Advise Please

[sheckrock]

I am concerned with the VS2 clarity of a round 1 ct, G color, very nice ideal-cut diamond. I cannot see the inclusions in the picture (not shown) sent via e-mail and, although generally the vs2 inclusions are not visible to the naked eye, I understand that in some few cases the VS2 inclusions can be seen by the naked eye. This is a concern.

1) Is it a fact, although unlikely, that some round VS stones have visible inclusions?
YES OR NO.

2) If so, can you access the risk associated with this fact when buying a diamond ONLINE? Shouldn''t the jeweler offer to pay for the delivery charge on a refund for at least VS2 and above diamonds, if you can see the inclusions?

3) The AGS cert for this stone shows a few inclusions almost right in the middle of the top side of the diamond? Is this bad? Does the cert, being AGS, prove without a doubt that the vs2 inclusions cannot be seen by the naked eye?

4) Is it true that Vs2 inclusions can be seen from the top of the stone, while VS1 inclusions can only be seen from the bottom?

5) The stone shows a sarin report labeled "AGS results". Does this mean that it was done at the AGS labs with their machine? If a sarin does not state "AGS results", does that mean the machine is from the jeweler? If so, are the machines calibrated differently? How would I know if the machine at the jeweler is of poor quality?

6) Why does the sarin report for the stone, have different measurements from the AGS cert? Some measurements appear to be rounded off in the cert, although, the cert is from AGS labs and the sarin report appears to be from AGS labs as well. Also, the cert does show decimal points in some measurements, indicating that they were not rounded off.

P.S. Please give only YES OR NO answer to question #1. Question #2 allows for explaination of question #1.

P.P.S. I appreciate an answer of "this is negligible", but please provide a resonable explanation for this. I fail to see how it could be completely negligible if differences are pointed out.

Thanks for all your help,


Shecky

 

[quaeritur]

Well, I'd like to try to help, but I'm a little turned off by the "only YES OR NO answer to #1" since it really depends on several factors, including eyesight. But whatever...

1. YES
2. YES and NO. YES if you're working with a decent vendor who is willing to take the risk that you might be superman with super vision. I would not expect a vendor to refund my shipping costs back to him/her if I am able to see inclusions with my super eyes that they cannot in good faith see, but I would expect a full refund on purchase price if returned within the review period.
3. Depends on what kind of inclusions, and how good your eyes are. If they're black they may be more visible. Inclusions under the table may be more visible than inclusions under the crown facets. I would not say that the AGS cert proves anything beyond a doubt. Certs are still made out by people, and while I think the chance of an error is minute, I don't think it's impossible.
4. I don't know
5. Not necessarily. Many Sarin reports will say what AGS grading parameters each measurement falls within. It does not mean that AGS ran the Sarin. And yes, machines may be calibrated differently. There are also higher- and lower- end machines that may have varying levels of reliability.
6. The same Sarin machine may give slightly different readings on the same stone each time -they do have a margin of error. This may explain the differences.

Boy, I sure hope my response falls within acceptable parameters. Disclaimer: I'm NOT an expert, just someone trying to help out. The experts may (and hopefully will) correct any errors in my statements

 

[moremoremore]

Hi Shecky...I can't answer all of your questions...but here goes:

#1 Yes
#2 Maybe and NO
#3 Probably not. No.
#4 Don't think so

Here's the deal...the clarity grade has nothing to do with eye clean. It only assigns a grade based on the type(?) and number of inclusions. Eye clean is subjective and no cert can tell you that. Eye clean is judged from about a foot away..not eye ball to stone. I recently returned the princess of my dreams. The plot showed a crystal smack in the middle of the white part of the stone. My husband and the vendor thought it was eye clean. It really was...but not to me knowing where the inclusion was and eyeballing the stone under certain lights. Chances are NO ONE in a million years could have found it...but it bugged the heck out of me. The inclusions happened to be dark crystals. So a lot depends on the TYPE of inclusions. I believe that pin points and white (if there are such things) crystals and especially twining wisps and also clouds would be less visible. Dark spots are easier. Knowing what a Si1 means or even other clarity grades, a vendor should not have to pay for your shipping. Again, the grade has nothing to do with eye clean.

Chances are, there is nothing to worry about. I think it's probably not very common to be able to see the inclusions face up. If you were me...there would be an IF out there with visible inclusions!

 

[moremoremore]

LOL....we posted at the same time!!

 

[noobie]

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On 8/4/2004 9:40:19 PM quaeritur wrote:





Well, I'd like to try to help, but I'm a little turned off by the 'only YES OR NO answer to #1' since it really depends on several factors, including eyesight. But whatever...

1. YES
2. YES and NO. YES if you're working with a decent vendor who is willing to take the risk that you might be superman with super vision. I would not expect a vendor to refund my shipping costs back to him/her if I am able to see inclusions with my super eyes that they cannot in good faith see, but I would expect a full refund on purchase price if returned within the review period.
3. Depends on what kind of inclusions, and how good your eyes are. If they're black they may be more visible. Inclusions under the table may be more visible than inclusions under the crown facets. I would not say that the AGS cert proves anything beyond a doubt. Certs are still made out by people, and while I think the chance of an error is minute, I don't think it's impossible.
4. I don't know
5. Not necessarily. Many Sarin reports will say what AGS grading parameters each measurement falls within. It does not mean that AGS ran the Sarin. And yes, machines may be calibrated differently. There are also higher- and lower- end machines that may have varying levels of reliability.
6. The same Sarin machine may give slightly different readings on the same stone each time -they do have a margin of error. This may explain the differences.

Boy, I sure hope my response falls within acceptable parameters. Disclaimer: I'm NOT an expert, just someone trying to help out. The experts may (and hopefully will) correct any errors in my statements

----------------

I agree with Lady Q and MMM, except I would add that their eyesight is much better than mine and to answer 4, Martin Fuller told me he has seen inclusions in VS1 stones, but I would add it's probably very rare.

You need to make sure your definition of eye clean matches what the vendor is looking for. Most will be honest and tell you. If you wnat them to squint and stare at it from close range and all angles, you need to tell them that.

Good luck

 

[sheckrock]

thanks for the advise. I guess the complexity of the whole diamond buying situation is kinda getting to me. I would not have known to ask if the inclusions were dark or black.

 

[quaeritur]

----------------
On 8/4/2004 9:46:15 PM moremoremore wrote:

LOL....we posted at the same time!!----------------

tee hee! By the way, I LOVE your new avatar!

 

[moremoremore]

Thanks!!! He's not mine though...I just changed it again..I love love love black cats...I'm creepy that way!

 

[nicknomo]

When people say eye clean, some are a bit more strict about it then others. Some people obviously have very good vision... Nevertheless, an inclusion that is eye visible may only be so after 15 minutes of searching for it.

A better term would be "plainly eye visible", which you just aren't going to have in a 1 ct Si1 or better.

"Eye visible under very close inspection" will nab some Si1 stones, and to see a Vs2 inclusion would probably only be possible under a very intense inspection... if at all. If you have a Vs2 inclusion that is pitch black, smack in the center of the table, you'd have to look at it closely in good lighting... and it would be a spec.

If it is not on the table forget about it. An ideal cut diamond should have way too much sparkle to make out any vs2 inclusion there.

From the side though, it is a different story. My Si1 inclusion is visible as a small spec from the side.

So I would not be concerned. Whoever is recieving the ring will have little chance of finding the inclusion, especially if they aren't told where to look. From what I've noticed, a lot of average people have trouble finding some vs2 inclusions with a 10x loupe let alone their unaided eye.

I'm sure some jewelers have a different perspective, and are much better at spotting it... But from a non professional perspective seeing a vs2 inclusion with the naked eye is extremely unlikely.

 

[nicknomo]

Also, if the inclusions aren't shown for some reason in the diagram.. check the notes and make sure there aren't any abnormailities not shown by the diagram that are having a negative impact on the clarity grade.

 

[MelanieC]

I think it depends on the diamond, but most VS2's are probably eyeclean. My 1.08 ct VS2 is eye clean and I also have a hard time seeing the inlcusions with a 10x loupe. They were very visible using a microscope at high magnification. I can't see anything from the top or side no matter what lighting condition I have been in. Trust me, I have tried!! My inclusions are both on the table of my VS2 and my SI1.

I also have a smaller .35 SI1 that I can't see any inclusions. I even got to look at it using a 10x loupe and I had a really hard time finding the inclusions.

 

[lmurden]

Great questions and answers!

It's amazing how endless the quest for knowledge about diamonds can be.