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Advice on Round Brilliant

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
Hi all,

I'm just starting out my search and thought I found a decent ring within my budget; however, I'm just a beginner (and slightly colorblind). I would love to get some more experienced thoughts here on this diamond. Thanks in advance!

1618964345523.png
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,395
That's really not going to be a great one. Try to stay within these parameters which will put you in the ideal cut range.

Table: 54-58

Depth: 60-62.3

Crown angle 34-35 (or up to 35.5 with a 40.6 pavilion angle)

Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

The stone you posted has a 35 crown angle and 41.6 pavilion angle. You'd want a pavilion angle closer to 40.6 with a 35 crown angle. A 34 crown angle would usually work with a 40.9 pavilion angle.

Be sure to look at stones that have photos or videos.
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
That's really not going to be a great one. Try to stay within these parameters which will put you in the ideal cut range.

Table: 54-58

Depth: 60-62.3

Crown angle 34-35 (or up to 35.5 with a 40.6 pavilion angle)

Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9

The stone you posted has a 35 crown angle and 41.6 pavilion angle. You'd want a pavilion angle closer to 40.6 with a 35 crown angle. A 34 crown angle would usually work with a 40.9 pavilion angle.

Be sure to look at stones that have photos or videos.

Thanks - so really the biggest issue here is the pavilion angle? Everything else seems to fit the parameters you mentioned above.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,395
Thanks - so really the biggest issue here is the pavilion angle? Everything else seems to fit the parameters you mentioned above.


Yes, it would cause problems. If you use this tool, you will see that it scores poorly.


It comes out to have this score:

Screenshot (27).png

What you want to see is:

Light return: Excellent
Fire: Excellent
Scintillation: Excellent
Spread: Very Good

HCA Score: 2 or less (most will be in the 1-2 range)

As you can see, a score of 5 is pretty bad. The GIA excellent range is extremely broad, so you have to screen them to find the really nice ones.
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
Are you tied to this vendor you are working with or do you have the option to go somewhere else? What is your budget you are working with?
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
Thanks all - this is helpful. I will keep looking then. Pretty clear from the group so appreciate the feedback. Just starting out my search and learning a ton already.
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
Are you tied to this vendor you are working with or do you have the option to go somewhere else? What is your budget you are working with?

I'm not tied to them. Was just referred to them from another friend. I was looking at 20-25K for the diamond.
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
I'm not tied to them. Was just referred to them from another friend. I was looking at 20-25K for the diamond.

What specifications you are looking for like carat/clarity/color ?

Members on this forum are very helpful and can recommend a top performance diamond.
 

Txborn79

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
283
I'm not tied to them. Was just referred to them from another friend. I was looking at 20-25K for the diamond.

With your budget you can get an idea cut stone and take all the guess work out of picking one. I’m going off the color/size/clarity in your original post

 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
With your budget you can get an idea cut stone and take all the guess work out of picking one. I’m going off the color/size/clarity in your original post


Good pick
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
What specifications you are looking for like carat/clarity/color ?

Members on this forum are very helpful and can recommend a top performance diamond.

I definitely appreciate that. I’m looking for this. Let me know if I’m missing anything though

Shape: round brilliant,
Color: I (or J)
Clarity: VS2 (or VS1)
Carat: targeting a little over 2
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,965
I definitely appreciate that. I’m looking for this. Let me know if I’m missing anything though

Shape: round brilliant,
Color: I (or J)
Clarity: VS2 (or VS1)
Carat: targeting a little over 2

That is definitely doable. See above for amazing recs
 

jp201845

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 24, 2018
Messages
507
I definitely appreciate that. I’m looking for this. Let me know if I’m missing anything though

Shape: round brilliant,
Color: I (or J)
Clarity: VS2 (or VS1)
Carat: targeting a little over 2

You have the budget to go with Whiteflash which is a super ideal vendor. This means they have top cut diamonds which are the best of the best. They also have a very generous upgrade policy, simply spend $1 more and get full value of your diamond you are trading in. Whiteflash is highly recommend on this forum and their customer support is top notch you can't go wrong.
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
Thanks everyone @lovedogs @jp201845 @Txborn79

after researching a bit more my question is, is the “super ideal cut” or “a cut above” from white flash worth the premium? In other words, is there a noticeable difference with this cut or am I better off saving a few grand and going into a slightly lower cut to maximize my value? By all means 20-25k is a budget but if I come in lower I have no issues with that!

How would you spec out a diamond with that budget with cut and carat being the more important items?
 

Txborn79

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
283
Thanks everyone @lovedogs @jp201845 @Txborn79

after researching a bit more my question is, is the “super ideal cut” or “a cut above” from white flash worth the premium? In other words, is there a noticeable difference with this cut or am I better off saving a few grand and going into a slightly lower cut to maximize my value? By all means 20-25k is a budget but if I come in lower I have no issues with that!

How would you spec out a diamond with that budget with cut and carat being the more important items?

The good thing about an ACA or a diamond from a “super idea” vendor is they have the stones in house and have already taken all the guess work out of picking by doing all the advanced imaging so you know you are getting a sparkler. Most other vendors do not have the diamonds in house and they are available on numerous different sites so you can only go by numbers on the report, which in GIA reports, the numbers are rounded so without advanced images (idea scope, aset image and hearts image) you don’t really know if the diamond is cut well. GIA excellent doesn’t always mean well cut.

Another benefit from buying from an idea cut vendor is the upgrade policies. HPD and WF have the best as in you only have to spend one dollar more to upgrade. The vendors who don’t own their own stones, you have to spend double, so for an upgrade of a $25k diamond, you’d have to spend $50k where as with HPD and WF you’d only have to spend $25,001.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,395
Cut is the most important factor in the beauty of a diamond. The measurements I gave you above will help you narrow down GIA Excellent stones, and perhaps you can find a very nice one. I do favor ACAs, personally, but if you want to post some other GIA Ex stones to compare, that's fine, and we can give you more feedback to help you decide!
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
@diamondseeker2006 @Txborn79

thanks all! I’ll be researching some more over the coming weeks. A jeweler I met said an ideal cut is a marketing gimmick where you’re paying 30-40% premium for a marginal increase in cut. What are your thoughts there? I’m sure at some point there’s diminishing value of return and frankly I feel fine paying more for a better cut but just curious how others think about it.

Separately, how often do folks get loose diamonds set on a ring from a local jeweler? I wasn’t able to find a ring setting I liked on white flash’s website but wonder if there’s a downside going to a local jeweler to finish the job.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,965
@diamondseeker2006 @Txborn79

thanks all! I’ll be researching some more over the coming weeks. A jeweler I met said an ideal cut is a marketing gimmick where you’re paying 30-40% premium for a marginal increase in cut. What are your thoughts there? I’m sure at some point there’s diminishing value of return and frankly I feel fine paying more for a better cut but just curious how others think about it.

Separately, how often do folks get loose diamonds set on a ring from a local jeweler? I wasn’t able to find a ring setting I liked on white flash’s website but wonder if there’s a downside going to a local jeweler to finish the job.

Jewelers who say that are trying to convince you that their (inferior) stones are "just as good" as the ideal cut stones. Frankly, they are lying to attempt to get your business, and I think it's a crappy tactic.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,395
I certainly wouldn't pay 30-40% more. It's possible to do that at certain brick and mortar jewelers and buying certain brands such as Hearts on Fire, but a vendor like Whiteflash certainly isn't 30-40% higher than an equivalent top cut generic GIA stone.

I wouldn't go to a local jeweler for a setting because they often will be mad you bought a stone elsewhere. But we can tell you about custom ringmakers if you can show us examples of what style you are looking for.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,965
I certainly wouldn't pay 30-40% more. It's possible to do that at certain brick and mortar jewelers and buying certain brands such as Hearts on Fire, but a vendor like Whiteflash certainly isn't 30-40% higher than an equivalent top cut generic GIA stone.

I wouldn't go to a local jeweler for a setting because they often will be mad you bought a stone elsewhere. But we can tell you about custom ringmakers if you can show us examples of what style you are looking for.
oooh good point. hearts on fire = wallet on fire :)
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
I certainly wouldn't pay 30-40% more. It's possible to do that at certain brick and mortar jewelers and buying certain brands such as Hearts on Fire, but a vendor like Whiteflash certainly isn't 30-40% higher than an equivalent top cut generic GIA stone.

I wouldn't go to a local jeweler for a setting because they often will be mad you bought a stone elsewhere. But we can tell you about custom ringmakers if you can show us examples of what style you are looking for.

Got it, that’s good to know that whiteflash is well respected and not charging a huge premium.
With respect to the setting, that’s what I was afraid of as well. I was thinking of a setting like this but was told it might be a little weak in the area connecting the setting to the ring itself. Ideally looking for something simple, elegant and modern. B775A1F7-A65A-47E2-9D18-A1F2A7C8C7EB.jpeg
 

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lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
12,965
Got it, that’s good to know that whiteflash is well respected and not charging a huge premium.
With respect to the setting, that’s what I was afraid of as well. I was thinking of a setting like this but was told it might be a little weak in the area connecting the setting to the ring itself. Ideally looking for something simple, elegant and modern. B775A1F7-A65A-47E2-9D18-A1F2A7C8C7EB.jpeg

WF could easily make something like that, except more secure.
 

LoveMeDo

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Messages
210
Those Whiteflash ACAs will make your jaw drop. If they’re within budget, save yourself the trouble of making yourself crazy with research - you won’t find a better cut than those stones!
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
Those Whiteflash ACAs will make your jaw drop. If they’re within budget, save yourself the trouble of making yourself crazy with research - you won’t find a better cut than those stones!

That’s what I was thinking too. Just one and done to call it a day
 

Jyt1022

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 20, 2021
Messages
28
Hi all - I've done some more work and curious to get folks' thoughts between these diamonds.


I'm leaning between these two (one was recommended by @Txborn79)
  1. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4312113.htm
  2. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4379400.htm
One question I have is the 2.238 ct stone much better than the 2.191 (or any of the others listed)? It's almost 2K more and I couldn't see a significant advantage over the 2.191ct aside from slightly large (though the dimensions are very very similar).
 

Avatar345

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2021
Messages
126
Hi all - I've done some more work and curious to get folks' thoughts between these diamonds.


I'm leaning between these two (one was recommended by @Txborn79)
  1. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4312113.htm
  2. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4379400.htm
One question I have is the 2.238 ct stone much better than the 2.191 (or any of the others listed)? It's almost 2K more and I couldn't see a significant advantage over the 2.191ct aside from slightly large (though the dimensions are very very similar).

Given that they're both VS2, I think it's likely largely irrelevant - BUT, on top of being slightly larger obviously, the more expensive stone has no notation of surface graining. To have that surface graining noted and still get VS2 on the first stone it must really be mild, however. Still, it's there, and that could be a bit of that difference in price you're seeing.
 
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