abazias stone , first appraisal

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/26/2008 5:47:48 PM
Author: wasp9166
i doubt they'll go for that, i didnt miss it mind you,perhaps id keep the stone and get money back, who knows, this whole experience is kinda frustrating

I’m confident you’re right, they won’t go for it. That’s because they know as well as you do that it wouldn’t pass this test and they’d get stuck with a few hundred dollars worth of bills and no buyer. You are not the first buyer to observe that EGLI grading is not the same as GIA’s. So it seems like you agree that it’s not as described and the question remaining is ‘what is it?’ I absolutely agree with the above, all graders are not equal and you need to decide who to believe. Then you need to believe them. Changing the subject to ‘how wrong could EGLI be?’ is asking the wrong question. Who cares? This is about one particular stone. You may already have the right answer from the appraiser you used but you need to assess her credibility and her methodology. If she meets your standards than go with her and decide what you want to do based on the assumption that she’s correct. If she comes up short, find someone else who doesn’t.

One more or less reasonable choice is to decide that you don’t care. Assuming that we're debating the grading, not whether it's the correct stone for the report, it *IS* an EGLI/SI1/I/Ideal, it was priced competitively for that, you’ve got it in hand and you do seem to love it. That sounds a lot like success. What some other grader using a different grading scale thinks of it is perhaps irrelevant at this point.

As I understand it, Abazias works mostly on a cost+ basis with their suppliers and they maintain a fairly low margin, which is why their prices are attractive. They don’t really have much room to discount based on grading arguments. I agree with Richard that Abazias is a well regarded outfit and I’m sure they would take it back or find you something else but more than a token discount on this one I think is unlikely.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[wasp9166]

exactly what i was thinking, why i thought let me not twist horns, ill tell them im unhappy, send it back , and say, swap it out for this one, then ill have that sent over to richard and go from there..............they did knock $400 off from the price to match the original one i picked out, at this point , i doubt that matters , but a nice gesture nonetheless..................im eyeing 2 stones on their site to request a swap with both are 2.50 G , si2 , ideal cuts with ex symetry..... both are egl-usa, just need to see the certs to see where the inclusions are...............to be honest, i didnt do enuff homework, i wish id thought of this site earlier, after my app today , i was driving home and thought, where do i go from here? i decided to find a forum and get some opinions, now i think im on the better road.................and knowing what i now know, im staying away from egl I stones..............i could see if it came back a j but 3 or 4 notches is just too much for me to swallow.............and you can be sure , abazias will see this discussion..........


sure i could get another app, but id have to pay $100 probably, she may not be the be all end all of app, i have no idea of her knowledge, but since its an egl i , i dont think it matters

 

[arjunajane]

Wasp, you cannot judge how the inclusions will look in real life by looking at the certs. With an accurately graded si2, you need to either see the stone yourself, or have someone who''s eyes you trust look at it for you. (such as one of the appraisers mentioned in this thread, or a vendor who has the stone in house and can properly assess it for you).

Just remember, your first stone was supposed to be si1 and it came back allegedly I clarity. You need to *usually* shop GIA or AGS and be reasonably studious/lucky to find completely eyeclean SI2''s. I would have doubts that you will be happy with these other stones.

You say you need to do more research, I am inclined to agree.
How do you feel about returning Abazia''s stone, and starting over with a vendor that has AGS/GIA and doesn''t drop-ship?
You may have to sacrifice a bit in the size, but at least you will know you are getting the cut, colour and clarity you are paying for.


As others have explained, EGL stones may look like a deal, but once you find out how many grades off the cert is, the price is now pretty much in line with other labs - and no longer a deal at all.

 

[wasp9166]

the app said it was si2 , not I...............erin told me it was eyeclean , and it is...........erin told me there was nothing in the table, and there wasnt......id trust her again.................i would like to know where the inclusions are as i dont want any in table, i cant be there to see it, and how could i have an app see it without paying for it?......................its hit or miss i know...............i dont think abazias or erin steered me wrong, i just think i bought and egl israel stone and got what was to be expected in the color dept.............still looks ok to me to be honest................i would trust her again if she told me eye clean and where the inclusions were...............how much more accurate are egl usa stones in the color dept? i cant afford a gia stone in the size i want, well, in the size shell be happy with

btw, little background on my situation, i was with this girl for 15 yrs, she wanted a ring and to get married in the worst way, i wasnt ready for whatever reason, i broke up with her, ive been single for 2 yrs, i havent found anyone better for me and she hasnt been able to move on, i need to do the right thing, and to me, a 1ct just isnt going to cut it...........so, im wiling to sacrifice a little..........a 4 category diff in color is too much, so we play again

 

[wasp9166]

here is a pic of the subject in question

 

[arjunajane]

Ok, sorry I wrote I when I meant Si2 - my comments still stand regardless.

I am not commenting on your r''ship with your SA, as everyone is different. As a new customer to diamonds, if my SA didn''t mention the potential discrepancies for EGLI, I would be upset. But thats me, not you.

In all honesty, the stone does look to be throwing a bit of warmth in the pic - and this is from someone who has a K as my ering, so I''m not biased toward icey white stones or anything. I think its just too many grades difference, you should start over.

You sound like you are intent on buying from abazias, so all I would suggest is make sure it is at least EGL USA, and send it to one of the appraisers on the PS list - even better one of the ones on this thread. I don''t think $100 is too much, seeing as when you started this thread you were planning on having at least 3x appraisals at ~$25ea done, correct?
Don''t forget, you also need the appraisal for insurance purposes, and the more reliable info thats on there, the better off your position if unfortunately you ever did need to make a claim.

I''m sure if you post the links to stones you are considering here first, the folks will be very happy to help guide you to the better choice.
good luck!

 

[wasp9166]

oh no, i planned on 3 app at $100 each ,lol...............i think the easiest thing to do at this point is stick with abazias, even in this post they are still backed up so, im sure they will make it right...............then im going to send it to richard and go from there, ill try one more stone from abazias, and stay away from egl i...........

here are the 2 stones im going to ask if they still have and do a swap

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=53935723&src=builder

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=1683057064&src=builder


BUT, i want a verbal first from erin, on where the inclusions are and if they are eye clean..............if i dont get satisfactory answers ill have to pic other stones, but this is where im at right now

 

[CharmyPoo]

I am sure your girlfriend just wants to move to a stable life and the size of the diamond doesn't matter so much. You have to be sure that she is the right girl and you are getting married for the right reason. I don't know anything about you and your girl and you didn't ask for my opinion so I will shut up now

Coming from someone who can even see warmth in a G stone, take my thoughts with a grain of salt. I can definetly see a lot of wamth in your stone but it is really hard to judge based on a photo and the variances in our monitor. Get something you are happy with and feels right to you. I am also not sure if it is just the photograph but I see something at 9 o'clock and around 5 o'clock on the diamond. The rest will fall into place.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/26/2008 9:13:18 PM
Author: wasp9166
here is a pic of the subject in question

It is hard to tell from the pic, but here are my thoughts for what they are worth based on the photo. I have an EGL USA graded diamond which is larger than that and is an L colour, and it does not or has ever looked as warm as that diamond based on the photo - now this is pure speculation as you can't judge diamond colour accurately from photos on a computer monitor, so don't take this as being an opinion of any validity -but in my non expert opinion I would say it is a lower colour than the I it is graded at.

 

[wasp9166]

nm richard, i found all your info on abazias, ill be in touch


im going to return this usps insured , what should i insure it for , what i payed for it?

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 12/27/2008 10:23:51 AM
Author: wasp9166
nm richard, i found all your info on abazias, ill be in touch


im going to return this usps insured , what should i insure it for , what i payed for it?

Yep.

 

[girlie-girl]

I don't think it's prudent to 'blame' Abazias for EGL-Israel's grading snafu. They do sell GIA stones but it sounds to me like the GIA stones carried a price tag that you were uncomfortable with and that the EGL-I stones were more within your price range for the carat weight you were seeking. EGL is cheaper for a reason.

I purchased my radiant from Abazias and they were a delight to work with. Of course I had already read about the discrepancies in the grading from EGL labs so steered clear. I bought a diamond with a GIA certificate and couldn't be happier.

Good luck finding the perfect stone in your budget.

 

[wasp9166]

oh , im not blaming them at all, like i said, im going to try another stone from them and steer clear of egl i .............im sure things will work out, its on its way back usps registered, return receipt insured for what i payed............

 

[girlie-girl]

Sorry I wasn''t more clear Wasp.

I could tell you weren''t blaming Abazias, but some of the other posters'' tone seemed to. I just would hate for a good vendor to get blacklisted just because they offer EGL graded stones.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 12/27/2008 12:05:55 PM
Author: girlie-girl
Sorry I wasn''t more clear Wasp.

I could tell you weren''t blaming Abazias, but some of the other posters'' tone seemed to. I just would hate for a good vendor to get blacklisted just because they offer EGL graded stones.

I don''t think anyone was blaming Abazias.

 

[wasp9166]

nah, i just wish theyd been a little more informative , but hey, the research is for me to do , and i didnt do enuff of it, its their job to sell egl I stones...........just not to me

....................no harm, live and learn, i just hope they can find me a stone i like, ive yet to find anyone else with comparable prices

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 12/27/2008 12:55:22 PM
Author: CharmyPoo

Date: 12/27/2008 12:05:55 PM
Author: girlie-girl
Sorry I wasn't more clear Wasp.

I could tell you weren't blaming Abazias, but some of the other posters' tone seemed to. I just would hate for a good vendor to get blacklisted just because they offer EGL graded stones.

I don't think anyone was blaming Abazias.

Who was blaming Abazia's ?

I didn't even know there was "blame" in this thread, we were just discussing the OP's options as per his questions..


Good to hear you are returning the stone Wasp, I hope you find one you love

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 12/27/2008 1:24:55 PM
Author: wasp9166
nah, i just wish theyd been a little more informative , but hey, the research is for me to do , and i didnt do enuff of it, its their job to sell egl I stones...........just not to me

....................no harm, live and learn, i just hope they can find me a stone i like, ive yet to find anyone else with comparable prices

Well, you think they have "better" prices because they are selling stones that are not really what they say on paper. So in actuality, you do only get what you pay for. There are several other vendors here with good prices for stones with accurate certs. You can't compare an EGL stone with a GIA or AGS stone with the same specs because the EGL stones are often lower than their grading. If you read on here awhile, you'll see that most here favor vendors that specilaize in ideal cut stones graded by GIA and AGS because they handpick the stones they carry and price them fairly. You almost always get what you pay for.

(I'd go as low as G color on an EGL USA cert and as low as I color on a GIA or AGS cert.)

 

[wasp9166]

nice, the g was going to be my ending point as well, if they dont have one, ill wait, im in no rush to make a bad decision twice,things happen for a reason...........i am wondering one thing tho, is it a problem returning a stone allready set? meaning if they swap it, will the setting be compromised in any way?

 

[girlie-girl]

Seems as though you were the one who generated my response.

Date: 12/26/2008 8:38:27 PM
Author: arjunajane
How do you feel about returning Abazia''s stone, and starting over with a vendor that has AGS/GIA and doesn''t drop-ship?

If you notice I put blame in quotation marks in my initial post as it was the best word I could come up with at that moment.

Abazias DOES sell GIA stones, the OP just is choosing not to select from them because they''re not in the price range he''s willing to pay. You recommended that he switch to another vendor who offers GIA/AGS. That''s where the ''blame'' comes into play.

There are a lot of Pricescope vendors other than WF and GOG who can provide excellent stones. And in fact, WF even offers EGL stones in their listings.

As I said before, it''s not the vendor, it''s the grading lab that''s causing the strife. Some people are very happy with their EGL graded stones. Sure you have to be a bit leaner in the specs because their grading is said to be softer, but as Wasp even stated himself... the research is for him to do and he didn''t do it. As far as getting what he''s paying for? He is, as the EGL stones are noticeably cheaper than the GIA/AGS equivalents.

I just don''t think it''s fair to suggest he switch vendors. That''s the point I was trying to make, but it failed to come across somehow.

 

[wasp9166]

nah, i wont swtich until i feel they arent doing me right, this was my fault..........no reason to switch, everything they told me was true, i did ask about the certs, and she did explain to me the variances, and i did question, well then, an I in israel wont be an I in usa then right? and she said it depends..........its all good, im sticking with abazias for now.................one more stone, if the egl usa they give me grades 2 or 3 off in color i take my money elsewhere.........i dont think it should...............it was graded crappy by egl i and not enuff homework was done on my part, abazias was the middle man..........im confident ill be happy with the next stone, i have to be in order to keep a clear head, lol

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 12/28/2008 10:11:30 AM
Author: girlie-girl
Seems as though you were the one who generated my response.

Date: 12/26/2008 8:38:27 PM
Author: arjunajane
How do you feel about returning Abazia's stone, and starting over with a vendor that has AGS/GIA and doesn't drop-ship?

If you notice I put blame in quotation marks in my initial post as it was the best word I could come up with at that moment.

Abazias DOES sell GIA stones, the OP just is choosing not to select from them because they're not in the price range he's willing to pay. You recommended that he switch to another vendor who offers GIA/AGS. That's where the 'blame' comes into play.

There are a lot of Pricescope vendors other than WF and GOG who can provide excellent stones. And in fact, WF even offers EGL stones in their listings.

As I said before, it's not the vendor, it's the grading lab that's causing the strife. Some people are very happy with their EGL graded stones. Sure you have to be a bit leaner in the specs because their grading is said to be softer, but as Wasp even stated himself... the research is for him to do and he didn't do it. As far as getting what he's paying for? He is, as the EGL stones are noticeably cheaper than the GIA/AGS equivalents.

I just don't think it's fair to suggest he switch vendors. That's the point I was trying to make, but it failed to come across somehow.

Yes it did. Why is it not fair?

I had a long response all typed out explaining myself, but deleted it.
Girlie Girl you have misunderstood my contribution to this thread so badly, I don't know where to begin.

I don't think that you should take other ppl's comments about vendors/labs so personally, because you own an EGL stone and bought from Abazias.
I never said someone cannot be happy with an EGL graded stone, and I also never said that someone cannot get a good stone from anywhere but WF and GOG. I was only making suggestions to Wasp, and I would appreciate you not twisting my statements.

 

[girlie-girl]

LOL Wow. I''m not sure what the issue is Arjunajane. I''m not taking anything personally but it seems you are. I just don''t think it''s right to suggest he switch "to a vendor who offers GIA/AGS stones" when he''s already working with one who DOES.

If you read my post again you will see I DON''T have an EGL graded stone from Abazias, I have a GIA graded stone from Abazias. That was my main point. They DO sell GIA stones, so that is why I didn''t understand why you suggested he go to another vendor. That is also why I didn''t think it was fair to suggest he go to another vendor.

If you read thoroughly you will also see I never said YOU SAID anything about GOG or WF. Just most people here point posters to those two vendors when others are quite able to provide nice stones as well. I find it funny that you are being so defensive. If you didn''t say what I''m talking about in my post, and I didn''t say you said it... why are you attaching it to yourself? It makes no sense.

Point being. Abazias sells GIA stones, so there is no need to switch to a different vendor if he''s happy with this one.

I''m not here to argue and I don''t think I should have been accused of twisting anything aj when you clearly didn''t read my comments well enough.

 

[LaraOnline]

Ah, is it really that big a deal? I mean, the customer is always right, right? Sure, it would be nice to stay with Abazias if you like their service, have a good rapport, etc, but ultimately if the return of the stone fits in with their policies, who is really to care?
There''s a particular ring design on their site that I really like the look of, actually.

Wasp was attracted to Abazias for a reason - they have really competitive pricing. He has already said he''s hoping to stick with them.
But there''s no moral obligation, is there?
I think the most important thing is that Wasp gets the right stone, he doesn''t want to skimp on his girl.

 

[AGBF]

A thread on rubies led me to read about this story. Whatever happened with the engagement ring?




Deborah

 

[wasp9166]

sent it back , working with yekutiel at id jewelry now, there is another thread about it from me.............abazias robbed me on a setting, so now i have an extra setting that i think ill throw a ruby in for her bd