ACA stone rejects

[calcaver]

Date: 2/1/2007 2:04:45 PM
Author: hikerchick

Date: 2/1/2007 2:00:11 PM
Author: KtIceRN
Aljdewey,


My ES stone has a DQD that is dated 12/13/2006. It''s not an old stone or a old style DQD as mine does grade my stone a 000 (light performance, proportion factors and finish)

KT,

We were posting at the same time. I wonder if our diamonds are siblings . . . both strong blue, both graded on 12/13/06 . . . both ES from WF. Wouldn''t that be cool????

Hickerchick and KtIcerRN,

Your stong blue floro stones have another sibling. My report is also on December 13, 2006. Except, mine must be the runt of the litter, as mine is 0.904 I SI1. I noticed yours are both H VS1. I wonder if all three were cut from the same rough? Any other siblings?

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183730.htm#


Paul

 

[KtIceRN]

Alj, I know that you said they were just 2 possibilities

, I believe you may be correct. I was just pointing out that mine is neither of those and #3 possibility may be the strong blue.

Paul, mine is a J color so it must be the color runt of the litter. So we have a H, I and J anyone else??? I am also wondering if they all came out of the same rough... very interesting!!

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 2/1/2007 5:21:21 PM
Author: calcaver

Date: 2/1/2007 2:04:45 PM
Author: hikerchick

Date: 2/1/2007 2:00:11 PM
Author: KtIceRN
Aljdewey,


My ES stone has a DQD that is dated 12/13/2006. It''s not an old stone or a old style DQD as mine does grade my stone a 000 (light performance, proportion factors and finish)

KT,

We were posting at the same time. I wonder if our diamonds are siblings . . . both strong blue, both graded on 12/13/06 . . . both ES from WF. Wouldn''t that be cool????

Hickerchick and KtIcerRN,

Your stong blue floro stones have another sibling. My report is also on December 13, 2006. Except, mine must be the runt of the litter, as mine is 0.904 I SI1. I noticed yours are both H VS1. I wonder if all three were cut from the same rough? Any other siblings?

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183730.htm#


Paul

That is cool, Paul . . . welcome to the family

Just the younger sibling not the runt . . .
I wonder if WF would be able to tell us if all of these came from the same rough?

 

[calcaver]

Date: 2/1/2007 5:33:59 PM
Author: KtIceRN
Alj, I know that you said they were just 2 possibilities

, I believe you may be correct. I was just pointing out that mine is neither of those and #3 possibility may be the strong blue.

Paul, mine is a J color so it must be the color runt of the litter. So we have a H, I and J anyone else??? I am also wondering if they all came out of the same rough... very interesting!!

Ok, there are FOUR strong blues graded on the same day.

MrSalvo posted 1.148 ct H VS2 that is pending sale:
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183735.htm#

which I confused for KtIcerRN's 1.761 ct J VS2 stone
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-upgrade-from-whiteflash.56325/

Hikerchick's 1.24 ct H VS2
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183740.htm

and my 0.904 ct I SI1
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183730.htm


It would be very interesting to find out if they came from the same rough!

Paul

 

[RockyGuy]

Just curious, can same rough give different color H, I, J?

 

[ezwinner701]

I guess my question is.

What difference then is a ACA vs a

AGS 000 with light pro at 0
no floro and no funny girdles.



Is there any difference? because I don''t see any such "rejects" at the ES round selection.

 

[KtIceRN]

EZ, i hope I can explain this right. ACA are a brand name that Brian the cutter calls his super ideal hearts and arrows cuts. They are all AGS000 as that is his standard. They are cut and show the patterning that he believes to be superideal.

A regular AGS000 is just that. They are, I am sure, beautiful stones. They might not meet the strict standard that Brian sets for his hearts and arrows but they are stunning never the less.

Sometimes an AGS000 gets into the ES for a specific reason that Brian doesn''t feel it meets his STRICT standards. Could be one heart is just not quite right, or the flour ect.... If that is the case hey you got lucky cause you didn''t have to pay the preimum. I don''t think very many people, if any (in the real world) would be able to tell the difference between an ACA or a AGS000 ES.

If you do a search for AGS000 and look at other stones that are not ACA or ES I am sure you will find some great ones.

 

[ezwinner701]

KtIceRN, thank you for your reply. I still have not been able find any AGS 000 with no floro in the ES section yet, someone please correct me if i''m wrong.

 

[KtIceRN]

EZ, you may be right that there are not any right now, but that doesn''t mean there haven''t / won''t be any.

If you are looking to purchase a stone you can get an AGS000 that is not in the ES with all your criteria through Whiteflash. Just do a PS search above. If this is only for information just keep looking. I believe that WF would send a stone that they didn''t think would make an ACA for a DQR not a DQD.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/1/2007 8:18:52 PM
Author: ezwinner701
KtIceRN, thank you for your reply. I still have not been able find any AGS 000 with no floro in the ES section yet, someone please correct me if i''m wrong.

there may not be one there right now. It doesn''t mean that there never has been one or one could show up anytime but I''d suspect it would be a needle in a haystack to find one.

 

[ezwinner701]

so in conclusion I doubt there''s ever been any of them like that, so my last question is why pay for the extra premium for the ACA when you can just get the AGS 000 from somewhere else.

 

[KtIceRN]

EZ, YOU don''t have to pay the premium for ACA.

It is a choice that people make. It''s like buying a honda vs an acura, same maker alot of the same parts, just one is a bit more tweaked. That is how it is when you buy a brand name anything. An AGS000 that is not an ACA may not be true hearts and arrows according to Brian the cutter. ACA is HIS brand. He has them cut his way. Not every AGS000 is created equal nor will they be ACA!!!!!!!!

 

[hikerchick]

If you want an AGS000 and not get one from the ACA line, try one of the other vendors here. But in my little experience you can get a ACA diamond for about the same cost as an AGS000, you just have to look. I might be wrong about that because I haven''t paid much attention to the differences in pricing, but worth a look I think.

 

[ezwinner701]

KtIceRN, fair enough. I respect your opinion.

If you don''t mind me asking this. What % would YOU personaly say an ACA diamond is better an a regular AGS 000 one? and sure enough the AGS 000 SHOULD be better than any of the ES selections ones, right?

 

[gailrmv]

ETA: I made the point that had already been made about the cum laude level depending on your school.

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/1/2007 8:48:50 PM
Author: ezwinner701
KtIceRN, fair enough. I respect your opinion.


If you don''t mind me asking this. What % would YOU personaly say an ACA diamond is better an a regular AGS 000 one? and sure enough the AGS 000 SHOULD be better than any of the ES selections ones, right?

I know you are asking KtIceRN but I think it''s like anything people place value on with branding. their is a certain quality and peformace excepted of and ACA just like their would be if you bought a designer setting. I personally bought a non-branded AGS000, the ACA brand name was not important to me nor having perfect hearts and arrows. Many, many folks are very happy with their expert selection stones that just missed the ACA branding for whatever reason b/c they are still beautiful stones but a great buy for your $$. It''s all about personal priority''s and mental desires, like wanting a VS1 or something when most wouldn''t be able to see inclusions in a VS2 or many SI stones for that matter.

 

[KtIceRN]

EZ, that is very tough to say. I don''t know if i could put a % on the number that would be better. Like I said it is a matter of personal perference. It''s like buying from Tiffanys. Some people want to have a brand name.

If there was an ACA stone and a regular AGS000 that were both very similar and both in the same peice range I would buy the ACA, just for my own piece of mind. I like the thought of having somthing that Brian, a long time cutter, felt was superideal. But if there was no ACA and a virtual AGS000 that I liked, I would have WF call it in for me. If they thought it was great I would not hesitate to buy it.

I hope that helps.

 

[ezwinner701]

ofcourse if the prices were the SAME, then I would take the ACA in a heartbeat, but they are priced quite a bit higher compared to the similar stones thats why I asked of your own personal % difference.

 

[KtIceRN]

Like I had said it is a personal thing. All I can suggest that if you don''t want to pay the premium, which it seems you don''t, find a 000 and have the vendor call it in. You can have WF do this and ask Brian if he will look at the stone and give you his opinion.

This is probably your best option.

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 2/1/2007 9:08:43 PM
Author: ezwinner701
ofcourse if the prices were the SAME, then I would take the ACA in a heartbeat, but they are priced quite a bit higher compared to the similar stones thats why I asked of your own personal % difference.

I know you are asking KT . . . but if you don't mind another opinion. If I were comparing a AGS000 H&A at a lower price to an ACA . . . I would pay the lower price and take the price savings, but that is just me . . . I am not into branding and money is tight for us so the value/price is more important. But this is very much a personal choice.

One of my labmates bought his wife's ering from Tiffanys, he spent way more than my BF for a diamond 1/3 the size b ut it is what his wife wanted and he wanted it for her. It is all about what is important to you and your GF . . . the price, the brand name, the size . . . etc, etc.

Just my $0.02

 

[KtIceRN]

Thanks for the help and opinions MrsS and hikerchick!! It's nice to know you agree that it's personal perference.
I'm only a cut rock and can't be left alone to answer questions yet!!

 

[hikerchick]

Date: 2/1/2007 9:20:14 PM
Author: KtIceRN
Thanks for the help and opinions MrsS and hikerchick!! It''s nice to know you agree that it''s personal perference.
I''m only a cut rock and can''t be left alone to answer questions yet!!

I am a cut rock too KT, we are ideals in training . . .

 

[shiatsu]

Date: 2/1/2007 8:08:35 AM
Author: mrssalvo
Here's one:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183735.htm#

ETA: found it in the Expert selection, the place where the ACA rejects go but the deals can be found...

Date: 2/1/2007 10:52:47 AM
Author: hikerchick
My diamond that we just bought last month fits this bill . . . but it's already bought so I don't know how much that helps you.
http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183740.htm

Date: 2/1/2007 5:21:21 PM
Author: calcaver
Hickerchick and KtIcerRN,

Your stong blue floro stones have another sibling. My report is also on December 13, 2006. Except, mine must be the runt of the litter, as mine is 0.904 I SI1. I noticed yours are both H VS1. I wonder if all three were cut from the same rough? Any other siblings?

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-183730.htm#

Paul

All of the above have strong blue fluorescense... So basically if they're strong blue fluorescent they get rejected (but still sold). Otherwise it has to have good light performance and crisp hearts and arrows (which nearly all AGS-0 graded stones will have anyway because AGS measures light performance and modelled their "ideal" perameters after Eightstar's permaters- the original H & A marketers) And the brilliancescope won't be used to measue light performance because they don't believe in the technology.

 

[shiatsu]

Date: 2/1/2007 8:37:29 PM
Author: ezwinner701
so in conclusion I doubt there's ever been any of them like that, so my last question is why pay for the extra premium for the ACA when you can just get the AGS 000 from somewhere else.

It's all just marketing. GIA and AGS are the authorities, which is why we send our stones in to them to get graded and we don't send them to the Whiteflash or Hearts on Fire companies. If GIA or AGS says it's nice it'll be nice. With branded diamonds you just get another source saying it's nice, in ACA's case both AGS and Whiteflash agree it's nice. And this ca be a great service to their customers. But nearly any GIA Ex-Ex-Ex or AGS-000 is going to show nice hearts and arrows unless there is some serious graining issues or something. Hearts and arrows have just become a sales aid. They bring out the viewer and you ooh and ahh and they're much more likely to get the sale than if they didn't. Just remember this: there is no such thing as better than AGS-000. Some people may disagree, but this is what I've been told and am yet to see different.

 

[Skippy123]

What qualifies as an ES for Whiteflash; thanks!!!

 

[aljdewey]

I guess my question is.

What difference then is a ACA vs a

AGS 000 with light pro at 0
no floro and no funny girdles.

Is there any difference? because I don''t see any such ''rejects'' at the ES round selection.

I answered this question, but I''m game to answer again....

The ACAS are AGS000 with light performance of 0, no fluor and no funny girdles.....AND a perfect H&A pattern according to Brian''s standards.

The rest (ES, whatever) are not.

It appears you missed this part previously: "The ES stones may very well BE AGS000 with light performance of 0, no fluor and no funny girdles.....but since WF will only pay for that premium report on their H&A line, the remaining ES stones won''t have it."

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 2/1/2007 8:37:29 PM
Author: ezwinner701
so in conclusion I doubt there's ever been any of them like that, so my last question is why pay for the extra premium for the ACA when you can just get the AGS 000 from somewhere else.

EZ, I think you're still missing it. It's possible that many of the stones in the ES inventory would earn the AGS000 grading reports (new DQDs) IF they were submitted for that level of report. They don't have DQRs because they weren't capable of making the more elite DQD; it's because WF chooses the DQR report for ES stones.

They do this because DQR reports are less expensive, and they can therefore offer ES stones for exceptional value, and that's what ES stones are all about.....value for the money.

Maybe an example would be helpful:

Two purebred, AKC-registered dogs mate and produce 5 puppies. The litter of 5 puppies is registered with the AKC; therefore, all 5 puppies would be to earn the AKC registration pedigree. If one of those puppies is adopted by a family (who has no interest in showing the dog or breeding it), they may decide it's not worth paying the $200 to register the dog.
This doesn't mean the dog *couldn't* be a pedigreed dog or that it's inferior in any way; it simply means the owners made an economic choice not to pay the premium to obtain the piece of paper (registration) that is the pedigree.

I'd bet that many of the ES stones would get the AGS000 report IF they were submitted for it.

To your question above..."why pay the premium for an ACA?" Because to some folks, knowing their diamond exhibits that H&A pattern is important to them.....no different than folks who buy VVS stones. They can't discern the difference visually, but they get satisfaction from knowing that the "pedigree" says it's VVS quality.

 

[Finding_Neverland]

Date: 2/1/2007 9:08:43 PM
Author: ezwinner701
ofcourse if the prices were the SAME, then I would take the ACA in a heartbeat, but they are priced quite a bit higher compared to the similar stones thats why I asked of your own personal % difference.

Actually ACA's aren't priced higher than any other Vendor's H&A diamonds.

Look at the Price Stats here:

https://www.pricescope.com/RepScope.asp

And then look at Cut Quality Search Engine here:

https://www.pricescope.com/RepScope.asp

Select Excellent/Excellent for the cut parameters, and select "Include" for AGS0 and H&A. You're gonna pull all the AGS0 and GIA EX cut diamonds. H&A included. You'll see that all the Vendors are pretty competitive with one another on similar weights of the same color and clarity of diamonds.

The number one price determining factor for ANY diamond of any color or any clarity at any carat weight is CUT. The quality of the make. ALL H&A's carry a bit of a premium over 1A cut rank.

Edited to add,.......... Carat weight is the first determining factor. But an AGS0, 1 carat, D, IF, is gonna cost more than a 2-3A, 1 carat, D, IF.

Cut is the name of the game. If you want it,...... You're gonna have to pay for quality of workmanship.

 

[Kim N]

Date: 2/1/2007 10:04:39 PM
Author: shiatsu
It''s all just marketing. GIA and AGS are the authorities, which is why we send our stones in to them to get graded and we don''t send them to the Whiteflash or Hearts on Fire companies. If GIA or AGS says it''s nice it''ll be nice. With branded diamonds you just get another source saying it''s nice, in ACA''s case both AGS and Whiteflash agree it''s nice. And this ca be a great service to their customers. But nearly any GIA Ex-Ex-Ex or AGS-000 is going to show nice hearts and arrows unless there is some serious graining issues or something. Hearts and arrows have just become a sales aid. They bring out the viewer and you ooh and ahh and they''re much more likely to get the sale than if they didn''t. Just remember this: there is no such thing as better than AGS-000. Some people may disagree, but this is what I''ve been told and am yet to see different.

GIA Ex or AGS0 doesn''t guarantee hearts and arrows. A stone can be either GIA Ex or AGS0 without displaying a hearts and arrows pattern.

 

[coda72]

Date: 2/1/2007 8:37:29 PM
Author: ezwinner701
so in conclusion I doubt there''s ever been any of them like that, so my last question is why pay for the extra premium for the ACA when you can just get the AGS 000 from somewhere else.

Well, I don''t think there is much of a premium for an ACA. Not long ago, I found a beautiful ACA stone on WF. I decided to upgrade an ES stone I had bought the previous year. When I did a PS search to compare prices, this stone turned out to be the lowest price AGS0 stone in the 0.7-0.75 carat price range. So, of course I jumped on the ACA stone, and I don''t regret it in the least bit. So, don''t assume that an ACA is always more expensive than an unbranded AGS0.