Advice needed for a bad situation...

[jewelerman]

I think its refreshing that you admit your guilt and take ownership of your own wrong doing.That being saidi agree with the forum members that suggest that you talk to an attouney for advice on how to procede with your case.Some courts are sympathitic to people will to own up to their actions and want to make it right.Good luck and remember that what goes around comes around.

 

[AGBF]

crown1, you sound like the kind of person I would like as a neighbor, colleague, or friend: honest and principled. While I esteem those virtues in the people with whom I interact, I would not bring them into a discussion of whether someone should plead guilty to a charge about which I know nothing.

Courtrooms and legal systems are not designed to reward people who wander around innocently confessing and trying to make restitution. Often those people just get themselves into more trouble. Hence my solution to the problem posed is not moral but pragmatic: to shut up and get a lawyer.

I don't want to confuse being honorable in one's daily affairs (as you obviously are) with opening oneself up to find the ceiling come crashing down. To me being honorable is one planet and how to handle this legal matter is another.


Deb

 

[crown1]

i stand firm with my answer. i have understood that the op intends to have legal representation. i believe that has been confirmed by the op stating that intent before i entered the discussion. for those who choose to take the "easy button" and deny guilt when they know they have committed a wrong deed you are free to do so. i personally think you are setting yourself up to lead a selfish life only thinking how situations will impact you personally. i would give the same advise to anyone who sought my counsel. deal with your problem honestly, do what is necessary to best "fix" the situation and go about your life. it is not always about "me". sometimes we have to do the "hard" things to make things better for us later on. if one chooses to "deny" something they did to protect their future that is for them to decide. the first "lie" is the hardest, unfortunately it becomes easier each time you do so.

had someone came to me for advice on what they should do about having committed a serious crime that could require incarceration or possibly death my answer would be the same. once you tell me you have done something i will not tell you to deny it. if you could live with the knowledge that you did it you probably would have keep it to yourself and not have come asking if you should admit guilt. the op admitted guilt and that puts it on us to either say lie and don't admit what you did or fess up and get your best deal. this is personal for each person and we all have to eventually make these decisions ourselves.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 8/29/2008 10:24:12 PM
Author: dreamer_dachsie

Date: 8/29/2008 10:15:22 PM
Author: Harriet
I''ve been thinking about your case and have to say that I agree with Crown. Having a record is not ideal, but you''ll know you did the right thing and may get a reduced sentence.

I''m no lawyer, but ditto... do whatever you need to do to help keep it off your record (maybe something like Storm suggested is possible) but take responsibility for what you did.

PS: I''m so sorry you have found yourself in this situation, and if need be, I hope you are getting some form of help to make sure you never find yourself in this position again!

I also want to clarify to say that this should be done with a Lawyer! Get and good one and follow their advice.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 8/30/2008 10:45:06 AM
Author: crown1
i stand firm with my answer. i have understood that the op intends to have legal representation. i believe that has been confirmed by the op stating that intent before i entered the discussion. for those who choose to take the ''easy button'' and deny guilt when they know they have committed a wrong deed you are free to do so. i personally think you are setting yourself up to lead a selfish life only thinking how situations will impact you personally. i would give the same advise to anyone who sought my counsel. deal with your problem honestly, do what is necessary to best ''fix'' the situation and go about your life. it is not always about ''me''. sometimes we have to do the ''hard'' things to make things better for us later on. if one chooses to ''deny'' something they did to protect their future that is for them to decide. the first ''lie'' is the hardest, unfortunately it becomes easier each time you do so.


had someone came to me for advice on what they should do about having committed a serious crime that could require incarceration or possibly death my answer would be the same. once you tell me you have done something i will not tell you to deny it. if you could live with the knowledge that you did it you probably would have keep it to yourself and not have come asking if you should admit guilt. the op admitted guilt and that puts it on us to either say lie and don''t admit what you did or fess up and get your best deal. this is personal for each person and we all have to eventually make these decisions ourselves.

I don''t think anyone said for the OP to either deny guilt or lie. I''m not sure where you''re getting that from.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 8/30/2008 10:45:06 AM

Author: crown1

had someone came to me for advice on what they should do about having committed a serious crime that could require incarceration or possibly death my answer would be the same.

Well, as thing2of2 said, I never advocated lying. I did advocate shutting up. But your point of view brings up an interesting philosophical question. When does one tell the absolute truth and follow the absolute letter of the law, no matter what the consequences of doing so will be?

In my opinion, Socrates gave us the best example of that. When one believes in the society in which he lives so much that he is willing to accept its verdicts, no matter what they are, he is willing to drink the hemlock. Socrates believed in the democracy of Athens.

If you were in a country where the law of the land was sharia, would you still tell the truth? For example, would you confess to having been raped?

Deborah

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 8/30/2008 5:46:12 AM
Author: jewelerman
I think its refreshing that you admit your guilt and take ownership of your own wrong doing.That being saidi agree with the forum members that suggest that you talk to an attouney for advice on how to procede with your case.Some courts are sympathitic to people will to own up to their actions and want to make it right.Good luck and remember that what goes around comes around.

Iditto. Accepting responsibility and working with a lawyer to explore the best options withinhg that construct are not mutually exclusive -- I don''t think anyone (including Crown1) is advocating that the OP just walk into court, without represention, and plead guilty.

 

[Harriet]

Deb dear,

When Crown urged the OP to ''fess up, he/she had already consulted a number of attorneys. I agreed with Crown, on the assumption that the OP would continue working with a lawyer.

P.S. This thread got me thinking about contractarianism and moral luck, but I won''t discuss either here.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 8/30/2008 4:43:24 PM

Author: Harriet

P.S. This thread got me thinking about contractarianism and moral luck, but I won''t discuss either here.

If not here, where? Will you start another thread? This may be turning into a threadjack, but the underlying philosophical question has started to interest me and you are implying that there is an entire body of material on the matter of which I was unaware. The only question is should the thread be in Hangout or Around the World? You start it, Harriet! I will follow!


Deb

 

[Shay37]

Date: 8/30/2008 8:01:28 AM
Author: AGBF


crown1, you sound like the kind of person I would like as a neighbor, colleague, or friend: honest and principled. While I esteem those virtues in the people with whom I interact, I would not bring them into a discussion of whether someone should plead guilty to a charge about which I know nothing.

Courtrooms and legal systems are not designed to reward people who wander around innocently confessing and trying to make restitution. Often those people just get themselves into more trouble. Hence my solution to the problem posed is not moral but pragmatic: to shut up and get a lawyer.

I don''t want to confuse being honorable in one''s daily affairs (as you obviously are) with opening oneself up to find the ceiling come crashing down. To me being honorable is one planet and how to handle this legal matter is another.


Deb

Unfortunately, in this country, we are entitled to as much justice as we can afford. Deb, I hear ya. I would let the attorney do ALL the talking (hence mouth piece). I say protect yourself. If it was minor and you won''t ever do it again, who cares? There are repeat offenders out there who are completely uncaring as to whom they hurt and when and how often they use an attorney. The system is what it is. Don''t be raped by it. There are so many people who get beat up by it trying to do the RIGHT thing.

Please don''t misconstrue me. I don''t usually advocate not telling the truth. I just feel that the system of justice in this country has some really big landmines waiting for those who are wanting to be honest and trusting.

shay

 

[Harriet]

Date: 8/30/2008 6:08:15 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 8/30/2008 4:43:24 PM

Author: Harriet

P.S. This thread got me thinking about contractarianism and moral luck, but I won''t discuss either here.

If not here, where? Will you start another thread? This may be turning into a threadjack, but the underlying philosophical question has started to interest me and you are implying that there is an entire body of material on the matter of which I was unaware. The only question is should the thread be in Hangout or Around the World? You start it, Harriet! I will follow!


Deb

Anything for you, Deb. I''ll start a thread once I get over my exhaustion. There is a vast body of fascinating literature on both topics.

 

[crown1]

Date: 8/30/2008 9:46:47 PM
Author: Shay37

Date: 8/30/2008 8:01:28 AM
Author: AGBF


crown1, you sound like the kind of person I would like as a neighbor, colleague, or friend: honest and principled. While I esteem those virtues in the people with whom I interact, I would not bring them into a discussion of whether someone should plead guilty to a charge about which I know nothing.

Courtrooms and legal systems are not designed to reward people who wander around innocently confessing and trying to make restitution. Often those people just get themselves into more trouble. Hence my solution to the problem posed is not moral but pragmatic: to shut up and get a lawyer.

I don''t want to confuse being honorable in one''s daily affairs (as you obviously are) with opening oneself up to find the ceiling come crashing down. To me being honorable is one planet and how to handle this legal matter is another.


Deb

Unfortunately, in this country, we are entitled to as much justice as we can afford. Deb, I hear ya. I would let the attorney do ALL the talking (hence mouth piece). I say protect yourself. If it was minor and you won''t ever do it again, who cares? There are repeat offenders out there who are completely uncaring as to whom they hurt and when and how often they use an attorney. The system is what it is. Don''t be raped by it. There are so many people who get beat up by it trying to do the RIGHT thing.

Please don''t misconstrue me. I don''t usually advocate not telling the truth. I just feel that the system of justice in this country has some really big landmines waiting for those who are wanting to be honest and trusting.

shay

i must be truly dense. what is it that you folks don''t understand the concept of hiring an attorney to speak for you and get you a deal that is fair for the crime you admit you have committed. lawyers make a living handling things like this for individuals who get caught. the accused need not run to the police station and beg to be punished but at one time or the other the accused has to tell the attorney how he wishes to plea.

 

[Harriet]

You''re not dense. I agree with what you''re saying.

 

[crown1]

Date: 8/30/2008 10:35:33 PM
Author: Harriet
You''re not dense. I agree with what you''re saying.

thanks! i will sleep better knowing someone gets it.

 

[risingsun]

The OP said that no one else was harmed by her actions. She admits that she was wrong and will never do such a thing again. She will have to live with her own conscience. I agree with the others that she must retain the services of an attorney and follow the advice that is given. Without knowing the facts in this case, I cannot say much more. I have a friend who pleaded guilty to a crime many years ago. She served time in jail. This has now come back to haunt her and she may lose everything she has worked for in the past number of years. She did everything right and now is facing dire circumstances.

 

[HollyS]

The only choice here is to take your lumps; isn''t it? Shouldn''t you suffer a little (and your suffering is pretty minimal by pleading guilty, let''s be honest, okay) for having broken the law? Do you really want to take the chance of losing in court, and having the punishment be more severe, and of course, still having a record?

We learn from our mistakes. Make this a learning experience. And be upfront and honest with your future employers; before they do a background check on you. Hopefully, you aren''t planning a career in law enforcement, security, or teaching. (That was meant as a little joke. Did you smile, maybe just a bit?)

Whatever you did, I''m sure you''re sorry; now just face the music, get through it, and let it make you a better person. You''ll be okay.

 

[violet02]

My friend who''s over 40 now shoplifted in his 20s... he got busted for it... I don''t know the nitty gritty details but he''s a good guy, can''t imagine it was that bad.

Anyways he''s been in and out of contract jobs for years since the dot com bubble burst. Not for great pay either. He finally got a great opportunity at a financial institution doing web development for their site. Great pay with the potential for full time employment. Unfortunately he didn''t think about the fact that a banking instituation is going to definitely do a background check on you. He''d totally forgotten about that one shoplifting charge. They let him go for that.... Not a great situation.

I would for sure get a lawyer. And I agree that just because you lawyer up you''re not denying guilt per se, you are getting representation to help you get through the legal hurdles of the situation you''re in. When I got a ''reckless driving'' speeding ticket for 105mph (MANY years ago and yes I was really going only 85 and that police officer hated me, I was in a an toyota camry for petes sake)... I had my lawyer friend represent me in court. I knew I was going to get busted for it, I paid the fine, went to traffic school, the works... but my lawyer also got the judge to allow me to keep my license which would have really screwed me had i lost it and had no transportation to work. Even in a situation where you may not want to ''fight'' it in court per se, your lawyer can help work out a deal for you that would be better than just walking in saying hey i''m guilty throw the book at me.

 

[diamondfan]

I think it is fair to assume that the OP has regretted what was done, and is very unlikely to do it again.

It is also true that one has to live with his or her own conscience, and I think the OP has made it clear he feels terribly.

The issue here, and one I try to pound into my kids'' brains is that ONE indiscretion, ONE stupid lack of judgment at the wrong time or place, and it can really follow you around and mess you up. And I think we have all done things we are not particularly proud of, and most of us have not gotten in trouble over it, and we can say, Oh, that was not good, better not do that again.

I think everyone deserves a chance to make things right. And as long as it was not rape or murder or child molestation or some other terrible criminal act in which anyone was harmed, I think it is best to be honest, but get a lawyer to help navigate this. I am sure one could admit guilt and in not having a lawyer really make things worse for themselves. Just because one gets a lawyer it does not mean they are not taking accountability for their actions or misdeeds.

 

[crown1]

Date: 9/1/2008 1:56:38 AM
Author: diamondfan
I think it is fair to assume that the OP has regretted what was done, and is very unlikely to do it again.

It is also true that one has to live with his or her own conscience, and I think the OP has made it clear he feels terribly.

The issue here, and one I try to pound into my kids'' brains is that ONE indiscretion, ONE stupid lack of judgment at the wrong time or place, and it can really follow you around and mess you up. And I think we have all done things we are not particularly proud of, and most of us have not gotten in trouble over it, and we can say, Oh, that was not good, better not do that again.

I think everyone deserves a chance to make things right. And as long as it was not rape or murder or child molestation or some other terrible criminal act in which anyone was harmed, I think it is best to be honest, but get a lawyer to help navigate this. I am sure one could admit guilt and in not having a lawyer really make things worse for themselves. Just because one gets a lawyer it does not mean they are not taking accountability for their actions or misdeeds.

hi caroline! from reading your posts i know you employ a nanny and possibly others in your home. i seem to remember you having lost some items at one time? would you not want to be able to make an informed decision about employing someone who had previously committed any offense that would carry a possible fine of 15,000 and attorney fees of 9000? i am not against second chances just informed ones. there are many people i know and like but i would not ask them to hold my purse.

 

[diamondfan]

Not sure I think they are connected. Of course I would want to know if someone had a criminal record. But a misdemeanor is somewhat different. Again, we do not know what was done. It could be something fairly minor and the job arena this person is in might not be impacted. It is different having someone in your home, around your children. I might still hire someone if I knew something, as long as I felt it was a one time thing and it did not impact their ability in my home. (like someone stealing food to feed their child). However, my preference would be that I am in the know about it first, and I would likely pass on them. She was also not my nanny, but my cleaning girl, not that it makes too much difference as she had access to my home.

I certainly hope you never transgress or get caught up in something that could stay with you. What if the scenario was something like this? A couple of guys are in a bar and a fight breaks out. They did not start it and they do not participate but they do try to stop it at some point. The cops come, everyone gets arrested. Honestly, a chain of events can happen and wheels get set in motion, and there you are, not meaning to be and really not having done anything that bad.

it is premature on one hand though as we have NO CLUE what the OP did, but again, legally, a misdemeanor is different than a criminal offense, and there are so many variables at play here...all I said was that they should have a lawyer to help them take the consequences as best as they can, and try to salvage something out of this.

PS, I never filed any charges against my nanny. I got one item back, the rest I assumed was hocked or sold or whatever, and she had a small daughter she took care of. I figured, get her out of my home, tell my friends who also used her as I now had PROOF that she stole, tell anyone who knew her and knew she worked for me that she no longer did and had no authority to get my son from school (she knew where all of my kids went to school and he was so young he would have gone with her if she showed up), I changed my locks, and told her if I heard from her again I WOULD press charges. She had very skanky friends in her world and might have even been affiliated with elements I wanted no part of, and even if I pressed charges who knew what would occur from it. I was glad that I found out the truth and that I was not crazy, but at the end of the day I was somewhat limited and I wanted her out of my house but for the safety of my family did not pursue it.

 

[akw94]

Date: 8/29/2008 4:48:51 PM
Author:MES00613
Hello to the wonderful PSers... I have posted on this forum before, but needed to make this post in anonymity.

This is going to be a little heavy, but I would appreciate any constructive input.



I need advice on the following situation...

If you were arrested for something (misdemeanor) that you are guilty of, would you:

1) Take the punishment (in this case it would not be jail time, just would be on my record for a long time, and would show up on any future inquires for jobs or any kind of background check) as well as all the money in fines etc... up to $15,000.

2) Try to fight this in court (with minimum attorney expenditures of $9,000) obviously with no guarantee that you win.

Would you own up and face the consequences pleading guilty or would you hire an attorney and try to fight it?

Hi, it sounds like you''re on the right track but as a lawyer, I definitely advocate getting a lawyer. You don''t just want one to consult, you want one at court regardless of whether you''re going to trial. They are not just for going to trial. Most lawyers on the State side will barely deal with someone without a lawyer and you certainly won''t get any great deals by going in there on your own. Your attorney will know what questions to ask, what sort of evidence the State has, what are all the various plea bargain options, how likely is the Judge to go along with the plea, etc... Keep in mind, the Judge doesn''t create the plea, it is an agreement between two lawyers and the defendant. The Judge can go along with it, change it or dismiss it all together, it''s his/her choice. Generally, Judge''s go along with the plea unless they feel it''s not harsh enough.
Also, if the charge is a misdemeanor, you should realize that jail time is a possibility. It may not be likely but no lawyer can tell you that there''s a guarantee of no jail time, especially at trial. They cannot make guarantees and as said before, can''t even guarantee that the plea will go through, even though it probably would.
You absolutely cannot make the decision of whether to plea or go to trial until your court date. You will not know what plea the State is offering until your court date. Therefore, you can''t determine if it''s a good plea or not. Realize, the State must be able to *prove* you guilty at trial, it''s not as simple as whether you did it or not or whether you feel you should face the consequences or not.
Also know that if convicted, this could stay on your record for life, not just for a long time. It really depends on what the offer is though. Your lawyer will be able to explain whether they''re making you a deal that is later expungeable or not, i.e., whether it can be taken off your record or not.
Something that people don''t understand is that any arrest, conviction or dismissal remains on your record FOR LIFE unless you get it expunged. That is a separate process through the courts but not automatic. Sometimes, supervision can be expunged after a certain amount of years, certain types of probation can be also. Dismissals can be expunged but sometimes you have to wait a certain amount of time first. You should know this before you make the decision on whether to plea or go to trial.

Please get a lawyer; they are invaluable. It is their job to know the answers to your questions and to help you in the way that''s best for you. They can''t make decisions for you but they can give you the necessary information so that you can make informed choices.

Hope that was helpful.

 

[MES00613]

Thank you to everyone for your responses.

Crown1, I am not trying to lie and say I didn''t commit the action that caused my arrest. As some of the posters on this thread have said I am just trying not to get scr*wed by the legal system.
I understand that what I did was wrong (hence why it is illegal), and I am not trying to say that I am going to hire a lawyer so that I can plead not-guilty. I wanted to know if the lawyer was worth the $$$ for the advice and gained knowledge. The answer to that question is a resonating "yes".

Again, thank you everyone for the responses and perspective. I value all of them.

 

[crown1]

Date: 9/2/2008 1:12:27 PM
Author: MES00613
Thank you to everyone for your responses.

Crown1, I am not trying to lie and say I didn''t commit the action that caused my arrest. As some of the posters on this thread have said I am just trying not to get scr*wed by the legal system.
I understand that what I did was wrong (hence why it is illegal), and I am not trying to say that I am going to hire a lawyer so that I can plead not-guilty. I wanted to know if the lawyer was worth the $$$ for the advice and gained knowledge. The answer to that question is a resonating ''yes''.

Again, thank you everyone for the responses and perspective. I value all of them.

mesoo613, i never said your were trying to lie and say you did not commit an action that resulted in your arrest. my response here has been to other posters who urged you to not consider a guilty plea or to simply shut up. i believe my advise was to get an attorney to represent you and to help get you the best deal while owning up to what you did. the reason i say own up to what you did is because you have admitted guilt here. had you come here and said you were not guilty of an illegal act i would not have suggested it would be a lie to plea "not guilty".

since you have called me on my response i will tell you how i feel about what you have posted. you admitted to an illegal act, cautioned us to not hassel you over it as you understood it was wrong and were sorry. then everybody proceeded to blame the system when none of us even knew your offense. i am not saying you have committed a dastardly deed but the fact is you didn''t give details and many were willing to blame the system without even knowing you or what you had done.

this is an internet forum and all are free to their opinions but jumping to the defense of people who come here and "vent" about the system or others who they are associated with has become popular here. i read posts where many come to defend someone and rip the system or the individual who is being posted about when we only get one side of the story. i would have had more sympathy if you had been willing to tell the whole story.

i don''t think my opinion on this is popular here but i am "entitled" to it as well as you are "entitled" to your day in court or the best deal your attorney can negotiate for you.

 

[violet02]

Date: 9/1/2008 8:10:58 AM
Author: crown1

Date: 9/1/2008 1:56:38 AM
Author: diamondfan
I think it is fair to assume that the OP has regretted what was done, and is very unlikely to do it again.

It is also true that one has to live with his or her own conscience, and I think the OP has made it clear he feels terribly.

The issue here, and one I try to pound into my kids'' brains is that ONE indiscretion, ONE stupid lack of judgment at the wrong time or place, and it can really follow you around and mess you up. And I think we have all done things we are not particularly proud of, and most of us have not gotten in trouble over it, and we can say, Oh, that was not good, better not do that again.

I think everyone deserves a chance to make things right. And as long as it was not rape or murder or child molestation or some other terrible criminal act in which anyone was harmed, I think it is best to be honest, but get a lawyer to help navigate this. I am sure one could admit guilt and in not having a lawyer really make things worse for themselves. Just because one gets a lawyer it does not mean they are not taking accountability for their actions or misdeeds.

hi caroline! from reading your posts i know you employ a nanny and possibly others in your home. i seem to remember you having lost some items at one time? would you not want to be able to make an informed decision about employing someone who had previously committed any offense that would carry a possible fine of 15,000 and attorney fees of 9000? i am not against second chances just informed ones. there are many people i know and like but i would not ask them to hold my purse.

Not sure what happened here... don''t need to know all of the nitty gritty but nannys and housecleaners can be licensed, insured, bonded when hired... Although nothing is ever a sure thing... (I was a houselceaner in high scool for Merry Maids, we were represented as licensed, insured, bonded, what have you... I could have still stolen, who was to stop me? But I didn''t!)... but I would think that the people you hire through would I hope at least do a background check and offer some sort of insurance against any incidents from happening. I would assume that the service that I hired my houselceaner from who did a background check would see if that person was a thief or not... and who knows, maybe some great lawyer got them out of something they may have done, there''s so many WHAT IF''s there...

And Crown1, you actually know people, like them and wouldn''t let them hold your purse? Really? I can''t think of a single person I know, and actually ''like'' and may see out and about that I wouldn''t trust to hold my purse.

Anyways we don''t even know what the OP did... I''ve had multiple friends in court for multiple things, some guilty that aren''t maybe as bad as you may picture in your mind.

I had a friend that was busted for a felony a couple years back. She wouldn''t tell a soul what it was for until much later... she had a ton of legal fees was in court for months, spent the night in jail you name it. Turns out she''d gotten in a huge argument with an ex, stormed over to his house, they got in a screaming match, she tried to take stuff out of his house she claimed was hers, they fought, pushed, shoved... she threw his camera out the window... he pressed charges... she went to jail for assault... (we''re talking shoving and throwing stuff here, not punching). He dropped the charges, the DA did NOT.. (their perogative)... she was later found ''not guilty'' but not after spending all of her savings and a year in court. She did admit that going to his house and causing that ruckus was an irresponsible wrong thing to do though... so she understood some of the reprecussions. But she''s not a maniac or a horrible person.

Just saying.

Anyways, I''m always a fan of getting legal advice. No harm in that.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 9/3/2008 6:31:19 AM
Author: crown1

mesoo613, i never said your were trying to lie and say you did not commit an action that resulted in your arrest. my response here has been to other posters who urged you to not consider a guilty plea or to simply shut up. i believe my advise was to get an attorney to represent you and to help get you the best deal while owning up to what you did. the reason i say own up to what you did is because you have admitted guilt here. had you come here and said you were not guilty of an illegal act i would not have suggested it would be a lie to plea ''not guilty''.

since you have called me on my response i will tell you how i feel about what you have posted. you admitted to an illegal act, cautioned us to not hassel you over it as you understood it was wrong and were sorry. then everybody proceeded to blame the system when none of us even knew your offense. i am not saying you have committed a dastardly deed but the fact is you didn''t give details and many were willing to blame the system without even knowing you or what you had done.

this is an internet forum and all are free to their opinions but jumping to the defense of people who come here and ''vent'' about the system or others who they are associated with has become popular here. i read posts where many come to defend someone and rip the system or the individual who is being posted about when we only get one side of the story. i would have had more sympathy if you had been willing to tell the whole story.

i don''t think my opinion on this is popular here but i am ''entitled'' to it as well as you are ''entitled'' to your day in court or the best deal your attorney can negotiate for you.

I have bit my tongue so far on this thread, but I just have to say that Crown1 I really disagree with you. I think you have made some harsh generalizations here.
I do not see anyone in this thread "blaming the system", simply expressing their disappointment and perhaps frustration with said system.
I have to agree - with my knowledge of the US criminal justice system, I am very glad I will never be before it..

I also have to agree with a pp who mentioned, lets hope you never find yourself in some kind of situation where you will need the benefit of the doubt of the community and the system..

Yes, of course you are entitled to your opinion, but the OP is also entitled to asking for anonymous advice without spelling out their alleged crime for the world to analyze.

 

[crown1]

Date: 9/3/2008 6:56:37 AM
Author: arjunajane

Date: 9/3/2008 6:31:19 AM
Author: crown1




mesoo613, i never said your were trying to lie and say you did not commit an action that resulted in your arrest. my response here has been to other posters who urged you to not consider a guilty plea or to simply shut up. i believe my advise was to get an attorney to represent you and to help get you the best deal while owning up to what you did. the reason i say own up to what you did is because you have admitted guilt here. had you come here and said you were not guilty of an illegal act i would not have suggested it would be a lie to plea ''not guilty''.

since you have called me on my response i will tell you how i feel about what you have posted. you admitted to an illegal act, cautioned us to not hassel you over it as you understood it was wrong and were sorry. then everybody proceeded to blame the system when none of us even knew your offense. i am not saying you have committed a dastardly deed but the fact is you didn''t give details and many were willing to blame the system without even knowing you or what you had done.

this is an internet forum and all are free to their opinions but jumping to the defense of people who come here and ''vent'' about the system or others who they are associated with has become popular here. i read posts where many come to defend someone and rip the system or the individual who is being posted about when we only get one side of the story. i would have had more sympathy if you had been willing to tell the whole story.

i don''t think my opinion on this is popular here but i am ''entitled'' to it as well as you are ''entitled'' to your day in court or the best deal your attorney can negotiate for you.

I have bit my tongue so far on this thread, but I just have to say that Crown1 I really disagree with you. I think you have made some harsh generalizations here.
I do not see anyone in this thread ''blaming the system'', simply expressing their disappointment and perhaps frustration with said system.
I have to agree - with my knowledge of the US criminal justice system, I am very glad I will never be before it..

I also have to agree with a pp who mentioned, lets hope you never find yourself in some kind of situation where you will need the benefit of the doubt of the community and the system..

Yes, of course you are entitled to your opinion, but the OP is also entitled to asking for anonymous advice without spelling out their alleged crime for the world to analyze.

any one of us may be before the system. we do not know what tomorrow will bring. that does not mean that we will not be treated fairly or that we don''t deserve to have to answer for what we have done. i have not always agreed with the way i or others have been treated but that does not mean that i think that laws should not be enforced and people should not have their day in court. there are always two sides and we have to treat the accused and the accuser with equal rights. i only wish that everyone was as zealous about working for change if they think the system is wrong as they are about complaining. again my gripe here is not with op but with everyone willing to think op, who stated he or she was guilty, was getting a raw deal without knowing details.

maybe you could give me a little of that " benefit of the doubt of the community" right now? my mistake was posting in this thread at all. i truly know better.

 

[violet02]

Crown1, I don't think you made a mistake at all in posting in this thread. Everyone is indeed entitled to an opinion here.

I do see what you're saying... I think the main message in this thread should be 'get legal advice', the end, period stop.

I'm not sure what the situation is with getting 'raw deals' in the OP's case but of course raw deals can happen in any legal situation whether deserved or not. I was a law student at one time and got a pre-law degree. One thing I came to really understand over time is there are flaws in the system and not everyone is going to get a perfectly fair trial/deal/judgement. Take a trial for example, you're judged by a jury of your peers and who's to say those peers are really judging your fairly or not? You hope they are but nothing is exactly fair sometimes.

We can't say what should/will happen to the OP, because we have no idea. No matter what the crime. We can't say they deserve it, should get a 'better' deal, got a 'bad deal', 'the legal system sucks' or anything of the sort (in regards to the OP's original post). All we probably should do is answer the question, yes, get legal advice. It's true, we don't know the whole story and do we need to? I don't think so if we're just answering the original questions. Anything judging beyond that who's to say, because we don't know. But to add anything else to the discussion then starts assumptions about what may have happened. Who's to say, so it's hard to discuss with no info. Then when people add their additional opinions of course others weill respond in kind to those opinions.

Anyways Crown1, everyone is entitled to their opinion absolutely. As you are as well.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 9/1/2008 8:52:59 PM

Author: dixie94


...I definitely advocate getting a lawyer. You don't just want one to consult, you want one at court regardless of whether you're going to trial. They are not just for going to trial. Most lawyers on the State side will barely deal with someone without a lawyer and you certainly won't get any great deals by going in there on your own. Your attorney will know what questions to ask, what sort of evidence the State has, what are all the various plea bargain options, how likely is the Judge to go along with the plea, etc... Keep in mind, the Judge doesn't create the plea, it is an agreement between two lawyers and the defendant. The Judge can go along with it, change it or dismiss it all together, it's his/her choice. Generally, Judge's go along with the plea unless they feel it's not harsh enough.

...

dixie, I haven't been reading this thread every day so I didn't read your posting immediately. I wanted to tell you that I think it was incredibly informative and helpful, however. It really made specific so many of the issues that could be handled by an attorney iin and out of court with a client, issues about which I would never have thought since I have no knowledge of the criminal justice system. You were able to walk the reader through the process and show why, even if he wanted to plead guilty, an attorney was invaluable.


Thank you so much for taking the time to post to this thread and share your professional expertise.


Best wishes,
Deborah

 

[MES00613]

Date: 9/3/2008 6:31:19 AM
Author: crown1

mesoo613, i never said your were trying to lie and say you did not commit an action that resulted in your arrest. my response here has been to other posters who urged you to not consider a guilty plea or to simply shut up. i believe my advise was to get an attorney to represent you and to help get you the best deal while owning up to what you did. the reason i say own up to what you did is because you have admitted guilt here. had you come here and said you were not guilty of an illegal act i would not have suggested it would be a lie to plea ''not guilty''.

since you have called me on my response i will tell you how i feel about what you have posted. you admitted to an illegal act, cautioned us to not hassel you over it as you understood it was wrong and were sorry. then everybody proceeded to blame the system when none of us even knew your offense. i am not saying you have committed a dastardly deed but the fact is you didn''t give details and many were willing to blame the system without even knowing you or what you had done.

this is an internet forum and all are free to their opinions but jumping to the defense of people who come here and ''vent'' about the system or others who they are associated with has become popular here. i read posts where many come to defend someone and rip the system or the individual who is being posted about when we only get one side of the story. i would have had more sympathy if you had been willing to tell the whole story.

i don''t think my opinion on this is popular here but i am ''entitled'' to it as well as you are ''entitled'' to your day in court or the best deal your attorney can negotiate for you.

Crown1... I have no problem with your opinion, and you were very constructive with your responses (they were not mean nor did you show malice), I was just responding to you to attempt to clarify what I meant. I am in no way trying to advocate pleading not guilty to a crime I know I am guilty of, actually I would rather plead guilty. However my question was about legal representation and if I really needed it. Obviously you know that answer (and gave it to me) as well as the other posters on this thread.
Also, posting the whole story really wouldn''t change anything since I don''t really need advice on the crime I committed... I just wanted to hear about the legal aspects.
There is no need for you to feel like you shouldn''t have posted on this thread.


Again, thank you to everyone for the responses, and thank you to Panda and Dixie for the great legal perspectives.

 

[diamondfan]

Violet, I used agencies and word of mouth too. Surprisingly though you pay an agency thousands, they really do not do much in the way of thorough checking. Often I would call to check a reference and found the agency did a very cursory job. They leave a lot up to the hiring party it seems. The agency I used does a drug screen, but AFTER you agree to hire the person and it is a separate charge, which is fine, but it is not part of their screen. Often if someone comes here from another country there is not a lot of information to get gotten. Also, the only way someone will have a criminal record is if they were caught. I think many times someone working in your home can get away with things and by the time you notice them missing they are either gone or say they did not do it. It is very tricky. I recall one incident where a school bus driver had a terrible driving record and lost his job but on an application to work as a bus driver in another state his information was input incorrectly and his name misspelled so the background and dmv checks did not show anything. This came out later when he was fired again for erratic driving.