Advice Needed: H&A but it''s EGL

[jbmoon333]

I went serious diamond shopping today and placed a deposit on a stone. I have done tons of research and felt pretty good about what I was doing. The stone I found was 1.01, G, SI2. It had a beautiful H&A pattern. In fact the H&A''s were better that the $11,000 HOF diamond I compared it to. To the eye, under different lighting conditions, the non HOF diamond peformed just as well as the HOF diamond did.

The diamond was an EGL diamond. Everyone posts that EGL is not as strict as GIA or AGS. So I still have some confusion. For instance the H&A pattern was beautiful and very distinct. The EGL cert only had the Symatry and Polish as "Very Good" and not "Ideal". How can that be with the perfect H&A pattern? The stone was graded as "ideal".

Here are some other specs for the stone:

Depth=61.4%
Table=59%
Crown Angle=35.1
Pav Angle=40.6
Cutlet=None
Flour=Slight
Girdle=2.2-3.1

If a diamond has such a beautiful H&A pattern should I even care what cert it is?

Any help would be great.

Thanks

 

[whatmeworry]

Some reasons you should care about EGL grading are because it''s cut, color, clarity grading are different from GIA. But the cut agrees with you, so it''s color and clarity. Are you happy with the color and clarity? White enough? Eye clean to you and the ring wearer?

1) you are really set on getting a G/SI2 color and you would be disappointed if it got appraised as a lower color or clarity. (In this case even with GIA graded stones, Oldminer says get an F color to be sure!)
2) you want to make sure you are getting a fair price for the diamond, so you could have it appraised for pricing as well as the 4Cs.

If you like it and the price is right, what''s in a label? Just make sure you can return it for your money back just in case you change your mind.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Just an observation:

We regularly have consumers here asking to assess their EGL-graded diamonds. Isn''t it weird that in over half of the circumstances, this stone has an SI2-grade from EGL?

 

[rcrosier]

Ask the jeweler to let you see a color grading tray and put a G color GIA diamond next to the EGL stone you''re looking at for a color comparison. Then use his loupe to view the inclusions and see if they bother you. As far as the polish/sym rating, I think it is kinda weird from the sym point of view, but polish is independent of that. It really doesn''t matter as long as you are getting light performance expected of an H&A. Also, are you looking at pictures of the H&A symmetry or actually seeing it through a scope/viewer? I''ve heard stories of jewelers pawning off images of other stones to represent stones they have in stock. Just be careful and cover all of your bases... As long as you feel comfortable, then there shouldnt be a problem.

 

[jbmoon333]

Thanks for all the replys. I did see the diamond with my own two eyes. In fact seeing it compared to a HOF was amazing. I was able to compare to other diamonds and to the eye seemed just as nice as some F''s I looked at. The inclusins were about the same as other SI2''s. To the naked eye the SI2 was no big deal, could not see the inclusions. I guess I just don''t to find out later that the stone is really a H or and I. I will for sure go back and look at it in a color tray next to a E or F GIA.

I guess I am just confused as to how a H&A stone can not be idela all around, given the almost perfect H&A pattern. As for sparkle there was no difference in the HOF, the stone was beautiful. maybe I just need to stop thinking about it so much.

Thanks to all of you.

 

[bagelboy]

jbmoon, It seemes EGL Israel is the least consistent, compared with AGS and GIA. EGL has about a dozen or more grading labs worldwide. The EGL lab here in the US has in the past few years has tried to be more consistent and inline with GIA. Look at your certificate, it should say where or which lab graded that diamond. I believe there is also is an online cert check website for the US graded stones. Your diamond may be exactly as the certificate states it to be if it was graded here recently. I would suggest to have it examined by an independent appraiser as soon as possible. You will need an appraisal for insurance purposes anyhow. I''m not sure on EGL stones, but on GIA stones, the cutter or who ever owns the stone can have the girdle inscribed. That inscription is then stated on the cetificate for the sake of accuracy and completeness. The H and A part may just be someones desire to inrease sales. H and A is much used term or catchphrase. Like a "nice house". It can mean many things to many different people. If you are happy with your diamond don''t worry about the paper. By looking at the numbers, it should be a very beautiful diamond.

 

[Lorelei]

A well cut diamond can display a good arrow pattern, but really it is the hearts image which is the most telling- however a diamond which shows well formed arrows may not be a true example of the cutting style. See here for more info -

https://www.pricescope.com/hearts_indx.asp

Having said that, if you like the diamond and it is eyeclean, then that is what matters. Also which EGL graded this stone, EGL USA, Israel, Europe or other please? Also concerning your query regarding symmetry, optical symmetry and lab graded symmetry are not dependent on one another, it is possible you could find a diamond which displays H&A with only good lab graded symmetry for example.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

A H&A-pattern can be obtained in a wide area of proportion-sets, ranging from good to excellent.

The basic light return (and thus the light performance) comes from the proportion-set, and the pattern (H&A) maximizes the light performance of that proportion-set. One should not consider the pattern separately from the proportion-set and of the consistency within that proportion-set.

Live long,

 

[jbmoon333]

The cert is an EGL USA.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 7/27/2008 8:08:17 AM
Author: jbmoon333
The cert is an EGL USA.

EGL USA is considered by some to be the strongest EGL lab. As to whether this is indeed a true hearts and arrows diamond, we can't tell without images and much more info, however if you are happy that this diamond may not be a true example of this cutting style ( taking a pessimistic view here!) and you love the stone, then that is what matters. If you want an undisputed H&A stone, then you would need to evaluate this diamond much more and get the required images and right advice as to whether this diamond meets the standard, or keep looking.

 

[risingsun]

Date: 7/27/2008 6:28:40 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
A H&A-pattern can be obtained in a wide area of proportion-sets, ranging from good to excellent.

The basic light return (and thus the light performance) comes from the proportion-set, and the pattern (H&A) maximizes the light performance of that proportion-set. One should not consider the pattern separately from the proportion-set and of the consistency within that proportion-set.

Live long,

Thank you, Paul, for responding in such a straightforward way to help us understand the relationship between H&A and proportion-set

I hope this will help others who are choosing their diamonds and meeting with uninformed or misleading information.

 

[vespergirl]

My stone is a 2.01 ct EGL H&A G SI1, with a beautiful pattern. Here are some links so you can check it out. I am absolutely in love with my stone, and don''t feel that it''s lower in quality even though the piece of paper that came with it is from EGL instead of GIA. Here are some threads so you can check it out:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-off-your-egl-stone.77225/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-2-ct-rb-upgrade-old-setting-p.73980/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/christmas-upgrade-ruined-by-mervis.75053/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-ct-rb-back-in-old-setting-and-new-ear-studs.75466/

 

[AndyMN]

Date: 7/26/2008 7:30:58 PM
Author: jbmoon333
Thanks for all the replys. I did see the diamond with my own two eyes. In fact seeing it compared to a HOF was amazing. I was able to compare to other diamonds and to the eye seemed just as nice as some F''s I looked at. The inclusins were about the same as other SI2''s. To the naked eye the SI2 was no big deal, could not see the inclusions. I guess I just don''t to find out later that the stone is really a H or and I. I will for sure go back and look at it in a color tray next to a E or F GIA.

I guess I am just confused as to how a H&A stone can not be idela all around, given the almost perfect H&A pattern. As for sparkle there was no difference in the HOF, the stone was beautiful. maybe I just need to stop thinking about it so much.

Thanks to all of you.

The most important thing you said is that there was no difference in sparkle. I hope you did compare it in a few different lightings. Diamonds can be sent to EGL for a number of reasons. It’s possible this diamond had great cut but the sender wanted a borderline color or clarity grade to go his way. Let’s all remember that stepping up to high levels of clarity and color still drive pricing more than stepping up in cut…unless you’re looking at a HOF of course.

And there are stones as well-cut that don’t go for as much.

 

[WinkHPD]

RE: The diamond was an EGL diamond. Everyone posts that EGL is not as strict as GIA or AGS. So I still have some confusion. For instance the H&A pattern was beautiful and very distinct. The EGL cert only had the Symatry and Polish as "Very Good" and not "Ideal". How can that be with the perfect H&A pattern? The stone was graded as "ideal".

The H&A is optical symmetry, the symmetry grade on the paper is physical symmetry, thus it is possible to have symmetry grade only very good and the H&A to be beautiful.

Wink

 

[AndyMN]

Wink is right... I''m looking at the GIA diamond grading manual as we type. The definition of symmetry reads as follows; The precision of a finished diamond''s shape and the placement of the facets.
In other words, they''re concerned with the placement of the facets externally and not how the relationship of those facets affect the pattern internally. You need some kind of internal reflector image to judge this. Ideal-scope and ASET work for the crown. Hearts image for the pavilion.