with a similarly high performance for roughly the same price.

That said,my experience with BGD was memorable and I would whole heartedly recommend BGD to any of my friends, esp. ones that focus on personalized attention.

WF: They ultimately brought the price down a whopping 12% of their list price while only "downgrading" their upgrade/return policy to BGDs. They've been very responsive and pleasant overall so I have no qualms with them (seem conflict free) and their operations side seem to have gotten good feedback. Part of me does feel I chose the "evil" corporation over the humble master cutter (BGD), but BGD seems like they are doing just fine (2 of their latest 4 2cts they got sold within a couple days). I hope WF won't let me down since I turned away business from very good people (Jamie and Brian). It's less of a cool story to tell friends (ie not buying a handselected stone from Brian himself) but I think I got the better stone for the money. Which as someone said here "probably wont matter in 30 years".

BGD blue: I did consider that one, but it wasn't a true H&A and I couldn't get "mind clean". Plus I was working on a deadline (although I did extensive borderline obsessive research :p)

Gypsie: I really like those settings. You have great tastes.

Thanks again all. Still love the Kurks. Let me know if y'all have any questions or comments. Live long and prosper!

 

[Laila619]

Congrats on your choice! I'm sure it will be a real beauty in person!

Part of me does feel I chose the "evil" corporation over the humble master cutter (BGD), but BGD seems like they are doing just fine (2 of their latest 4 2cts they got sold within a couple days).

LOL, I don't think BGD is hurting for business based on their popularity here. If anything, I'd say it's the other way around.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well congratulations! Did you see my post regarding the fact that Vatche makes a setting with side baguettes which WF can get for you?

I have to scratch my head at one thing you said, though. Why would you say that you feel like you chose the "evil corporation" over BG? BG was involved with WF from it's beginning and so was Debi Wexler, as far as I know. WF is exactly the same kind of business as BGD except it is a few years older. There are very fine people there as well. I have bought several stones from WF while Brian was there and after he left and Debi has even answered the phone there when I called late in the day not certain if they were still open. She is an outstanding CEO and very nice person. We aren't talking big corporation/drop shipper at all.

I think you made the smart decision long term to get the H, although the bargain shopper in me would have been tempted to buy the BG Blue. But please don't consider that you bought from a less esteemed vendor, because WF is right up there with the companies who carry the very finest diamonds.

(And when Brian said men buy paper, he meant the diamond report/numbers. His signature stones have in no way been proven to be better than WF ACA's.)

 

[supernnova]

Just to be clear. I chose the WF stone (I think I had a typo
In my first point)

 

[Maisie]

I'm curious what the 'downgrading' of the return/upgrade policy was.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'm curious what the 'downgrading' of the return/upgrade policy was.

He said they made it the same as BG's, so it is here under Policies:

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/need-help-faq/

 

[Gypsy]

Congratulations and thank you supernova!

Maisie-- no clue. I just have a bunch of files of pics of settings I like. That said, the first setting's execution is poor, so wherever it is from, I wouldn't buy it but would prefer to have someone else make it over with much better execution.

FWIW I would have picked the Blue stone too. And here's why (especially atp's post) [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/likelihood-of-finding-a-signature-super-ideal-diamond.174235/[/URL]

 

[supernnova]

Re: my WF is an "evil" corp comment. Wasn't literal haha. Just saying that it seems more corporate and less personal than BGD. I'm sure they are reputable based on all te positive feedback

 

[Laila619]

Gypsy that first setting you posted is just beautiful! Where is it from?

It's Caprine Sun's ERD e-ring CAD.

 

[Maisie]

Gypsy that first setting you posted is just beautiful! Where is it from?

It's Caprine Sun's ERD e-ring CAD.

Thank you Laila!