Advice: My WF ACA diamond vs this Jewerler's GIA

[EncikG]

I agree with what you are saying about different people liking different cuts but your reasoning that clarity can be improved by cutting away imperfections to improve price doesn't really make sense. The carat weight loss alone would offset the clarity gains. Also, when trying to cut for better proportions, you would have a pretty set "shape" and unless the inclusion was exactly on the outside near the edge of a diamond, you'd have a very hard time taking it out.

I can see the reasoning. With my rudimentary knowledge, as much as 50% of the rough is lost. It’s great if you can cut 2 perfect stones out of a rough but sometimes it might be better just cutting one.. and picking a spot within the rough which has the least inclusions perhaps

 

[EncikG]

Which do you prefer?

The BGD Black n signature has a sizeable difference to the first stone I posted. A better comparison would be the first stone vs the CBI.

There are subtle differences. But I wouldn’t call it a race between a VW and a Ferrari. I love them both but leaves the question of whether someone is willing to pay the premium associated with it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Agree. Overhype is another reason people expect the superideal diamond to "jump out of the box". And maybe do a little song and dance for them.

Mine does! it sings to me and dance in the dark!

 

[Forgiven888]

I can see the reasoning. With my rudimentary knowledge, as much as 50% of the rough is lost. It’s great if you can cut 2 perfect stones out of a rough but sometimes it might be better just cutting one.. and picking a spot within the rough which has the least inclusions perhaps

The size and shape difference between a 60/60 diamond and an ideal cut aren't that different, so unless there was a inclusion exactly where the difference is, you aren't likely to get a much clearer diamond.

 

[blueMA]

but I personally prefer stones less than 61.8

Duh, I don't know why but I somehow misread that stone's depth as 62.2. Apologies to anyone who I may have confused.

BTW, I would never depend on IS or ASET images alone to determine a stone's potential.
Those are at best rejection tools.
Nothing beats judging/choosing in person when it comes to diamonds.

 

[blueMA]

I agree with what you are saying about different people liking different cuts but your reasoning that clarity can be improved by cutting away imperfections to improve price doesn't really make sense. The carat weight loss alone would offset the clarity gains. Also, when trying to cut for better proportions, you would have a pretty set "shape" and unless the inclusion was exactly on the outside near the edge of a diamond, you'd have a very hard time taking it out.

This does actually happen. In fact, pavilion twists, lgh variations, and azimuth shifts can happen for that reason.

"It’s worth noting that inclusions normally have more impact on a stone’s beauty and value than blemishes. This is because many blemishes are easy to remove. A fashioned diamond can sometimes be recut or repolished to eliminate blemishes and possibly improve its clarity grade."
https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/blog/seven-things-to-know-about-diamond-clarity/

 

[whitewave]

Duh, I don't know why but I somehow misread that stone's depth as 62.2. Apologies to anyone who I may have confused.

BTW, I would never depend on IS or ASET images alone to determine a stone's potential.
Those are at best rejection tools.
Nothing beats judging/choosing in person when it comes to diamonds.

IS and ASET are inclusion tools. (Along with clarity, Fluor, BMG etc)

HCA is the exclusion tool.

 

[blueMA]

If they cut their own stones, are they (WF, CBI, BGD) the only cutters who cut to super ideal proportions?

lol, absolutely not. I've just purchased a Solesfera cut CZ (10 arrows) that's computer laser cut, and it's practically perfect under the idealscope and it looks like a superideal stone in person. They're literally less than 40 bucks. I've seen 10 bucks CZ with perfect H&A cut, and many are coming out of India and China.
I'm one of few who can tell CZs and other fakes at a quick glance, and I could tell that it's not a diamond, but the cut is extremely precise and actually makes the CZ scintillate and sparkle with impressive fire, which would fool most people.

 

[whitewave]

Mine does! it sings to me and dance in the dark!

I need to do this with my stones!!

 

[whitewave]

lol, absolutely not. I've just purchased a Solesfera cut CZ (10 arrows) that's computer laser cut, and it's practically perfect under the idealscope and it looks like a superideal stone in person. They're literally less than 40 bucks. I've seen 10 bucks CZ with perfect H&A cut, and many are coming out of India and China.
I'm one of few who can tell CZs and other fakes at a quick glance, and I could tell that it's not a diamond, but the cut is extremely precise and actually makes the CZ scintillate and sparkle with impressive fire, which would fool most people.

So irrelevant to this discussion. Sims aren’t allowed to be discussed on this board.

On one month it will be cloudy as hell anyway...

 

[blueMA]

IS and ASET are inclusion tools.

HCA is the exclusion tool.

They're not. They certainly wouldn't guarantee performance.

"Cutwise is selection tool , instead rejections tools like HCA, ASET, IS,.."
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...etry-to-hca-scores.246504/page-2#post-4489615

 

[whitewave]

They're not. They certainly wouldn't guarantee performance.

"Cutwise is selection tool , instead rejections tools like HCA, ASET, IS,.."
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...etry-to-hca-scores.246504/page-2#post-4489615

We will agree to disagree. Obviously eyes are the ultimate test, but I stand by ASET and IS as inclusion tools.

 

[blueMA]

So irrelevant to this discussion. Sims aren’t allowed to be discussed on this board.

On one month it will be cloudy as hell anyway...

It's very relevant - the question was whether a few vendors were the only ones who could cut precise super ideals and the answer is absolutely not. And no, today's CZs are not the same as the ones in the past that cloud quickly.

 

[blueMA]

We will agree to disagree. Obviously eyes are the ultimate test, but I stand by ASET and IS as inclusion tools.

Sure, but I recommend that you watch the video on the earlier post. The 1st and 2nd ASET look practically the same, but the stones perform vastly different.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...nd-vs-this-jewerlers-gia.246823/#post-4496261

 

[whitewave]

Sure, but I recommend that you watch the video on the earlier post. The 1st and 2nd ASET look practically the same, but the stones perform vastly different.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...nd-vs-this-jewerlers-gia.246823/#post-4496261

Inclusion means a good buy, not a 100% guaranteed delight to your specific eyes.

It’s a good buy; whether you like it will be a different story as obviously there are no tests or rubrics that are calibrated to your specific eyes. If only...

I could draft Alvin Kamara to my fantasy football team, because he is a good inclusion, but that doesn’t mean he will perform to my expectations.

We don’t live in a fantasy world. With online buying you do the best you can and possibly might return.

I went to a B&M last week to look at eternity rings and all they could tell me was great clarity and white stones. This is an over 100 year old business. The products were expensive and doing ok in those bright store spotlights. I obviously did not purchase.

With SI, I just call up HPD, BGD or WF and tell them to send me a stone based on what I want. This is where I am in life.

I don’t want to obsess and argue over bs. I want what I want when I want it.


This thread has become unnecessarily tedious.

 

[msop04]

As others have stated, I think the issue may be that the OP simply prefers 60/60 cuts over super ideal specs. Is that so wrong?? LOL

It seems that many are so quick to want to get into a diamond pissing contest where super ideals are always supposed to be the heavy weight champions of the world, never to be defeated -- and others are not even in the same league. What we're forgetting here is that everyone won't always have the same opinion on what makes a diamond beautiful to his/her eye... Why not let the OP have a chance to compare her ACA with some of the stones at the local B&M before telling her that none will compare to the super ideals?? Just a thought.

 

[whitewave]

As others have stated, I think the issue may be that the OP simply prefers 60/60 cuts over super ideal specs. Is that so wrong?? LOL

It seems that many are so quick to want to get into a diamond pissing contest where super ideals are always supposed to be the heavy weight champions of the world, never to be defeated -- and others are not even in the same league. What we're forgetting here is that everyone won't always have the same opinion on what makes a diamond beautiful to his/her eye... Why not let the OP have a chance to compare her ACA with some of the stones at the local B&M before telling her that none will compare to the super ideals?? Just a thought.

I completely agree and said the same thing on page 1 or 2.

 

[blueMA]

Inclusion means a good buy, not a 100% guaranteed delight to your specific eyes.

It’s a good buy; whether you like it will be a different story as obviously there are no tests or rubrics that are calibrated to your specific eyes. If only...

I could draft Alvin Kamara to my fantasy football team, because he is a good inclusion, but that doesn’t mean he will perform to my expectations.

We don’t live in a fantasy world. With online buying you do the best you can and possibly might return.

I went to a B&M last week to look at eternity rings and all they could tell me was great clarity and white stones. This is an over 100 year old business. The products were expensive and doing ok in those bright store spotlights.

With SI, I just call up HPD, BGD or WF and tell them to send me a stone based on what I want. This is where I am in life.

I don’t want to obsess and argue over bs. I want what I want when I want it.

Most B&M store personnel are unfortunately horribly uneducated of diamonds. I'm sure you or most other PSers here would run circles around them. B&M stones also don't come at good price, and can be more expensive than online superideals.

No one denies online superideals are easy buys. I've recommended many novice to press the easy button.

However, for some motivated people willing to research and put some effort into the considerable once in a lifetime purchase that could easily save 20K or more, it's worth the bother to pursue additional options.

 

[msop04]

I completely agree and said the same thing on page 1 or 2.

I know ya did, @whitewave... LOL This thing has just gotten so crazy, I thought I'd reiterate, because... geez!!

 

[whitewave]

I know ya did, @whitewave... LOL This thing has just gotten so crazy, I thought I'd reiterate, because... geez!!

Lol. This thread wandered into the land of tedious argumentative book quotes lol.

Just take the darn ACA to the jeweler with their permission and compare and see what OP likes. That’s all that has to be done here, and we and many others said the same thing, but then this thread went off into tangent land and it is so completely unnecessary!

OP, come back!! Where are you with this now?

 

[blueMA]

I know ya did, @whitewave... LOL This thing has just gotten so crazy, I thought I'd reiterate, because... geez!!

Well people are curious and when it comes to diamonds there are loyal fanatics who'll defend their brands to death.
We're doing what we can to help clarity and provide as much information as possible to dissuade hypes and provide real facts.

 

[soxfan]

lol, absolutely not. I've just purchased a Solesfera cut CZ (10 arrows) that's computer laser cut, and it's practically perfect under the idealscope and it looks like a superideal stone in person. They're literally less than 40 bucks. I've seen 10 bucks CZ with perfect H&A cut, and many are coming out of India and China.
I'm one of few who can tell CZs and other fakes at a quick glance, and I could tell that it's not a diamond, but the cut is extremely precise and actually makes the CZ scintillate and sparkle with impressive fire, which would fool most people.

OMG I want one! I need earrings and still won't pull the trigger on real diamonds yet. Where did you buy???

 

[msop04]

Well people are curious and when it comes to diamonds there are loyal fanatics who'll defend their brands to death.
We're doing what we can to help clarity and provide as much information as possible to dissuade hypes and provide real facts.

I mean, I wouldn't call anyone a fanatic here... they obviously adore their super ideals, and that's good! Maybe they have trouble understanding how anyone else couldn't see the difference and think the super ideals are far superior, worth the additional cost, etc... and that's totally okay too. What I hate to see is the ridiculous comparisons of Pinto vs. Porsche or what have you...

Although I don't have a true 60/60 stone, mine is far from a super ideal, but it looks awesome, and I love it -- and I can assure you I'm not into sporting a Pinto on the road, much less on my finger. LOL I just think we need to remember @kenny's wise words, "people vary."

 

[whitewave]

We also have to be careful of providing too much tediousness and scaring off OP.

I didn’t see fanatics on this thread, unless you wanted to call the fanatics the ones who wanted to go out of their way to bash super ideals, many with incorrect information and speculation. I think everyone would agree incorrect information and speculation are not real facts. Lol

But, yes, where do we buy the $40 super ideal precision cut ten arrow CZ stones that never turn cloudy and look like diamonds except to trained eyes lol?

 

[blueMA]

We also have to be careful of providing too much tediousness and scaring off OP.

I didn’t see fanatics on this thread, unless you wanted to call the fanatics the ones who wanted to go out of their way to bash super ideals, many with incorrect information.

But, yes, where do we buy the $40 super ideal precision cut ten arrow CZ stones that never turn cloudy and look like diamonds except to trained eyes lol?

Wrong information from both sides, actually.
I thought CZs weren't allowed to be discussed? lol

For the curious ones who want to check it out, search "venetia hearts arrows" on Amazon. Best CZs to date I've checked out, much better than Swarovski's Pure Brilliance.
I tried to contact the vendor because the product photo (shows 8 arrows, instead of 10) and the descriptions are misleading but you can always depend on Amazon's free return policy.

 

[sstephensid]

We also have to be careful of providing too much tediousness and scaring off OP.

I didn’t see fanatics on this thread, unless you wanted to call the fanatics the ones who wanted to go out of their way to bash super ideals, many with incorrect information and speculation. I think everyone would agree incorrect information and speculation are not real facts. Lol

But, yes, where do we buy the $40 super ideal precision cut ten arrow CZ stones that never turn cloudy and look like diamonds except to trained eyes lol?

You are kind of being a jerk in this post...

I did see fanatics claiming that only blind people couldn’t see the difference and comparing VW to Ferrari’s... I guess WF, HPD, and BGD have the monopoly on “Ferrari” grade diamonds. No one else in the diamond industry can sell “super” ideal diamonds. (Which can be defined differently from vendor to vendor).

 

[blueMA]

OMG I want one! I need earrings and still won't pull the trigger on real diamonds yet. Where did you buy???

And @soxfan - I ordered a loose stone out of curiosity. I've been doing this for the last few decades to see the cut progress but never wear them in public because I can tell CZs too easily and assume there are few out there like myself.

Would love to hear what you think so mention me later after you try it out!

 

[whitewave]

You are kind of being a jerk in this post...

I did see fanatics claiming that only blind people couldn’t see the difference and comparing VW to Ferrari’s... I guess WF, HPD, and BGD have the monopoly on “Ferrari” grade diamonds. No one else in the diamond industry can sell “super” ideal diamonds. (Which can be defined differently from vendor to vendor).

Some super ideal vendors actually have cutting locations removed from buys highways because that would affect the precision. Etc.

They are cut to tight specifics that go to the middle of AGS 000. Tight parameters. Perfect hearts and arrows. There are no crooked hearts or off center clefts etc. thin to medium girdle. IIRC less than 62 depth. They have AGS light performance grading.

They don’t just happen. Sure, you can find some close to it that are not designated super ideals, but have fun spending all of your free time looking for them.

Again, people vary. I have several non super ideal diamonds and I have 2 super ideal diamonds. Thank goodness for choice. The 2 super ideals were the last two I bought. I can tell a difference, and I prefer super ideals.

Does that mean the other diamonds are “less than”? No. It means I like one thing and you like a different thing.

Do I think the complete experience of buying a super ideal diamond is worth the premium? Yes I do. Do you? Maybe or maybe not. It doesn’t affect me what you like or don’t like.

Do I think super ideals are perfect? Yes! Do I think they are like a Porsche 911 turbo? Yes, yes I do.

Is a 911 turbo worth more money than a Porsche 911? Maybe, maybe not. Is a Porsche 911 non turbo a good nice car you can brag about? Yes indeed.

Is a Toyota Camry a nice, reliable, good car you can love and brag about? Of course! Is it a Porsche 911 turbo? No. No it’s not.

Do you have to like or agree with my post? No, no you don’t.

Should OP take her ACA with permission to a local jeweler to see what her eyes prefer? Yes, she should.

Should she buy what she likes? Yes, indeed, she should buy the diamond that makes her heart sing.

THE END. Hope you enjoyed the show.



EDITED: oops! The last diamond I bought is a M colored emerald cut from B2C jewels. My last two MRB were from HPD/CBI

 

[blueMA]

 

[blueMA]

@blueMA I guess you killed OP’s thread. Hope you are proud of yourself.

Sorry you feel that way, and thanks for your contribution.