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ACA stone rejects

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ezwinner701

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
52
I was reading the other thread about BS and ACA stones but seems like the thread got lock. It got me curious. Are there any AGS triple 0 stones with light proportions of 0 ( new reporting style) that has fluoro that''s been rejected from the ACA line? I searched but couldn''t find any. some links would be great if you guys can find them.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
I tried to reply that thread the other night, but it was locked before I could. Something very important to bear on your question:

The brand "A Cut Above" is bestowed when diamonds meet SEVERAL criteria, not just one. To qualify as an ACA stone, a diamond must:

--Achieve AGS0 grading
-- Exhibit superior light performance that satisfies Brian.
--Must display H&A pattern according to Brian's stringent definition of H&A (found on the WF website). This includes:
Uniform hearts - equal in size and shape
Crisp pattern
Distinct separate of hearts from arrowheads
In the hearts, no cleift split greater than 8% for more than 2 hearts
All 8 arrows must be clearly visible with shaft and arrowhead
Arrow shafts and heads must be straight ANd in correct position
All 8 arrow points must meet the girdle

If any one of these things falls short, the stone falls short of the requirements to earn the ACA brand.

This next part is KEY: Falling short of the brand doesn't mean it's not a superior diamond! "Reject" is a really strong word, and it tends to imply that a stone is wanting or inferior. Many of the ES stones juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust missed the grade on one or two minute elements. It's enough to keep them from ACA status, but they are still exemplary stones.

AND....those "just barely shy of ACA" stones come with a benefit: price. They don't carry the premium of the brand, so they can be great values.


The best analogy I can think of: 'summa cum laude' is bestowed on those who achieve higher than 3.75 GPA. 'Magna cum laude' is bestowed on those who achieve higher than 4.00 GPA. People who achieve summa cum laude (but fell just short of magna cum laude) are still pretty darn smart!


Simiarly, ACA diamonds are 'magna cum laude'. Those that just miss are still 'summa cum laude'......really gorgeous stones.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
i luv my summa cum laude ES stone!!

ES stones are exceptionally cut stones that might have just barely missed something to make ACA...sometimes our eyes cannot even pick out the difference between and ACA and an exceptional ES. also they become more affordable once they are in the ES category, which for me was a win win because I wanted a larger stone and I could get it for a bit cheaper than if it was an ACA. perk!
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Date: 2/1/2007 11:31:36 AM
Author: aljdewey
This next part is KEY: Falling short of the brand doesn''t mean it''s not a superior diamond! ''Reject'' is a really strong word, and it tends to imply that a stone is wanting or inferior. Many of the ES stones juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust missed the grade on one or two minute elements. It''s enough to keep them from ACA status, but they are still exemplary stones.

The best analogy I can think of: ''summa cum laude'' is bestowed on those who achieve higher than 3.75 GPA. ''Magna cum laude'' is bestowed on those who achieve higher than 4.00 GPA. People who achieve summa cum laude (but fell just short of magna cum laude) are still pretty darn smart!

Simiarly, ACA diamonds are ''magna cum laude''. Those that just miss are still ''summa cum laude''......really gorgeous stones.
I was just going to post something to this effect, as I read reject and cringed. Well said.
 

coda72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
1,633
Ok, here''s another question relating to this. I thought Whiteflash only got the DQD from AGS for ACA diamonds. The ES diamonds get the DQR. So why would there be any ES stones with a DQD?
 

KtIceRN

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
1,320
My 1.76ct stone was cut and from what I understand met the specs to be an ACA, it was even graded with a DQD, but........

The only reason it went to the ES was that it had strong blue flour, and Brian being old school, from what I am told, will not allow anything more than medium in the ACA brand.

There are definitely some GREAT deals in the ES!!!!!
 

fatkid

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
43
I think ES stones with the DQD are EVEN closer to being an ACA than one with just a DQR?

-r.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
okay, pardon my ignorance . . .
what does DQD and DQR stand for?
Thanks.
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Date: 2/1/2007 12:43:44 PM
Author: hikerchick
okay, pardon my ignorance . . .
what does DQD and DQR stand for?
Thanks.
Diamond Quality Document and Diamond Quality Report.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Date: 2/1/2007 12:49:10 PM
Author: Ellen
Date: 2/1/2007 12:43:44 PM

Author: hikerchick

okay, pardon my ignorance . . .

what does DQD and DQR stand for?

Thanks.
Diamond Quality Document and Diamond Quality Report.
Thanks Ellen. And what is the difference between these two and how do you know which one you have? Thanks again.

ETA: I just answered my own question.
 

the other Jake

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
423
Date: 2/1/2007 11:31:36 AM
Author: aljdewey
I tried to reply that thread the other night, but it was locked before I could. Something very important to bear on your question:

The brand 'A Cut Above' is bestowed when diamonds meet SEVERAL criteria, not just one. To qualify as an ACA stone, a diamond must:

--Achieve AGS0 grading
-- Exhibit superior light performance that satisfies Brian.
--Must display H&A pattern according to Brian's stringent definition of H&A (found on the WF website). This includes:
Uniform hearts - equal in size and shape
Crisp pattern
Distinct separate of hearts from arrowheads
In the hearts, no cleift split greater than 8% for more than 2 hearts
All 8 arrows must be clearly visible with shaft and arrowhead
Arrow shafts and heads must be straight ANd in correct position
All 8 arrow points must meet the girdle

If any one of these things falls short, the stone falls short of the requirements to earn the ACA brand.

This next part is KEY: Falling short of the brand doesn't mean it's not a superior diamond! 'Reject' is a really strong word, and it tends to imply that a stone is wanting or inferior. Many of the ES stones juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust missed the grade on one or two minute elements. It's enough to keep them from ACA status, but they are still exemplary stones.

AND....those 'just barely shy of ACA' stones come with a benefit: price. They don't carry the premium of the brand, so they can be great values.


The best analogy I can think of: 'summa cum laude' is bestowed on those who achieve higher than 3.75 GPA. 'Magna cum laude' is bestowed on those who achieve higher than 4.00 GPA. People who achieve summa cum laude (but fell just short of magna cum laude) are still pretty darn smart!


Simiarly, ACA diamonds are 'magna cum laude'. Those that just miss are still 'summa cum laude'......really gorgeous stones.
Sorry but Summa cum laude is a higher honor than magna cum laude. Sorry for correcting, but I didn't work to get summa for nothing!

Summa cum laude= 3.9 and above
Magna cum laude= 3.7- 3.899
Cum laude= 3.50-3.699
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Date: 2/1/2007 1:06:49 PM
Author: the other Jake
Date: 2/1/2007 11:31:36 AM

Author: aljdewey
Sorry but Summa cum laude is a higher honor than magna cum laude. Sorry for correcting, but I didn't work to get summa for nothing!


Summa cum laude= 3.9 and above

Magna cum laude= 3.7- 3.899

Cum laude= 3.50-3.699

Hehehe


I noticed this too but decided to keep the geeky comment to myself

Glad I wasn't the only one.
 

coda72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
1,633
Date: 2/1/2007 1:06:49 PM
Author: the other Jake

Sorry but Summa cum laude is a higher honor than magna cum laude. Sorry for correcting, but I didn''t work to get summa for nothing!

Summa cum laude= 3.9 and above
Magna cum laude= 3.7- 3.899
Cum laude= 3.50-3.699
Not to stray too far off topic, but these GPAs vary depending on which university or college you attend. I graduated in the cum laude category, but my university did not recognize it as cum laude. I received nothing for having achieved a good GPA!
 

the other Jake

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
423
Yea the GPA''s vary, but the honor levels are the same... Coda- at least you can take satisfaction in knowing you are a cum laude at James Madison University. lol
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
Back to the original revision.....BAH (having a day).....

I realized I wrote it backwards when pulling the info from Cornell's site. I went there being unclear on the GPA cutoffs, and obviously interchanged the two terms.

Anyway, I think the point of the analogy translated just the same.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Date: 2/1/2007 1:31:17 PM
Author: aljdewey
Back to the original revision.....BAH (having a day).....


I realized I wrote it backwards when pulling the info from Cornell''s site. I went there being unclear on the GPA cutoffs, and obviously interchanged the two terms.


Anyway, I think the point of the analogy translated just the same.
It was a great analogy and I totally got what you were saying, Al.
So, I can see the different reports DQD versus DQR but I guess I am curious as to the differences between the two and why one would be issued over the other, etc . . . any one have any info to help me understand?
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,472
Date: 2/1/2007 1:05:27 PM
Author: hikerchick

Date: 2/1/2007 12:49:10 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 2/1/2007 12:43:44 PM

Author: hikerchick

okay, pardon my ignorance . . .

what does DQD and DQR stand for?

Thanks.
Diamond Quality Document and Diamond Quality Report.
Thanks Ellen. And what is the difference between these two and how do you know which one you have? Thanks again.

ETA: I just answered my own question.
One costs a little more and has all of the cut grade information, including the cut grade.

Wink
 

Ellen

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
24,426
Date: 2/1/2007 1:31:17 PM
Author: aljdewey
Anyway, I think the point of the analogy translated just the same.
Yes.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
Date: 2/1/2007 1:34:45 PM
Author: hikerchick

So, I can see the different reports DQD versus DQR but I guess I am curious as to the differences between the two and why one would be issued over the other, etc . . . any one have any info to help me understand?
The DQR is an abridged grading report in that it doesn''t provide a cut grade. It also costs less.

The DQD is the elite, ultra-premium report in that it does provide a cut grade and therefore costs more.

Someone asked why an ES stone might have a DQD. I can think of two possible answers:

1. It might be an old-style DQD (meaning under the old system that doesn''t assess light performance)

2. It might have been an older ES stone. I seem to recall that some ES stones had full DQDs in the really old days, but
at some point, WF made an economically smart decision to go with the DQR. Doing so allows them to offer those
stones at a slightly better value, and that''s the whole point of the ES inventory: value for the money.
 

KtIceRN

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
1,320
Date: 2/1/2007 1:47:38 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 2/1/2007 1:34:45 PM
Author: hikerchick

So, I can see the different reports DQD versus DQR but I guess I am curious as to the differences between the two and why one would be issued over the other, etc . . . any one have any info to help me understand?
The DQR is an abridged grading report in that it doesn''t provide a cut grade. It also costs less.

The DQD is the elite, ultra-premium report in that it does provide a cut grade and therefore costs more.

Someone asked why an ES stone might have a DQD. I can think of two possible answers:

1. It might be an old-style DQD (meaning under the old system that doesn''t assess light performance)

2. It might have been an older ES stone. I seem to recall that some ES stones had full DQDs in the really old days, but
at some point, WF made an economically smart decision to go with the DQR. Doing so allows them to offer those
stones at a slightly better value, and that''s the whole point of the ES inventory: value for the money.
Aljdewey,

My ES stone has a DQD that is dated 12/13/2006. It''s not an old stone or a old style DQD as mine does grade my stone a 000 (light performance, proportion factors and finish)
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Date: 2/1/2007 1:47:38 PM
Author: aljdewey
Date: 2/1/2007 1:34:45 PM

Author: hikerchick


So, I can see the different reports DQD versus DQR but I guess I am curious as to the differences between the two and why one would be issued over the other, etc . . . any one have any info to help me understand?
The DQR is an abridged grading report in that it doesn''t provide a cut grade. It also costs less.


The DQD is the elite, ultra-premium report in that it does provide a cut grade and therefore costs more.


Someone asked why an ES stone might have a DQD. I can think of two possible answers:


1. It might be an old-style DQD (meaning under the old system that doesn''t assess light performance)


2. It might have been an older ES stone. I seem to recall that some ES stones had full DQDs in the really old days, but

at some point, WF made an economically smart decision to go with the DQR. Doing so allows them to offer those

stones at a slightly better value, and that''s the whole point of the ES inventory: value for the money.
Belle, thank you for the link. I am gonna go read up on it.
Al,

My diamond was an ES with a DQD, new style and the diamond was graded on 12/13/06 so it is new as well. The hearts and arrows look perfect to me but maybe didn''t pass WF''s stringent ACA requirements or it could just be because of the strong blue fluor as someone stated previously. All, I know is it is GORGEOUS and I didn''t pay the ACA premium . . . I am a BIG fan of the ES selection, beautiful diamonds at a great price.
 

hikerchick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Messages
804
Date: 2/1/2007 2:00:11 PM
Author: KtIceRN
Date: 2/1/2007 1:47:38 PM

Author: aljdewey


Date: 2/1/2007 1:34:45 PM

Author: hikerchick


So, I can see the different reports DQD versus DQR but I guess I am curious as to the differences between the two and why one would be issued over the other, etc . . . any one have any info to help me understand?
The DQR is an abridged grading report in that it doesn''t provide a cut grade. It also costs less.


The DQD is the elite, ultra-premium report in that it does provide a cut grade and therefore costs more.


Someone asked why an ES stone might have a DQD. I can think of two possible answers:


1. It might be an old-style DQD (meaning under the old system that doesn''t assess light performance)


2. It might have been an older ES stone. I seem to recall that some ES stones had full DQDs in the really old days, but

at some point, WF made an economically smart decision to go with the DQR. Doing so allows them to offer those

stones at a slightly better value, and that''s the whole point of the ES inventory: value for the money.
Aljdewey,


My ES stone has a DQD that is dated 12/13/2006. It''s not an old stone or a old style DQD as mine does grade my stone a 000 (light performance, proportion factors and finish)
KT,

We were posting at the same time. I wonder if our diamonds are siblings . . . both strong blue, both graded on 12/13/06 . . . both ES from WF. Wouldn''t that be cool????
 

KtIceRN

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 28, 2006
Messages
1,320
Hikerchick,

I think our diamonds are siblings!! That is very cool!


We will have to have a bday party for them next year!


I know mine didn''t get the ACA becasuse of the strong blue, maybe thats the only reason yours didn''t either??

There are truly some GREAT deals in the ES!!!!!!!!
 

ezwinner701

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
52
Thanks for the links, but I had said in the initial thread the criteria was with not any fluoro. And those two had strong blue.

I still have not found any that has the following.

AGS 000 with light Pro at 0
no fluoro
and no funny girdles.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143



Date: 2/1/2007 2:42:47 PM
Author: ezwinner701
Thanks for the links, but I had said in the initial thread the criteria was with not any fluoro. And those two had strong blue.

I still have not found any that has the following.

AGS 000 with light Pro at 0
no fluoro
and no funny girdles.
I doubt that you'll be able to find many instances of your above criteria because of this reason:

My guess is that Brian evaluates the stones for H&A quality prior to sending them to the lab. If they don't meet the H&A standard and won't make ACA, they'd be submitted automatically for DQR reports because he already knows they'll go into ES, and the company has decided to pay for the lesser-priced DQR report on ES stones.

This would also explain why there are a few stones with fluor that have DQD/0 light performance reports.....because until the grading report comes back, it's tough to tell how much fluor the lab will say it has. If it comes back as "strong fluor", it's already got the DQD at that point, but it would miss the ACA brand due to amount of fluor. This would account for the instances of Ktn and Hiker's stones.

(Speaking of which......Ktn and Hiker - I did note that the scenarios I listed above were just two *possible* reasons that I could think of, realizing that there may be other reasons (such as yours) that I hadn't thought about.)

All of that said, it's entirely possible that a number of those ES stones would earn the AGS0 with light performance distinction if they were to be submitted for those more expensive reports.
 
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