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Advice Please - Princess cut purchase

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
Hi Everyone.

I am in the process of getting my hands of a princess cut. I know a little about what I am doing but I have a confusing situation.

I am dealing between two dealers. One wholesaler that sells to public and one that doesn't but is doing a favor for a friend who knows me.

Second dealer has a 1.4 F vs2 6.25 x 6.20 mm 72% depth, 72% table and he is asking 9k for the stone.

My first dealer is telling me the following

"Dude, you do NOT want a princess cut one single point over 65%. At 65.1% depth, you are now beginning to let light leak through the bottom AND with more weight in the bottom of the stone, you are reducing your table size and now the rock looks smaller than it could if you cut at 65. You can get a smaller weight, saving you money while still being the same size up top as 1.4 with a .99. The stone you described is overpriced and should really only be 7k"

The second dealer is telling me

"that's bs, 72 is perfect and every woman wants the biggest diamond you can afford. And no you cannot return the stone ever. Get off the pot or stop bugging me."

Opinions?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Which lab grades the stone?

Only AGS grade the cut performance of a princess cut, so to be safe go with that. Else, buy yourself an ASET scope, learn how to use it then go see the stone.

1st dealer is BS. Too many different ways to cut a princess that total depth and table size cannot along determine the cut performance of a princess. Although I would not want to buy from someone without a return policy.
 

charlottejw

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
19
wow... 1st dealer's comments are WAY off. The more depth the more weight there is in the bottom of the stone, that is true, however, what people really want in a stone is sparkle and light performance and that is what you get from a properly cut stone. Stones with 65% and under depth are MORE likely to leak light. Look at any high end princess stone, Whiteflash ACA, Solasfera, GOG Signature, CutbyInfinity, Jared Peerless, etc. Every single one that I have looked at had depth well above 65%. In fact I can't remember one that was below 70% (not saying they dont exist, but they are not the norm). That type of statement would scare me off from that dealer immediately, but other more experienced people are welcome to chime in.
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
Yeah it kinda tripped me up. The second dealer is a little peeved that I hesitated.

I have a hard time finding a stone online under 72% percent. This is a toughy.
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
and the first dealer is telling me that if he won't let you return it, then he is selling you a bad cut. He drives hard about this.
 

charlottejw

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
19
The 9k price may be pretty attractive, completely depends on how well the stone performs, you need ASET/Idealscope images to make sure. a 72% depth/72% table means it may be nice it could be bad, you cant tell with a princess, you need more information. He doesnt want returns because he isnt a retailer... if you want a more aggresive price and are going to someone that doesnt normally sell to the public then the no return policy makes sense, you have to decide whether or not you are willing to pay extra for more piece of mind with someone who offers better policies because they typically deal with consumers. Personally I wouldnt feel comfortable buying a princess without a return policy unless I had ASET/idealscope AND saw it in person, just my 2 cents
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
do you have to buy from either of these dealers? if you do, can you request that they call in some AGS0 princess stones?
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
"Get off the pot or stop bugging me."
This made me laugh out loud. Not because it was a kind thing to say, it wasn't, but because I really enjoyed the messy mix of terms, there.

Do you have to buy from either of these dealers? I'd be turned off by both--the first one is giving you misinformation, and the second doesn't have a return policy and uses ridiculous mixed metaphors.
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
well i found the first dealer because he was passing out those books called "How to buy a diamond" by fred celluar.

I don't know what to do .. i really want the process OVER and I have the money but I really want a nice nice stone and I want to pay what it's worth and not get ripped off.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
are you open to shopping online? I'm sure we can find you a lovely princess stone.
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
You know what though, thank you so much for the tip.

I had yet to hear anything about an ideal scope, ideal image and ASG0.

Why not just order one from whiteflash or some very trusted place like this? Thanks for the tip there too!
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
I just realized too... whiteflash.com is located in the EXACT SAME BUILDING as the dealer that told me get off the pot or don't! Right here in town with me... that's so weird
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
oh if you are local then I would definitely check out whiteflash and brian gavin diamonds, you will need to call for an appointment and tell them you are looking at princess cuts. also mention you are a pricescoper!
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
oh and in defense of the dealers return policy, he said that he would be happy to allow me to trade the stone for any other stone and he would give me what I paid for it, but just no flat out returns.

The other dealer has a lot of pitch, his offices are plastered with sports stars and memorabilia.. it's a trip to walk into.

He says buying anything over .99 is a waste of money and if cut more shallow then the table is nicer..

what a nerve racking process! :errrr:
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
honestly I would just call WF and BGD and make appointments, both vendors carry top of the line beautiful princess cuts and back them up with photos/ASET images/good upgrade/return policies!
 

iota15

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 19, 2010
Messages
1,278
Omg, you're in the same city, nay, same BUILDING as Whiteflash! Well, Go in!!!

Make an appointment with Whiteflash as well as Brian Gavin Diamonds. They ship diamonds and jewelry to PSers in Singapore, Australia, China and who knows where else. All of us international people would LOVE to be in the same city as these two vendors, but alas, we are not. YOU ARE! Take advantage of it.


(By the way, have you seen dealer 1's princess cut in person? Personally, I wouldn't buy any jewelry without a fantastic return policy. In any event, go to BGD or WF, have them take out an "ideal cut" princess. Take a look at an ideal princess first and make your comparisons with dealer 1 from there).
 

charlottejw

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 10, 2011
Messages
19
I agree with what has already been said, run as fast as you can away from the 1st dealer, and the 2nd dealer may be perfectly fine, but it sounds like you would really value the extra services and policies provided by WF and BGD. Also note that BG stocks gorgeous princess stones, but his inventory is centered around the 1 carat mark with I think only one above 1.2? Might want to check what else he has available, WF may have more stock if you are looking to go slightly larger. Both are awesome vendors with top quality princesses and competitive prices, you are extremely lucky to be able to go to them in person. Most of us have to resort to going to places like Jared's to see AGS0's...
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
I have seen dealer #1's stones and they do look quite nice!
I emailed him about the aset and he said that was all a bs rouse anyway. He also said that if i mentioned that here that the slams would come out. :wavey:

I think i do need to visit the other places and just see what they have to say about all of this. Also seeing them in person makes a difference.
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
Get thee to Whiteflash!
 

PCMusicGuy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
26
One of the places wouldn't happen to be Shaftel diamonds or Jonathan’s Fine Jewelers would it? I was just at Shaftel yesterday and he seemed a pretty standup guy.
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
Something else interesting.

Dealer #2 who told me 9k for the rock has the same rock on their website for $7300 :Up_to_something:
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
Should I be worried that whiteflash does not include a GIA cert.. or am i missing something.

Friend of dealer #2 says never buy anything without a GIA cert and ignore all other certs. I wonder how much of that diff between 7300 and 9k he is going to get?
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
AGS is the only lab that grades the cut performance of princess cut, and their cut grading is much stricter even for rounds. Their color and clarity grading is on par with GIA.

If you are still worried, send it to GIA loose for grading.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
31,524
plasma800|1304001960|2906996 said:
Hi Everyone.


I am dealing between two dealers. One wholesaler that sells to public and one that doesn't but is doing a favor for a friend who knows me.

Opinions?
he is BULL SH*TTING YA :!:
 

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 1, 2008
Messages
3,559
plasma800|1304087408|2907906 said:
Should I be worried that whiteflash does not include a GIA cert.. or am i missing something.
Actually, Whiteflash and others who use AGS Reports for Princess Cuts are providing more independent assessment of the diamond on your behalf.

GIA provides no assessment of cut performance which is (arguably) the most important factor in a diamond's appeal. They judge finish factors of polish & symmetry, and while those grades may indicate some level of care-taking in the cutting they give no indication whatsoever of the diamond's brightness, dispersion, contrast and scintillation as-compared to others of the same class and category.

It's logical to presume that metrics will continue to evolve. When and if GIA begins employing a cut-metric for the princess shape we can anticipate that many princess cuts purchased now - with no cut standards whatsoever enforced - will lose value when suddenly held to some new standard down the road. This already happened with numerous round-brilliant diamonds purchased prior to 2006; the year GIA introduced cut-quality assessment for rounds. In that sense the AGS Report for princess which includes a scientifically repeatable cut grade goes significantly farther than GIA's current report.

There are jewelers who do not agree with the strictness (or the softness) of AGSL's cut grading and that is fine, but the foundations of the metric are sound. Educated jewelers who have spent time researching and understanding different grading approaches, including AGSL/ASET, should be able to give you clear and logical reasons for why they do or do not support a given metric.
 
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