Advice needed for a bad situation...

[MES00613]

Hello to the wonderful PSers... I have posted on this forum before, but needed to make this post in anonymity.
This is going to be a little heavy, but I would appreciate any constructive input.

I need advice on the following situation...

If you were arrested for something (misdemeanor) that you are guilty of, would you:

1) Take the punishment (in this case it would not be jail time, just would be on my record for a long time, and would show up on any future inquires for jobs or any kind of background check) as well as all the money in fines etc... up to $15,000.

2) Try to fight this in court (with minimum attorney expenditures of $9,000) obviously with no guarantee that you win.

Would you own up and face the consequences pleading guilty or would you hire an attorney and try to fight it?
Okay, yes I know I did something illegal and wrong. No one was hurt. If I am convicted this stays with me for a long time and stays on my record for a long time... any background check at future jobs will see it.

Can anyone give me some perspective or advice? Please do not pass judgment on my actions (even though I do not say what they are), I know what I did was wrong and I am sorry – I should not have broken the law.

TYIA

 

[Loves Vintage]

I assume fighting it in court would mean going before a judge only. Have you discussed with an attorney already? What were his or her thoughts on whether you''d be successful in fighting the charge? Is there a chance that you could work something out so that it would not appear on your record? For example, still pay the fine, but not have the charge on your record?

 

[oobiecoo]

If you are guilty then how would you try to fight it? Is there a possibility of still paying your fine or whatever but also having it erased from your record with good conduct if you fight it? If so, then I''d go that route... otherwise I''d just pay up and maybe do counseling or classes of some sort that relate to your charge so you can let future employers know that you truly are sorry for what you did and have tried to change your behavior.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

I think it would be worthwhile to talk to an attorney. I work for an attorney who does criminal defense work, and he offers consultations for $50, where he talks to you a little bit about your case and gives you whatever preliminary advice he can (like would it be worth fighting the charges, could you plea bargain, etc.). Good luck!

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 8/29/2008 4:59:50 PM
Author: Irishgrrrl
I think it would be worthwhile to talk to an attorney. I work for an attorney who does criminal defense work, and he offers consultations for $50, where he talks to you a little bit about your case and gives you whatever preliminary advice he can (like would it be worth fighting the charges, could you plea bargain, etc.). Good luck!

Ditto.

 

[MES00613]

Hi, thank you for the responses

Yes I have consulted with an attorney and they said it is a case that could result in a lesser penalty (one that would not go on my record), and that they feel it is defend-able. They did not give me numbers on the exact likely hood that it would result in a reduced penalty but did say that they have had many cases worse than mine that have come out well (i.e. dismissed or reduced penalty).

LovesVintage -- If this did go to trial it would be a jury trial.

 

[MES00613]

Date: 8/29/2008 4:59:09 PM
Author: oobiecoo
If you are guilty then how would you try to fight it? Is there a possibility of still paying your fine or whatever but also having it erased from your record with good conduct if you fight it? If so, then I''d go that route... otherwise I''d just pay up and maybe do counseling or classes of some sort that relate to your charge so you can let future employers know that you truly are sorry for what you did and have tried to change your behavior.

I do not think so. Once it is there it stays there for the set time.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Date: 8/29/2008 5:02:45 PM
Author: MES00613
Hi, thank you for the responses

Yes I have consulted with an attorney and they said it is a case that could result in a lesser penalty (one that would not go on my record), and that they feel it is defend-able. They did not give me numbers on the exact likely hood that it would result in a reduced penalty but did say that they have had many cases worse than mine that have come out well (i.e. dismissed or reduced penalty).

LovesVintage -- If this did go to trial it would be a jury trial.

But, it won''t go to trial if you can plea bargain with the judge, first, right? If that''s what the attorney is telling you, then I would go that route. No sense in having this on your record if everyone else out there (committing the same misdemeanor) doesn''t have it on theirs. I would recommend speaking with another attorney or two before you make a final decision. If they also tell you that many of these cases get dismissed or a reduced penalty, then I would say fight it.

I know it does sound "right" (since you acknowledged your guilt) but this is how our system is set up. You made a mistake, and now you have to work within the system to get the best outcome you can.

Good luck to you.

 

[MES00613]

Date: 8/29/2008 5:13:09 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

Date: 8/29/2008 5:02:45 PM
Author: MES00613
Hi, thank you for the responses

Yes I have consulted with an attorney and they said it is a case that could result in a lesser penalty (one that would not go on my record), and that they feel it is defend-able. They did not give me numbers on the exact likely hood that it would result in a reduced penalty but did say that they have had many cases worse than mine that have come out well (i.e. dismissed or reduced penalty).

LovesVintage -- If this did go to trial it would be a jury trial.

But, it won''t go to trial if you can plea bargain with the judge, first, right? If that''s what the attorney is telling you, then I would go that route. No sense in having this on your record if everyone else out there (committing the same misdemeanor) doesn''t have it on theirs. I would recommend speaking with another attorney or two before you make a final decision. If they also tell you that many of these cases get dismissed or a reduced penalty, then I would say fight it.

I know it does sound ''right'' (since you acknowledged your guilt) but this is how our system is set up. You made a mistake, and now you have to work within the system to get the best outcome you can.

Good luck to you.

Right, which is what the attorney I spoke with said also. They have a lot of cases that never make it to trial due to reduced penalty or dismissal.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

 

[BriBee]

I would try to fight it. It looks like this might mean that you would pay more money due to the attorney fees plus possible fines. However, maybe your attorney can get your fines lowered and that would help. My feeling is that it is worth the extra money to try and get this to not be on your record. You seem to be concerned that background checks for jobs would find this on your record. The question is....is it worth it to pay less money by not fighting, but then you might lose out on some job opportunities, which would end up costing your more money in potential lost salaries down the road. That''s why I say fight it. Hopefully you''ll be successful and because it won''t be on your record you will be a better candidate for future jobs which will hopefully bring you more money and you''ll be able to earn back the extra money paid in attorney fees.

 

[swingirl]

I would try to keep it off my record.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 8/29/2008 5:04:39 PM
Author: MES00613

I do not think so. Once it is there it stays there for the set time.

That statement is why you need a lawyer.
Unless its a dui which there is no way to keep off your record there are 3 or 4 different ways of doing that.
One is I forget the legal term but it works like this:
The judge puts the case on hold pending you completing the requirements.
A lot of judges will require community service to allow this.
Then when you have paid your fine and done your service and stayed out of trouble for the required time often 6 months to a year the case is dismissed and does not appear on your record.
If you do not complete the requirements it works as a guilty plea and goes on your record and has added penalties on top of what was already done.
The down side is that not completing it can result in jail time for an offense that normally doesn't carry jail time because you ticked off the judge and he had you jailed for contempt or even worse.
Judges do not like people that do not keep their word when cut a break.

This needs to be arranged by a lawyer as they can say things you cant without hurting future responses to the charges if the prosecutor does not want to go along.
The prosecutor and your attorney will generally know what the judge will want if not they may ask for guidance but the judge has the final say and can make changes.
If the prosecutor and your lawyer cant agree then the details are up to the Judge but Judges don't like getting bogged down by this and would rather be presented with a deal to sign off on rather than have to do it themselves.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 8/29/2008 5:22:10 PM
Author: BriBee
I would try to fight it. It looks like this might mean that you would pay more money due to the attorney fees plus possible fines. However, maybe your attorney can get your fines lowered and that would help. My feeling is that it is worth the extra money to try and get this to not be on your record. You seem to be concerned that background checks for jobs would find this on your record. The question is....is it worth it to pay less money by not fighting, but then you might lose out on some job opportunities, which would end up costing your more money in potential lost salaries down the road. That''s why I say fight it. Hopefully you''ll be successful and because it won''t be on your record you will be a better candidate for future jobs which will hopefully bring you more money and you''ll be able to earn back the extra money paid in attorney fees.

Yep, I was thinking about lost wage potential too. Just because you''re guilty, doesn''t mean your lawyer cannot get you off. It''s worth a shot!

Good luck.

 

[panda08]

You should definitely get a lawyer and I''m not just saying that because I''m a lawyer. The legal system is complicated and even if you decide to "take the punishment" and plead guilty or no contest, retaining a lawyer will help you understand what penalties you are facing, how it will or will not impact your record and help you navigate through the plea process. If you plead guilty, a lawyer is in a better position to help you potentially plea down the charges (e.g., misdemeanor to infraction) or the penalties (e.g., jail time to probation).

If you decide to "fight" it and go to trial, that is your constitutional right, even if you are "guilty". You can stand silent and make the prosecution bear their burden of proving your guilt beyond a reasonable doubt or you can argue whatever legal defense you may have (e.g., illegal search and seizure, lack of probable cause, etc.) that may help you win. A lawyer can tell you whether you have such defenses or whether you''re better off pleading guilty. Though I know most people want to know their percent chance of winning, good lawyers shouldn''t tell you that because it''s nothing but a guess. Going to trial is fraught with uncertainty. You never know who''s going to be on the jury and jurors can act capriciously.

I guess my advice is to get a lawyer and ask a lot of questions. Educate yourself about the process and the potential penalties before you make a decision that may have a lasting impact.

Good luck! I hope everything works out for you.

 

[MES00613]

Thank you everyone for the advice.

I spoke with another attorney today (so I have consulted 3 total now) who said pretty much the same as the first two. That they defend many cases like this, have had good success at many of them but do not know the individual chances until they review the file and can look at the facts.

I am going to try to choose which lawyer I will retain and then go from there. Besides word of mouth, how do I choose a lawyer based on my initial consultations?

Thanks again.

 

[panda08]

Date: 8/29/2008 6:00:49 PM
Author: MES00613
Thank you everyone for the advice.

I spoke with another attorney today (so I have consulted 3 total now) who said pretty much the same as the first two. That they defend many cases like this, have had good success at many of them but do not know the individual chances until they review the file and can look at the facts.

I am going to try to choose which lawyer I will retain and then go from there. Besides word of mouth, how do I choose a lawyer based on my initial consultations?

Thanks again.

Look the person up on your state''s bar website. If your state doesn''t have a website, call up the state bar. See if the person has any records of disclipline or complaints. See what law school he/she went to; how long he/she has been in practice. Some states have certified specialists in certain areas of the law. See if the person you''re considering is a criminal law specialist, if there is such a certification in your state. Ask the state bar for references.

Google the person''s name. See if they''ve published any articles or are part of any relevant legal organizations. Or see if anyone has complained about or praised that person in any forum.

Ask your lawyer about his/her experience. How many cases of your kind has he/she handled? How long has he/she been practicing in criminal law? Where''d he/she get that experience? Look for someone who''s been a D.A. or a public defender, preferably for an appreciable amount of time. Ask if he/she practices before the court you''re going to be in. It''s a good idea to find someone who regularly practices criminal law in the court you''re going to be in because he or she will likely have a relationship with the D.A.''s office and the judges.

 

[MES00613]

Date: 8/29/2008 6:15:08 PM
Author: panda08

Look the person up on your state''s bar website. If your state doesn''t have a website, call up the state bar. See if the person has any records of disclipline or complaints. See what law school he/she went to; how long he/she has been in practice. Some states have certified specialists in certain areas of the law. See if the person you''re considering is a criminal law specialist, if there is such a certification in your state. Ask the state bar for references.

Google the person''s name. See if they''ve published any articles or are part of any relevant legal organizations. Or see if anyone has complained about or praised that person in any forum.

Ask your lawyer about his/her experience. How many cases of your kind has he/she handled? How long has he/she been practicing in criminal law? Where''d he/she get that experience? Look for someone who''s been a D.A. or a public defender, preferably for an appreciable amount of time. Ask if he/she practices before the court you''re going to be in. It''s a good idea to find someone who regularly practices criminal law in the court you''re going to be in because he or she will likely have a relationship with the D.A.''s office and the judges.

The first lawyer I spoke with seems to meet a lot of that criteria. I have not looked him up through the Bar yet, but I will do that before I make my decision.

Thanks so much for all your advice!

 

[vespergirl]

You should fight it. It''s hard to say how lenient the judge will be - something like shoplifting or possession of marijuana is usually looked on more leniently than, say, a repeat DUI offender, but I know several people who''ve made the stupid mistake of drinking then driving, and ended up getting off with just a fine because it was their first arrest on a previously clean record. Also, depending on your state, they could be more or less lenient.

Either way, you should definitely have an attorney represent you, no matter what you do. I worked in law firms for 10 years, and a good lawyer can work magic. I wouldn''t just plean guilty or represent yourself.

 

[crown1]

hi! i am sorry you have gotten into this situation. since you admit you are guilty i think you should make a guilty plea and try to get a reduced or suspended sentence. maybe community service? you need to do what you think is right and what you can live with later. especially if people know you are guilty and you plead otherwise.

sometimes people have more respect for someone who finds themselves on the wrong side of the law when they acknowledge their wrong doing and try to make amends and are apologetic. i think if you take responsibility it is a step in the right direction. i wish you good luck.

 

[Harriet]

Another source of attorney bios is: www.martindale.com Good luck!

 

[angel_nieves]

Date: 8/29/2008 7:59:46 PM
Author: crown1
hi! i am sorry you have gotten into this situation. since you admit you are guilty i think you should make a guilty plea and try to get a reduced or suspended sentence. maybe community service? you need to do what you think is right and what you can live with later. especially if people know you are guilty and you plead otherwise.

sometimes people have more respect for someone who finds themselves on the wrong side of the law when they acknowledge their wrong doing and try to make amends and are apologetic. i think if you take responsibility it is a step in the right direction. i wish you good luck.

I agree with crown.

 

[Harriet]

I''ve been thinking about your case and have to say that I agree with Crown. Having a record is not ideal, but you''ll know you did the right thing and may get a reduced sentence.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 8/29/2008 10:15:22 PM
Author: Harriet
I've been thinking about your case and have to say that I agree with Crown. Having a record is not ideal, but you'll know you did the right thing and may get a reduced sentence.

I'm no lawyer, but ditto... do whatever you need to do to help keep it off your record (maybe something like Storm suggested is possible) but take responsibility for what you did.

PS: I'm so sorry you have found yourself in this situation, and if need be, I hope you are getting some form of help to make sure you never find yourself in this position again!

 

[VRBeauty]

Date: 8/29/2008 7:59:46 PM
Author: crown1
hi! i am sorry you have gotten into this situation. since you admit you are guilty i think you should make a guilty plea and try to get a reduced or suspended sentence. maybe community service? you need to do what you think is right and what you can live with later. especially if people know you are guilty and you plead otherwise.

sometimes people have more respect for someone who finds themselves on the wrong side of the law when they acknowledge their wrong doing and try to make amends and are apologetic. i think if you take responsibility it is a step in the right direction. i wish you good luck.

I am not an attorney and not in the field of law, but my gut reaction was the same as Crown1's advice. The question to me is not so much what you can get away with, but what will best help you forgive yourself, learn from the experience, and move on. OK, so I'm not a psychologist either, but... from the fact that you're asking us for input, I'm guessing that you're not totally comfortable with a not guilty plea despite the possible long-term consequences.

I'd ask about whether suspended sentences or community service are ever offered in cases like yours.

 

[AGBF]

Uh oh! Everyone has been saying that he agrees with crown1, but crown1 just said to plead guilty, not to get a lawyer first. This is like Alice in Wonderland. Or was it Through the Looking Glass? I was about to agree with all those other posters who were saying to get a lawyer! Sentence first, verdict afterward!

No, really. Don''t plead guilty without a lawyer! Don''t do anything without a lawyer! Don''t talk to the police without a lawyer! If you start talking on your own you may wind up with one of those punishments for which no crime has yet been invented! You think you are guilty of a crime! There may be mitigating circumstances. Don''t stop a lawyer from helping you to find them! If you want to make some sort of voluntary restitution later (if it is that sort of crime), no one will stop you!

Deborah

 

[diamondfan]

It is REALLY hard for me to say without knowing what you did, but I respect your wishes not to discuss it...

I assume it was not hugely bad since it was a misdemeanor...again, that can cover a lot of ground. I let a jay walking ticket go unpaid because the cop wrote my address as 219 instead of 719 and I washed the pants with the ticket in the pocket, assumed I would get the notice by mail and planned to deal with it then...but never got it. It was stupid but I got pulled over for speeding and while the cop did not write me up and gave a warning instead, he told me I had a warrant for my arrest!!!! I rushed over to the courthouse and dealt with it ASAP, and blessed the nice cop many times over. It was a stupid thing and I could have gotten arrested over it. So anyway, I digress, but there are things that are misdemeanors that happen to you though you are not trying to do anything illegal or criminal. Then you have it on your record.

I guess I would say to speak to a lawyer and see what he thinks. Not to sound totally odd, but if you really are sorry and learned a lesson and will not do it again and are criminally minded, the negatives of having it on your record are huge. Everyone deserves a second chance. If this is just kind of a pattern for you, then I see it differently as potential employers might deserve to know this tendency in you, especially if it impacts your ability to do your job etc...

Not sure if this made sense or helped at all...hope it all turns out the way it should.

 

[iheartscience]

Definitely talk to a lawyer and try to plea it down, get it dismissed, etc. Everyone makes mistakes and it sounds like you know that it''s unlikely you''ll be a repeat offender. You don''t want your future career prospects limited by this mistake. Good luck!

 

[crown1]

Date: 8/29/2008 7:59:46 PM
Author: crown1
hi! i am sorry you have gotten into this situation. since you admit you are guilty i think you should make a guilty plea and try to get a reduced or suspended sentence. maybe community service? you need to do what you think is right and what you can live with later. especially if people know you are guilty and you plead otherwise.

sometimes people have more respect for someone who finds themselves on the wrong side of the law when they acknowledge their wrong doing and try to make amends and are apologetic. i think if you take responsibility it is a step in the right direction. i wish you good luck.

agbf: crown did not suggest that the op not seek legal counsel. she did state that she felt that if one admits they are guilty she felt a guilty plea may be the way to go. it is highly unusual for someone in this circumstance to not use counsel. i never thought there was a chance that the op was not going to get representation. i do suggest the op use legal representation. i am now on record saying if it were me i would hire a good lawyer to help me make the best deal i could without purguring myself. i can not advise anyone to live a lie.

 

[crown1]

just a quick question for all who think if it is a first offense and only a misdemeanor that one should not accept culpability. what if you or a loved one were somehow affected by this act, would you be upset to hear a not guilty plea if you knew the person to be guilty? a child learns to not touch a hot stove because the consequences of doing so is painful. when crime goes without some type of punishment it does not make such a lasting impression. if you speed and get by painlessly it is easier to put the pedal down than after you have paid the fine. even speeding can have consequences when it goes unchecked. how many here would not be upset with someone speeding in their neighborhood where their children were playing? it works both ways you can be in either situation. the op did not say that he or she was being falsely accused. guilt was admitted.

i did receive a speeding ticket a few years ago. i went into the courthouse plead guilty and paid my fine. the clerk said i should not make that plea as i would get 2 points against my license. i told her i did not wish to lie to save myself 2 points. i have the ticket in my desk drawer. i keep it there to remind myself to watch my speed.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 8/30/2008 3:37:40 AM
Author: crown1
just a quick question for all who think if it is a first offense and only a misdemeanor that one should not accept culpability. what if you or a loved one were somehow affected by this act, would you be upset to hear a not guilty plea if you knew the person to be guilty? a child learns to not touch a hot stove because the consequences of doing so is painful. when crime goes without some type of punishment it does not make such a lasting impression. if you speed and get by painlessly it is easier to put the pedal down than after you have paid the fine. even speeding can have consequences when it goes unchecked. how many here would not be upset with someone speeding in their neighborhood where their children were playing? it works both ways you can be in either situation. the op did not say that he or she was being falsely accused. guilt was admitted.


i did receive a speeding ticket a few years ago. i went into the courthouse plead guilty and paid my fine. the clerk said i should not make that plea as i would get 2 points against my license. i told her i did not wish to lie to save myself 2 points. i have the ticket in my desk drawer. i keep it there to remind myself to watch my speed.

I don''t think trying to keep something that could hurt your career prospects in the future is refusing to accept culpability. It sounds like the OP does accept culpability, but obviously doesn''t want this on her (or his) record for the rest of her life.

Your story about your speeding ticket is a very different situation and doesn''t apply here at all. Those points drop off your license in a few years in most states and your insurance will go back down. Your life is not affected negatively in any way except for slightly higher insurance premiums. That''s just not the case with a misdemeanor.

Let''s say the misdemeanor is a DUI. (I know the OP didn''t say what it was, but I''ll use DUI for the sake of the argument.) I know a few people who got DUI''s when they were younger and a lot less responsible. No one was hurt in their cases. I don''t know all the legal details of their cases, but I do know that none of them have ever driven under the influence again so they definitely learned their lesson in that respect.

Do I think drunk driving is terrible? Yes, I think it''s one of the dumbest things someone can do and it''s extremely dangerous to others. I was shocked when I found out they had done it, even though in their cases it was several years ago. However, I don''t necessarily think that a first time offender should have their record permanently marred by this admittedly major mistake. A second time offender should, in my opinion, and so should a first time offender if someone else was injured due to their stupidity.

And going back to the original question about whether or not to get a lawyer and try to fight this, the bottom line is that our justice system is set up so that a person with a lawyer gets in less trouble than a person without one. Is it fair or right? Maybe not, but that''s just how it is.

If I were charged with a misdemeanor and I knew that with a lawyer I had a chance at getting a lesser sentence or getting the charge dropped, of course I would get a lawyer. I also think if you''ve learned your lesson and it isn''t going to happen again, it doesn''t really matter whether you plead guilty or not guilty.