Advice for evaluating Asschers in person
- Thread starter jplouis
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Hi, these are all snippets from Strmrdr''s many posts:
You have the square pattern.
The windmill pattern.
The crown arrow pattern.
The crown facet pattern.
The outline pattern.
I look for a table in the high 50s very low 60s.
Depth between 65% and 75%
crown 10%-15% <--- very important to add fire.
LW ratio as close to 1 as possible.
Then it comes down to all eyeballs.
stong and even windmills?
Are the squares well defined and concentric?
Does it have the 10 mile deep look under indirect lighting?
There are really multiple groups of cutting styles in asschers that have there own rules.
In general the best no matter which style will have a crown height of at least 10%.
the best of the modern interpretations will have roughly 10%-12% crown height, med range girdle, table under 61 and and a depth of %60-%65.
The cutting on these has to be spot on or they bark.
The classic style with have crown heights 10% to 15%+ ,tables under 61% with mid to high 50s being better, and total depth of 68%-75%
There is a little greater variation tolerance in these and they can still look awesome.
Then there is the large table cut that I don''t like.
Tables larger than 65% , depths from 60%-80% barkers one and all as far as im concerned.
..........
Sorry I don''t have the exact posts. While I was researching I cut and paste what I found, and brought the sheet with me when I went to bms. If you look in faqs you''ll find a lot of posts, or if you search "asscher" as well.
Good Luck with your search!
You have the square pattern.
The windmill pattern.
The crown arrow pattern.
The crown facet pattern.
The outline pattern.
I look for a table in the high 50s very low 60s.
Depth between 65% and 75%
crown 10%-15% <--- very important to add fire.
LW ratio as close to 1 as possible.
Then it comes down to all eyeballs.
stong and even windmills?
Are the squares well defined and concentric?
Does it have the 10 mile deep look under indirect lighting?
There are really multiple groups of cutting styles in asschers that have there own rules.
In general the best no matter which style will have a crown height of at least 10%.
the best of the modern interpretations will have roughly 10%-12% crown height, med range girdle, table under 61 and and a depth of %60-%65.
The cutting on these has to be spot on or they bark.
The classic style with have crown heights 10% to 15%+ ,tables under 61% with mid to high 50s being better, and total depth of 68%-75%
There is a little greater variation tolerance in these and they can still look awesome.
Then there is the large table cut that I don''t like.
Tables larger than 65% , depths from 60%-80% barkers one and all as far as im concerned.
..........
Sorry I don''t have the exact posts. While I was researching I cut and paste what I found, and brought the sheet with me when I went to bms. If you look in faqs you''ll find a lot of posts, or if you search "asscher" as well.
Good Luck with your search!
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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RA specs will generally fall within the above specs, but they are a patented cut and you are paying for that. These are not generic asscher. And that extrapolation of Storms posts is a little more restrictive than it needs to be. For example, the crown high can be higher than 15%. Over 15% is not a problem. At all.
With RA's... you can generally throw this stuff out the window-- again, it's a patented cut... there is variation but it's not as big a range as if you are talking about generic asscher-- which is what the below refers to:
" the best of the modern interpretations will have roughly 10%-12% crown height, med range girdle, table under 61 and and a depth of %60-%65.
The cutting on these has to be spot on or they bark.
The classic style with have crown heights 10% to 15%+ ,tables under 61% with mid to high 50s being better, and total depth of 68%-75%
There is a little greater variation tolerance in these and they can still look awesome.
Then there is the large table cut that I don't like.
Tables larger than 65% , depths from 60%-80% barkers one and all as far as im concerned."
With RA's... you can generally throw this stuff out the window-- again, it's a patented cut... there is variation but it's not as big a range as if you are talking about generic asscher-- which is what the below refers to:
" the best of the modern interpretations will have roughly 10%-12% crown height, med range girdle, table under 61 and and a depth of %60-%65.
The cutting on these has to be spot on or they bark.
The classic style with have crown heights 10% to 15%+ ,tables under 61% with mid to high 50s being better, and total depth of 68%-75%
There is a little greater variation tolerance in these and they can still look awesome.
Then there is the large table cut that I don't like.
Tables larger than 65% , depths from 60%-80% barkers one and all as far as im concerned."
Thank for the replies; I''m just getting a little nervous. High crowns and small tables are one of the reasons I''ve really liked the pictures I''ve seen of the Royal Asschers. One I saw in a picture had a 54% table and 16% crown and it looked very nice.
lovewhitediamonds
Brilliant_Rock
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From my experience of shopping for asschers --- sometimes you just have to forget about the numbers and look with your eyes.. your diamond will call out to you "Pick me!"
I had all of Strms posts on one "cheat sheet" --- it helped keep me in the range for table, depth, etc...
I also think VG or above for symmetry is key too
The best advice I received was to take the stones outside to view -- what a difference! Asschers are at their best in the shade... that''s where the pattern really comes alive. Get the stones in natural sunlight and view in shade too...
Good luck!
I had all of Strms posts on one "cheat sheet" --- it helped keep me in the range for table, depth, etc...
I also think VG or above for symmetry is key too
The best advice I received was to take the stones outside to view -- what a difference! Asschers are at their best in the shade... that''s where the pattern really comes alive. Get the stones in natural sunlight and view in shade too...
Good luck!
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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That's perfect. Seriously. Like I said (and no offense to clop) Clop's post about stats is a misleading extrapolation. 54 table and 16 crown and A Royal Asscher cut are FABULOUS. Talk about fire!
While Storm may be an asscher expert... anything out of context or misinterpreted has to be taken with a grain of salt... and clop has you worried for no reason. First of all Storm would be the first to tell you, that you have to look at anyu fancy with your eyes. Second, his posts are about GENERIC asschers. ROYAL Asschers are a different breed. They are cut for fire and brightness NOT spread. Please, take it from someone who while not Storm himself, has read many of his asscher posts over the years, has an asscher herself, and has see Royal Asschers and ogled them in person.
Clop... please, be careful and responsible about what you extrapolate and put together. It's like a puzzle that's been put together close to right... but still not right-- and cane scare someone off of something for no reason.
Clop didn''t make me nervous, I''m just nervous because this is all going to be a surprise and I want to make sure I get something nice. The stones I''m looking at are all a little over 1 carat and I''ve read some don''t like the Royals in small sizes so I hope I like them. I decided I needed to have multiple stones for me to see in person because I can''t just pick something off a website.
The idea of a Royal appeals to me because of the standardized cut, I originally started looking at emerald cuts at a B&M and the cuts were so varied and to me everything shiny is nice but that didn''t mean they were nice. I''m hoping the Royals will all be nice and that it will be harder for me to screw up. Also Lita Asscher was very nice on the phone and her agreeing to send 3 1ct+ stones locally was fantastic.
The idea of a Royal appeals to me because of the standardized cut, I originally started looking at emerald cuts at a B&M and the cuts were so varied and to me everything shiny is nice but that didn''t mean they were nice. I''m hoping the Royals will all be nice and that it will be harder for me to screw up. Also Lita Asscher was very nice on the phone and her agreeing to send 3 1ct+ stones locally was fantastic.
strmrdr
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Gypsy is correct those numbers are a little outdated.
There are kicken asschers in that range of course but some outside too.
The biggest change as noted is crown height, anything over 10% is fine.
Tables under 65 but you can go over if the diamond in person speaks to you.
They are just general guidelines for calling in stones.
pictures and in person eval. rules and numbers drool with step cuts.
in person eval is about patterns and fire:
Note patterns dont have to look like these to be kicken this is
just one example to help you look.
the square pattern. - patterns that form squares(with cut corners, they are under the table)
The windmill pattern. A
The crown arrow pattern. B
The crown facet pattern. C
The outline pattern. - do you like the outline?
center light return to anchor the patterns. - Does the center return light?
Are they all present and pleasing to you?
Then:
check crown height and fire.
The right asscher for you will scream pick me.
This is just one of many different patterns asschers display but they all have common elements.
There are kicken asschers in that range of course but some outside too.
The biggest change as noted is crown height, anything over 10% is fine.
Tables under 65 but you can go over if the diamond in person speaks to you.
They are just general guidelines for calling in stones.
pictures and in person eval. rules and numbers drool with step cuts.
in person eval is about patterns and fire:
Note patterns dont have to look like these to be kicken this is
just one example to help you look.
the square pattern. - patterns that form squares(with cut corners, they are under the table)
The windmill pattern. A
The crown arrow pattern. B
The crown facet pattern. C
The outline pattern. - do you like the outline?
center light return to anchor the patterns. - Does the center return light?
Are they all present and pleasing to you?
Then:
check crown height and fire.
The right asscher for you will scream pick me.
This is just one of many different patterns asschers display but they all have common elements.
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ahh... well, has she expressed an interest in step cuts? And asschers specifically? Does she know that if you are going for size, spread... asscher AND Royal Asscher are DEFINITELY not the way to go? That a 1 carat RA is typically around 5.5 square? While an ideal round is 6.5 mm? If the answer to all of the above is YES! Then I don''t think you have anything to worry about.
Just make sure you view the stones in various lighting environments and pick with your eyes and heart. RAs are just beautiful and just so arresting and, IMO, special.
Just make sure you view the stones in various lighting environments and pick with your eyes and heart. RAs are just beautiful and just so arresting and, IMO, special.
I know that rounds aren''t her favorite. Other than that I know she likes squares, she has mentioned pears. Most of her jewelry is more modern without being ultra-modern. For example she likes the Frank Ghery Tiffany line, especially the fishes of which I got her a necklace.
lovewhitediamonds
Brilliant_Rock
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just my 2c... and just a personal opinion from my experience... for what it''s worth....
I was dead set on getting a Royal... I even got on a plane and flew 2 hours to view stones that were brought in for me.
I was looking at Royals 3+ carats.....I was so excited, but never saw one "in person". In my particular case, once I saw the Royal, it wasn''t for me after all, and I fell for the "generic 5 step cut cornered square". Even when I had them side by side, I prefered the generic (and I never thought in a million years I would have).
Good luck -- and if there is any way to view other "generics" with the royals it might be a good comparison just to see... it really boils down to personal preference...
I was dead set on getting a Royal... I even got on a plane and flew 2 hours to view stones that were brought in for me.
I was looking at Royals 3+ carats.....I was so excited, but never saw one "in person". In my particular case, once I saw the Royal, it wasn''t for me after all, and I fell for the "generic 5 step cut cornered square". Even when I had them side by side, I prefered the generic (and I never thought in a million years I would have).
Good luck -- and if there is any way to view other "generics" with the royals it might be a good comparison just to see... it really boils down to personal preference...
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Frank G line from Tiffany. Classic with a twist, minimalist. Very lovely pieces.
Okay. Where do you live? LA, NY... Chicago? What Metro Area (give me a vague idea of average E-rings)
Is she a size girl?
If she is a size girl, as much of a PITA as it WILL be, I would go for an Emerald Cut instead of an RA for spread. Or for the Pear she mentioned (great spread, pears). The fishes in the necklace are pear shaped... she might like the slihouette. Have you seen Pheonix's new Pear? It's amazing.
Size girls are not happy with asschers as engagement rights (RHR etc, yes) generally... we've had a lot of trade ins.
And her tastes, from the Frank G line, don't seem to run to halos that can trick the eye and make a stone look larger.
Okay. Where do you live? LA, NY... Chicago? What Metro Area (give me a vague idea of average E-rings)
Is she a size girl?
If she is a size girl, as much of a PITA as it WILL be, I would go for an Emerald Cut instead of an RA for spread. Or for the Pear she mentioned (great spread, pears). The fishes in the necklace are pear shaped... she might like the slihouette. Have you seen Pheonix's new Pear? It's amazing.
Size girls are not happy with asschers as engagement rights (RHR etc, yes) generally... we've had a lot of trade ins.
And her tastes, from the Frank G line, don't seem to run to halos that can trick the eye and make a stone look larger.
Austin, TX. Very laid back area and so is she. I don''t think size will be an issue, design will be. The setting I''ve decided on is a 3mm canturi cubism setting with prongs (they have bezel but don''t think I like that). http://canturi.com/cubism.html
I like the pears but think they would be too delicate (thin point). The other cuts I''ve considered are the Princess of hearts and the x-factor princess, though small flashes in a princess aren''t my favorite. As you can tell I''m avoiding pointed stones.
I like the pears but think they would be too delicate (thin point). The other cuts I''ve considered are the Princess of hearts and the x-factor princess, though small flashes in a princess aren''t my favorite. As you can tell I''m avoiding pointed stones.
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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Well, a V tip would protect the pear tip. And personally, I would re-consider the Bezel for a couple of reasons: A) it will define those gorgeous corners a lot better than prongs, which might cover them up B) Less "is that a princess" comments, and C) enhances the size of the asscher.
Gypsy
Super_Ideal_Rock
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You can post the prong set one for comparison in another thread (with this one) and do a poll. Make sure to tell everyone that it''s a 3mm band, and a 5.5 RA asscher.
One thing you can do with that bezel, which I would ask for... is a thinner bezel, as they custom make each bezel, it shouldn''t be an issue.
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I''m thinking that stone would be a little small for a 3mm diamond band, too. But I don''t love that halo.
Anyone considering an asscher really should consider one of the Daniel K rings at Pearlman''s. They have an unbelievable discount on them.
http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-specials/closeout-jewelry/rings/03R1/8/
Anyone considering an asscher really should consider one of the Daniel K rings at Pearlman''s. They have an unbelievable discount on them.
http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-specials/closeout-jewelry/rings/03R1/8/
Apologies jplouis or anyone else who I may have made nervous or given misinformation to, not my intention at all. I was just sharing what information I''d collected after reading through apparently outdated threads.
I was not trying to take anything out of context, or misinterpret anything. Going forward I will be more careful and responsible; I wouldn''t want to scare anyone else off in future posts.
Have you seen the Gothic with an Asscher center? it is stunning as well 
arjunajane
Ideal_Rock
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Jplouis, I love that setting you posted, and I also think Gypsy is on the money - keep the bezel but make it a lil thinner. Its gonna be a real stunning ring!
good luck with the RA''s, I would love to be able to view some in person
good luck with the RA''s, I would love to be able to view some in person
NewEnglandLady
Ideal_Rock
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I just wanted to pop in and agree with everything Gypsy said. The setting you chose is beautiful and I think it would look fantastic with an asscher--I really think a bezel would make the assher pop whereas prongs might make it blend in a little. I have prongs and feel it takes away from the shape of my stone, but my windmills are small to begin with...RA''s usually have lovely, large windmills that I love.
I personally love RA''s--the small table with high crown height is a combo I can''t get enough of. Are you looking at generic asschers as well as RAs? I''ve heard that some people prefer the bolder pattern on a generic since the pattern on a RA is a bit thinner--the pattern can be harder to define on smaller stones. I really feel that once you lay your eyes on some, you''ll quickly get a feel for what you love! Good luck!! Please post pics when this is all done, I''ve been wanting to see an asscher in that setting for a long time!!
I personally love RA''s--the small table with high crown height is a combo I can''t get enough of. Are you looking at generic asschers as well as RAs? I''ve heard that some people prefer the bolder pattern on a generic since the pattern on a RA is a bit thinner--the pattern can be harder to define on smaller stones. I really feel that once you lay your eyes on some, you''ll quickly get a feel for what you love! Good luck!! Please post pics when this is all done, I''ve been wanting to see an asscher in that setting for a long time!!
I''m a sucker for shiny things. I think I''m going to get one of the Royal Asschers I just went to look at.
Measurements: 5.78 x 5.77 x 3.80 mm
Carat Weight: 1.11
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: IF
Proportions:
Depth: 65.9 %
Table: 57 %
Girdle: Thick to Very Thick
Culet: Small
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 5.78 x 5.77 x 3.80 mm
Carat Weight: 1.11
Color Grade: H
Clarity Grade: IF
Proportions:
Depth: 65.9 %
Table: 57 %
Girdle: Thick to Very Thick
Culet: Small
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: None
IloveAsschers13
Brilliant_Rock
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IF? J E A L O U S. Clarity is the one thing that gets me on these diamonds... not the color or anything (which you don''t have to worry about
) Congrats!!! Lucky
I think I''m going to pass on the H IF Royal Asscher. After finishing drooling over it I had some time to contemplate the price and while I know an RA has a price premium I wasn''t prepared to pay a premium for the luxury of shopping at this particular store. They dropped their initial price 17% and it still seemed high. Search will continue...
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