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Advice on purchasing a diamond without a CERT

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bkal14

Rough_Rock
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Oct 17, 2006
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I am looking into purchasing a loose diamond for an engagement ring. I have read up on diamonds and viewed many diamonds throughout boston.


One jeweler who is reputable and been around for 80 years has a diamond that I like a lot. However it doesn''t have a GIA cert and he has graded it. He has graded it:


Radiant cut, 2.16, H, SI2. Proportion ration: 1.33.


These are perfect specs for me, exactly what I''m looking for. He has quoted me 10,000. Should I not even consider buying the stone without a cert? He said they honor trade-ins of the diamond in the future for what I paid for it to put towards another diamond. Which I believe I will do.


I should also add that he said I can have the stone sent in to get GIA certified if I pay the 250 dollars and put a small deposit down. He said if it comes back the same, I am obligated to purchase the stone and pay the 250 for the cert but it wouldn''t change the price of the stone up or down and we would stick with the original price. If it comes back lower, then I don''t haev to pay for the cert, and am not obligated to buy the diamond.


Is this a good price? What should I do in regards to the certification? Is it necessary even with the trade-up in the future? Also I''d like some advice on how to negotiate price in the best way possible. Any other advice on purchasing Radiant cuts would be greatly appreciated as well.

 
Put the diamond specs in the pricescope your diamond at the top. The price is not great. Especially for a diamond without a cert. If you really like the way it looks, have it sent to GIA. That is a very good idea. At the very least, if you love the way it looks, take it to an independent appraiser and find out exactly what the diamond is.
 
You either need the cert or an independent appraisal, but I think I''d go for the cert. But I''d agree to pay for the cert but you should not be obligated to purchase the stone in any event. You should have the right to a return period even if you did buy it. I''d never agree to buy anything where I couldn''t change my mind. But I do think it is reasonable for you to pay for the cert if you want it (and I think you do need it).
 
run
There are 3 vendors Id trust to buy an uncerted diamond of that size from and none of them would sell me one.
A gia/ags report is protection for both the buyer and the seller.
A smart buyer demands them and a smart vendor has em.
 
Date: 10/17/2006 6:33:27 PM
Author: strmrdr
run
There are 3 vendors Id trust to buy an uncerted diamond of that size from and none of them would sell me one.
A gia/ags report is protection for both the buyer and the seller.
A smart buyer demands them and a smart vendor has em.
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I was thinking. Why would someone buy or come into contact with a diamond of this size and price without a cert?

So you are telling me that the vendors you know wouldn''t even sell you one of that size without a cert?

The other places I''ve gone to look at radiant cuts of similar quality are much more expensive. Is it possible to get a radiant cut 2.16 H, SI2 for close to 10,000?
 
Without a cert, what makes you think it''s really H SI2? I''m sorry, but I made the mistake of buying uncertified 1.5 ctw diamond earrings a few years ago (back when I was a more trusting person), and I was told they were H SI. Well, I''ve been told by two jewelers now that they are definitely I1 at best, and who knows about the cut quality. So my "good deal" was not, and my next diamond earrings will be certified, just as soon as I sell the old ones at a loss.
 
I''m trying to find you something to compare prices but am not seeing the exact same thing. Here''s a nice radiant, though:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2262/

It looks like the price would be okay if it came back as represented from GIA. But absolutely do not buy it without the cert.
 
Date: 10/17/2006 7:16:22 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I''m trying to find you something to compare prices but am not seeing the exact same thing. Here''s a nice radiant, though:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/2262/

It looks like the price would be okay if it came back as represented from GIA. But absolutely do not buy it without the cert.
Click to expand...
That is a nice diamond, but the price is out of my range.

I can''t go much over 10K on the diamond, but I want somewhere around 2 carats with eye-clean/ eye sufficient color. It''s hard to find.

It is also difficult because most B&M stores do not carry much of a selection, if any at all, radiant cuts, and then rectangular on top of that.

I''m glad I asked this question on here, Cert all the way.
 
Good luck and please come back and tell us how the cert turns out! (And post a picture, too, if you buy it!)
 
Be sure the return period is substantial, and that it gives you enough time to get it appraised!
 
I found that often a $6500 or a $10000 uncerted diamond suddenly becomes a $2500 or $5000 diamond if I just stall around, don't take the bait, don't communicate, and then walk in and offer cash after they've had several days or a week to think about making a sale. There might be better odds toward the end of the month. I'd hold out for price substantially less than you could get it for on Pricescope. Certs have advantages, but they don't affect cut or appearance.

At any rate, the jeweler can certainly foot the $250 charge for the cert and not go broke. Some nerve! Did he overrate it and doesn't want that proved? If he wants to sell high, I should think he'd be willing to put $250 into it. :-)
 
Date: 10/17/2006 7:34:21 PM
Author: bkal14
That is a nice diamond, but the price is out of my range.

I can''t go much over 10K on the diamond, but I want somewhere around 2 carats with eye-clean/ eye sufficient color. It''s hard to find.

It is also difficult because most B&M stores do not carry much of a selection, if any at all, radiant cuts, and then rectangular on top of that.

I''m glad I asked this question on here, Cert all the way.
Click to expand...
Yes I had that problem too. I spent alot of time trying on all different shapes of stones. I knew that a rectangular looked best on my hand. I wanted a radiant. That means looking at many stores, each had only one or two. I saw only one really good one--way way out of my price range. It was GIA rated. Then I found out about cushions and am getting a rectangular cushion. Love the facets, more like a OEC than the crushed ice of radiants. Could I pull you into looking at cushions too?

Maybe you could drop down to a J in color. Go look at some radiants or cushions in J if you can find them. Also pay attention to mm size. Some 2ct cushions/radiants "face up" smaller than some stones that weigh less. It''s all about the cut! You want the look, not just the weight!
 
Date: 10/17/2006 10:39:02 PM
Author: Stone Hunter
Yes I had that problem too. I spent alot of time trying on all different shapes of stones. I knew that a rectangular looked best on my hand. I wanted a radiant. That means looking at many stores, each had only one or two. I saw only one really good one--way way out of my price range. It was GIA rated. Then I found out about cushions and am getting a rectangular cushion. Love the facets, more like a OEC than the crushed ice of radiants. Could I pull you into looking at cushions too?

Maybe you could drop down to a J in color. Go look at some radiants or cushions in J if you can find them. Also pay attention to mm size. Some 2ct cushions/radiants ''face up'' smaller than some stones that weigh less. It''s all about the cut! You want the look, not just the weight!
Click to expand...
We are leaning towards a radiant, but cushions are not out of the question. I''ve also had a hard time finding proper dimensions for a radiant cut.

I''ve seend probably 15-20 radiant stones ranging from 1-3 carats and each one has looked completely different than the other. And oh how much I love walking in and getting a "oh we just sold our radiant that we carry."
 
Yes it is a frustrating...I mean fun search. It is very very hard to get a radiant with good numbers on paper. Most of the ones I saw in person really didn''t look that good either. Didn''t matter what size or price they were. Only one I really want to compare to my cushion. And after seeing the OEC I went for the chunky facets in a rectangle.

The first cushion I really looked at was a very good cut but I didn''t like the look of it. I thought that meant that I didn''t like cushions. But just like radiants they have alot of different looks. Have fun hunting.
 
I've been observing this thread and trying to understand. Why wouldn't a jeweler send in a large stone in for certification if the small cost at the lab would easily be offset by the higher value. My guess is that it may have been certed and they it was bad so they want to sell it as "uncertified" or they already knew that it was not going to get good scores. Am I far off? I've never found any stones under 1ct that was uncertified.
 
Have you checked with Diamonds by Lauren? (Not to knock the PS vendors, but DBL specializes.) Find them through ebay or diamondring.com
 
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