Advice /opinion on 1.3carat G VS2 3x GIA much appreciated

[Gav]

hi all
I am new to this forum but hoping to reach out to the community for advice. I am looking for a diamond to propose to my gf. A dealer has offered me a GIA certified stone and I was hoping to get some thoughts on the quality of the diamond based on the stats and images below.

I would be grateful for your opinion and advice.

1.3 carat 3xE VS2 G Faint fluorescence.
Table 58%, depth 60.2% crown 33.5 pavilion 40.8, girdle medium -STk
No coloured inclusions

 

[Lykame]

I THINK that the crown angle is a bit shallow and that it's not going to be such a bright stone. It also does look like that on the ASET a bit actually, the centre is more of a washed out red rather than a bright red. If I'm right, then I personally would pass on this stone.

If the experts here agree with me, please tell us what ranges you're looking for and I'm sure we could help you source something.

If they don't agree with me, then I apologise in advance.

 

[YoLaL]

If your looking for a nicely cut diamond. I pass on this stone.

 

[Gav]

Thanks Lykame and Yolal. Much appreciate your replies.

Would you regard this as a poorly cut GIA 3xE? Or something that is still great but just below ags0 standards (or well below?) just wondering what aspects make you conclude it’s a pass? The faded red on the ASET?

In terms of dimensions, crown and pavilion angles etc what should I be aiming for?

I’ve been looking for the past 1-2 months through diamond dealers but have struggled to find a great stone. Note the stone was quoted to me for $14k Australian dollars (around 10.4k usd).

Thanks in advance!

 

[gm89uk]

It's a tilted image probably making the leakage look worse than it is.Rreasonable light return, fairly good proportions, crown slightly shallow but should still be able to throw off some good fire. It all comes down to price.

It looks like it has a cloud under the table, ensure it's not based a clarity based on clouds not shown stone.

Edit: you must have posted at the same time, at that price I'd pass. There are better options in your budget.

 

[Gav]

It's a tilted image probably making the leakage look worse than it is.Rreasonable light return, fairly good proportions, crown slightly shallow but should still be able to throw off some good fire. It all comes down to price.

It looks like it has a cloud under the table, ensure it's not based a clarity based on clouds not shown stone.

Thanks gm89UK - I was quoted $14k AUD (i think roughly $10.4k usd).. not sure if thats a good price..

The GIA report shows feathers, twinning wisp, needles located around the table . In the comments it notes additional twinning wisps, pinpoints and surface graining not shown.. would pinpoints form a cloud?

 

[sledge]

I started typing a response, but got interrupted and glad I did. You revealed a few more things of your criteria. Using a budget of about $11k USD or lower and 1.20-1.50ct and eye clean diamonds I found you some super ideals that work in your budget and seem to be a good fit.

Ask Lesley if the "whiter side of the spectrum" special is still ongoing. Code DEFGH188 would get you an additional 8% off these BGD prices if so!

1.203ct G SI1, 6.83mm x 6.85mm - $8,958 wire price - Love the Blue series! This appears to be a new stone, and the Blues go fast. Ask Lesley for all the images!
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.203-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104067041006

1.162 H VS2, 6.74mm x 6.76mm - $8,619 wire price - Another Blue series that I really like!
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.162-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104100412081

1.235ct H VVS2, 6.86mm x 6.87mm - $10,567 USD wire price - This appears to be a brand new stone. Check w/ Lesley to get all the images, videos, etc. Looks to me like they just haven't got them uploaded yet.
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...s/1.235-h-vvs2-round-diamond-ags-104100554021

1.212ct G SI1, 6.80mm x 6.82mm - $9,717 USD wire price - Good bang for the buck
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/1.212-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104099574041

1.321ct H SI1, 7.03mm x 7.09mm - $9,733 USD wire price - Slightly more carat weight and about 0.20mm bigger (maybe just barely noticeable to the naked human eye)
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3978037.htm

1.40ct G SI1 Premium Cut, 7.15mm x 7.18mm - $10,483 USD wire price - Barely misses the criteria for a H&A stone like all the others, but still well cut & gorgeous and the largest of the group!
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950139.htm

 

[sledge]

You will notice I listed some H colored stones. Reasoning is simple -- on super ideals, they face up whiter than non-super ideals. If you're color sensitive, you might see a very minor tint from the side of the stone when compared to a G, but again, it will be minimal and is a non-issue for most because typically the side of the stone is a non-issue once set.

Also, sometimes fluorescence can be negative if not done right. This isn't the case with BGD stones. First, they are well cut and second he knows how to select and look for the right stones to use. This is an art. Many here, including myself, have Blue series stones. They are very popular and tend to go out of stock fast, so put on reserve if you think this may work. They are a great way to get more features and save a little cash in the process.

Read this page to learn more:
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/

 

[Lykame]

Thanks Lykame and Yolal. Much appreciate your replies.

Would you regard this as a poorly cut GIA 3xE? Or something that is still great but just below ags0 standards (or well below?) just wondering what aspects make you conclude it’s a pass? The faded red on the ASET?

In terms of dimensions, crown and pavilion angles etc what should I be aiming for?

I’ve been looking for the past 1-2 months through diamond dealers but have struggled to find a great stone. Note the stone was quoted to me for $14k Australian dollars (around 10.4k usd).

Thanks in advance!

Triple excellent is quite a broad range and unfortunately it does mean that you won't always get complimentary angles. In diamonds 0.1 degree can make quite a big difference.

As @gm89uk points out, it does also have some inclusions under the table. I mean obviously it's a big photo of something not that big, but I tend to be slightly suspicious of stones with lots of stuff under the table - I would want someone experienced and trustworthy to reassure me they were totally eye clean as once you see an inclusion it can be impossible to unsee. Although I do also think of inclusions a bit like a fingerprint - so long as I can only see them using a loupe!

Regardless of the fact you can do more for your budget, another thing to consider is that the HCA is 0.9. It's a good rejection tool so you can sort of ignore stones scoring above 2 (mostly true) but even stones scoring less than 2 have to be further analysed. This is less than 2, well done for obtaining the ASET in the first place, but one thing I'm additionally aware of is when the HCA tends to be in this lower range, such stones, if they do look good, are better viewed from a distance rather than as rings - that's not including anything to do with price or inclusions.

I can see @sledge has given you a few options. Let me have a quick look as well. My understanding for you in Australia is that there are some trade agreements between the USA and Australia so some duties are exempt? A lot of vendors would be able to guide you in this area and provide you with the right paperwork for if a stone in the USA is being shipped to you.

 

[Lykame]

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3970286.htm you would need to ask about the clouds and what affect they had on the stone if any.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4007482.htm

That's a start.

 

[whitewave]

https://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/

Garry made up the HCA tool, so maybe get in touch with him and see what he has,

 

[Gav]

Hi all thanks for the feedback and recommendations!

I was also shown the following diamond with similar stats though I think there is ablack inclusion on the stone. It’s around 1k cheaper than the other one.

Would this be a superior stone to the last?

Note the dealer blacked out the GIA number but assured me it was a current stone.

 

[Dancing Fire]

1.162 H VS2, 6.74mm x 6.76mm - $8,619 wire price - Another Blue series that I really like!
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.162-h-vs2-round-diamond-ags-bl-104100412081

We have a winner!

 

[BlingDreams]

1.40ct G SI1 Premium Cut, 7.15mm x 7.18mm - $10,483 USD wire price - Barely misses the criteria for a H&A stone like all the others, but still well cut & gorgeous and the largest of the group!
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3950139.htm

I’d take the bigger size for the slightly less-perfect cut! It still performs beautifully!!!!

 

[Lykame]

Hi all thanks for the feedback and recommendations!

I was also shown the following diamond with similar stats though I think there is ablack inclusion on the stone. It’s around 1k cheaper than the other one.

Would this be a superior stone to the last?

Note the dealer blacked out the GIA number but assured me it was a current stone.

That black crystal under the table would make me nervous. Any chance you could see the stone? However many inches away from the stone do you have to be before you can see it? Black crystals do really stand out sometimes. It's nicer if they're closer to the edge of the stone and can be hidden with a prong.

How tied in to this dealer are you?

The others have posted some really lovely choices that are worth looking at!

 

[Gav]

Thanks all. I’m somewhat tied to the dealer as I had put down a deposit as a commitment fee.

I have been presented with another stone. 1.3 G VS2 3xE table 58 depth62.2 crown 35.5 pavilion 41. Pictures below. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance! Apparently it’s a AGS 0 but has a HCA >2?

 

[Lykame]

Thanks all. I’m somewhat tied to the dealer as I had put down a deposit as a commitment fee.

I have been presented with another stone. 1.3 G VS2 3xE table 58 depth62.2 crown 35.5 pavilion 41. Pictures below. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance! Apparently it’s a AGS 0 but has a HCA >2?

Do they have Idealscope and ASET images for you? It's quite a big table and that tends to preference brilliance. The angles on this stone are a bit unusual. They say that 35.5 can work with a pavillion angle of 40.6... 41 is in the opposite direction to this really.

I would have thought you could do better.

I've been told to look for stones like this:
Table: 54-58
Depth: 60-62.3
Crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pavillion angle).
Pavillion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34).

Ask them to find you stones like that? And then get ASET pictures if you can.

The only thing I'm confused about, and you are too, is the AGS 0 is quite a tight range and it seems to have successfully been assigned it. I guess the other option might be to see it with your own eyes? But I would want the ASET, I'm suspicious of this stone.

 

[Gav]

Do they have Idealscope and ASET images for you? It's quite a big table and that tends to preference brilliance. The angles on this stone are a bit unusual. They say that 35.5 can work with a pavillion angle of 40.6... 41 is in the opposite direction to this really.

I would have thought you could do better.

I've been told to look for stones like this:
Table: 54-58
Depth: 60-62.3
Crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pavillion angle).
Pavillion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34).

Ask them to find you stones like that? And then get ASET pictures if you can.

The only thing I'm confused about, and you are too, is the AGS 0 is quite a tight range and it seems to have successfully been assigned it. I guess the other option might be to see it with your own eyes? But I would want the ASET, I'm suspicious of this stone.

Do they have Idealscope and ASET images for you? It's quite a big table and that tends to preference brilliance. The angles on this stone are a bit unusual. They say that 35.5 can work with a pavillion angle of 40.6... 41 is in the opposite direction to this really.

I would have thought you could do better.

I've been told to look for stones like this:
Table: 54-58
Depth: 60-62.3
Crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pavillion angle).
Pavillion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34).

Ask them to find you stones like that? And then get ASET pictures if you can.

The only thing I'm confused about, and you are too, is the AGS 0 is quite a tight range and it seems to have successfully been assigned it. I guess the other option might be to see it with your own eyes? But I would want the ASET, I'm suspicious of this stone.

Hi Lykame

whats your opinion of a 33.5 degree crown angle? is there a pairing that would work with that?

thanks,
Gavin

 

[Lykame]

Hi Lykame

whats your opinion of a 33.5 degree crown angle? is there a pairing that would work with that?

thanks,
Gavin

Hi Gavin,

You're correct in thinking that these numbers are never in isolation - that sounds like you have another option too? What are the angles for it?



https://agslab.com/docs/pbcg/AGSLProportionCharts.pdf

This is a useful document for you to look at, as it helps you plot table %s against crown and pavilion angles - it can help you quickly rule in or out potential contenders that this dealer is showing you. But please feel free to continue sharing options with us.

You'll find you'll be able to plot into one box on those charts, but stones are 3D so please pay attention to the boxes surrounding the box you have plotted in, as well.

Keep us updated!

Lydia.

 

[Gav]

Thank you!!

 

[Gav]

Still looking but will keep you updated

 

[Gav]

That black crystal under the table would make me nervous. Any chance you could see the stone? However many inches away from the stone do you have to be before you can see it? Black crystals do really stand out sometimes. It's nicer if they're closer to the edge of the stone and can be hidden with a prong.

How tied in to this dealer are you?

The others have posted some really lovely choices that are worth looking at!

@Lyakme
Here’s a video of the stone - do you think the black inclusions (there are 2) will be visible to naked eye ?

 

[Lykame]

@Lyakme
Here’s a video of the stone - do you think the black inclusions (there are 2) will be visible to naked eye ?

Ummm. Well that's not the greatest video to be honest as he spends more time focused on the underside of the stone, which isn't what you would be looking at. I would ask him to do it again under some different lighting conditions, maybe outside in the sun (or by a window with natural light), under spotlights etc. Ask him to do a video where it's not magnified. Honestly, I can see at least one crystal immediately on the brief glimpse, but it's not a video that is proportionate to reality and based on the other things you have posted about that stone it has the likelihood of being an excellent performer. That might then be worth it to you.

If you did go for it so you could see it in person, what is the return policy???

Also, out of interest, what's his opinion (taken with a big pinch of salt)?

 

[Gav]

Ummm. Well that's not the greatest video to be honest as he spends more time focused on the underside of the stone, which isn't what you would be looking at. I would ask him to do it again under some different lighting conditions, maybe outside in the sun (or by a window with natural light), under spotlights etc. Ask him to do a video where it's not magnified. Honestly, I can see at least one crystal immediately on the brief glimpse, but it's not a video that is proportionate to reality and based on the other things you have posted about that stone it has the likelihood of being an excellent performer. That might then be worth it to you.

If you did go for it so you could see it in person, what is the return policy???

Also, out of interest, what's his opinion (taken with a big pinch of salt)?

According to the dealer the supplier has said the inclusion is tiny and the stone is eye clean..

I saw two black inclusions based on the previous hearts and arrows and aset.. otherwise it’s a stone in my price range. My main concern is that if anyone can pick up the black inclusion almost immediately, my partner would be able to pick it up if she was staring at the stone more than the typical person!

 

[Lykame]

According to the dealer the supplier has said the inclusion is tiny and the stone is eye clean..

I saw two black inclusions based on the previous hearts and arrows and aset.. otherwise it’s a stone in my price range. My main concern is that if anyone can pick up the black inclusion almost immediately, my partner would be able to pick it up if she was staring at the stone more than the typical person!

This isn't something I have a lot of experience with honestly, interpreting whether an inclusion that's easy to see at magnification would be easy to see in real life. It is a VS2, which would lead you to believe it would be eye clean. But they aren't always. Once you see these things in real life they are never unseen - but perhaps you need to see it in person? Tell us about your girl, is she someone who notices tiny things? Also eye clean means usually from a distance of about 10 inches from the face of the diamond. Most people only see a diamond most of the time from beyond that but if she's going to put her nose up to it that might be a different matter!

What's the return policy?

Perhaps someone like @rockysalamander could provide more experience on the likelihood of it being eye clean or not. @sledge you have posted on this thread too, do you have an opinion? I wouldn't want you to miss out on the perfect stone because of me worrying you about something that is nothing to worry about.

 

[rockysalamander]

Can you point me to which stone in which post?

 

[Gav]

Can you point me to which stone in which post?

 

[Gav]

Hi rocky the images are above and vid in previous post ! Cheers!!

 

[rockysalamander]

Hi rocky the images are above and vid in previous post ! Cheers!!

Black inclusions are generally more visible than white. But, this looks very tiny. If the vendor has a good return policy, I'd give it a chance.

 

[Gav]

Black inclusions are generally more visible than white. But, this looks very tiny. If the vendor has a good return policy, I'd give it a chance.

I may just add there is a second one at 5 o’clock near the heart...