abazias stone , first appraisal

[wasp9166]

ok, my first post, at this point im not that happy, still have 2 more app to get but this is what my first had to say

cert from abazias says 2.24c ideal,si1 , I

carat- 2.36 (based on measurements, so not a problem)

cut- not ideal ( while she said its well cut, it is not ideal, but this could be a fine line and her interpretation so, not too worried, it does pop nice)

clarity- si2 ( again, could be a fine line and her interpretation)

color- HERES WHERE IM VERY DISAPPOINTED L/M ( she says that there is no way its even close to an I )

so, i wanted to get others that have bought from abazias opinions, how close were the appraisals? like i said im getting 2 more but at this point , im a bit taken back

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/26/2008 2:35:31 PM
Author:wasp9166
ok, my first post, at this point im not that happy, still have 2 more app to get but this is what my first had to say

cert from abazias says 2.24c ideal,si1 , I

carat- 2.36 (based on measurements, so not a problem)

cut- not ideal ( while she said its well cut, it is not ideal, but this could be a fine line and her interpretation so, not too worried, it does pop nice)

clarity- si2 ( again, could be a fine line and her interpretation)

color- HERES WHERE IM VERY DISAPPOINTED L/M ( she says that there is no way its even close to an I )

so, i wanted to get others that have bought from abazias opinions, how close were the appraisals? like i said im getting 2 more but at this point , im a bit taken back

Hi Wasp and welcome!

First a couple of questions...Which type of grading report does the diamond have, GIA, EGL, AGS etc? Also does the person who did your appraisal sell jewellery or are they are true independant appraiser?

 

[wasp9166]

egl, she works at a jewelry store , as do most i can find in my area, claims she has 22 yrs experience


im trying to get a good pic up

little fuzzy but, trying to get out to gym

damn, no image shack hosting here?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Honestly, I believe all you need is one good appraisal versus 3 or 4. Have you tried looking for one from this list https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx? It has been said that EGL (non USA) certificates can be a few grades off.

PS: You can only upload images with unique file name here. No photo linking.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/26/2008 2:47:52 PM
Author: wasp9166
egl, she works at a jewelry store , as do most i can find in my area, claims she has 22 yrs experience


im trying to get a good pic up

Ok, well if she also sells jewellery then you might not be getting an unbiased opinion, check out this tool to find an independant appraiser in your area who can give you a ' disinterested' opinion.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

If you read this page then you will see how the grading labs rank, EGL is said to be soft on grading in some circumstances, with EGL USA thought to be the strongest of the EGL labs, do you know which EGL lab graded your diamond - EGL USA, Israel, Antwerp etc?

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp

 

[wasp9166]

israel, however, I to L/M isnt a couple , and btw, the master stones she used were cubic zirconia, is this normal?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/26/2008 2:58:25 PM
Author: wasp9166
israel, however, I to L/M isnt a couple

If you do a search for EGL Israel, you will be able to read up on some professional opinions regarding this lab. I would get an appraisal from a true independant appraiser if you want to consider keeping this diamond, so you know exactly what you have. Are you within the return period for this diamond? Apparently some appraisers do use CZ master stones, however I have heard they are prone to fading so reliably graded diamond masters are preferable.

 

[wasp9166]

ill get one done by someone off the llink you provided...............erin at abazias said i could take as long as i needed when i questioned the 10 day return policy


from the tone of your reply, i take it this lab isnt so great huh?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/26/2008 3:09:35 PM
Author: wasp9166
ill get one done by someone off the llink you provided...............erin at abazias said i could take as long as i needed when i questioned the 10 day return policy

I would tell her of your concerns and make sure that you can return the diamond should it not check out to your satisfaction in any aspect as a result of an independant appraisal - and do get that in writing as C mentioned.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 12/26/2008 3:09:35 PM
Author: wasp9166
erin at abazias said i could take as long as i needed when i questioned the 10 day return policy

Make sure you have that in writing just in case. In general, the PSers stick to AGS or GIA. Some go for EGL-USA. There is nothing wrong with the other certificates as long as you know that their grading is much softer and you know what you are paying for.

You should also try plugging in your diamond numbers at https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp. Anything under 2 is desireable.

 

[wasp9166]

guess i didnt do enuff homework, erin from abazias says they sell primarily egl stones...............i remember she told me it was an israel cert, she didnt send me the original, sent a photocopy saying if i decided to keep the rock she would drop ship the original, however, i see no israel anywhere on the cert.........

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 12/26/2008 3:15:50 PM
Author: wasp9166
guess i didnt do enuff homework, erin from abazias says they sell primarily egl stones...............i remember she told me it was an israel cert, she didnt send me the original, sent a photocopy saying if i decided to keep the rock she would drop ship the original, however, i see no israel anywhere on the cert.........

Is it a 10 digit number on the grading report? This would denote EGL Israel.

 

[wasp9166]

yes it is, well this bites, first thing i said to erin was, man, thats an awfully low price for a 2.24c in that color..........i payed 10g even.........im kind of on the fence whether i got ripped or not...............anyone from abazias frequent these forums? maybe we could settle this painlessly, closest app off that link is an hour away for me.....................i only payed $25 for todays, seemed cheap, everyone else wants near $100

like i said, the cut makes it pop real nice, and ive read egl israel stones are cut well usually but tend to be off 2 grades in color........mine is three or four from first app

 

[MustangGal]

Is the stone mounted in a ring? I''ve heard it can be harder to accuratly grade the color on a mounted stone...

 

[CharmyPoo]

What are the specs on the cert? What does it score on the cut advisor - https://www.pricescope.com/cutadviser.asp?

 

[wasp9166]

yes , its set in a platinum ring

it scores 1.3?

altho the app today said it wasnt a 57% table so, who knows if this data is even true

depth-61.9%

width-57%

crown-15%

pav-43%

girdle thick -medium

pol-ex sym-ex cutlet-none

 

[denverappraiser]

Getting a bunch of appraisals and choosing the most popular conclusion is NOT a sensible grading strategy. If your next appraiser agrees with the first, does that make them right? What if they agree with Abazias? What if they have a 3rd opinion entirely?

Abazias didn’t grade it, EGL-Israel did although Abazias is using them as their chosen expert so the effect is the same. They are relying 100% on what EGLI has told them. There’s a pretty good chance that no one at Abazias ever even saw the stone before you bought it and maybe not even after that (depending on the shipping details and who did the setting). If you don’t want to believe EGL-Israel, you need to decide who you *DO* want to believe. Choose your expert. They did.

Frankly, my suggestion at this point is to offer this deal to the seller: You send it back, they take it out of the setting (assuming that they’re the ones who set it) and they send it off to GIA for grading. If it comes back SI1/I/VG or better, you not only keep the stone, you will pay for both the GIA fees and all of the shipping and insurance costs. Anything less and the deal is off, they pay the fees and if they want to make an offer to get you to buy the stone anyway they do so based on the new grading information and you can buy or not as you wish with no obligation.

There are some well qualified and independent appraisers out here who can grade mounted stones with reasonable accuracy but there will always be a nagging doubt about whether you really got what was agreed to or whether the appraiser was the problem (either too harsh or too generous). At this point you need to hear it straight from the proverbial horses' mouth.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[wasp9166]

erin told me vai email it was eye clean and nice, supposedly they set it, it came from israel, to claifornia, to abazias, to me

i know its a gamble when not looking at it, but id heard good things about abazias and the price was within my budget of 12g


there is 2 things going on here, to me, it looks nice, it has great sparkle, and i dont see any hint of yellow, but im no expert, so, im weighing out

do i like it? yes

was i lied to ? perhaps

was it worth what i payed? debateable, but this is the first and will be the last rock this big i buy...........the girl nagged me for 15 yrs, i finally came around lol

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 12/26/2008 3:40:41 PM
Author: wasp9166
yes , its set in a platinum ring

it scores 1.3?

I wouldn't place too much faith in your appraiser - I mean $25 and saying it is a poorly cut stone ... just doesn't sound right to me. Your stone sounds like it is well cut and falls into the excellent and ideal ranges for GIA and AGS (assuming the cert isn't that far off). There are a couple great appraisers on PS - some have posted already with a great suggestion. There is also Richard Sherwood. Their prices will be a lot more than $25 but you get what you pay for. Peace of mind is worth it.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 12/26/2008 2:58:25 PM
Author: wasp9166
israel, however, I to L/M isnt a couple , and btw, the master stones she used were cubic zirconia, is this normal?

It’s common although I would not use the word ‘normal’. It is not in compliance with GIA grading methodology.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Richard Sherwood]

It would not be unusual for an EGL-Israel cert stone graded I/SI1 to be truly an LM/SI2.

Here''s the thing to remember though. An EGL Israel stone trades for a greater discount on the market than GIA, AGS, or EGL-USA. Therefore you usually end up getting exactly what you paid for.

And indeed, a 2.24 L/SI2 would be fairly priced on the internet market at $10,000. An M/SI2 would be a little overpriced.

You just have to remember that you''re buying the stone, and not the paper (in the case of EGL-Israel stones).

Just have it graded by someone who knows what they''re doing.

PS- My experience with Abazias is that they are reputable company.

 

[wasp9166]

yeah, i was thinking eh, whats $25 , im going to get one done off the link lorelie provided and go from there, i dont know, it looks great to me, and i was like man, what a deal for that size, i had picked out a 2.15 vs12 ,i , stone but they told me it was sold and suggested this, and said oh well match the price, i said ,yeah but, i dont wana go up in size and down in quality, little did i know.........im hoping they didnt pawn something off on me, ...............dont women prefer size to show all their friends anyway? lol

 

[Steel]

You have received wonderful advcice here!

Date: 12/26/2008 3:44:10 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Getting a bunch of appraisals and choosing the most popular conclusion is NOT a sensible grading strategy. If your next appraiser agrees with the first, does that make them right? What if they agree with Abazias? What if they have a 3rd opinion entirely?

Abazias didn’t grade it, EGL-Israel did although Abazias is using them as their chosen expert so the effect is the same. They are relying 100% on what EGLI has told them. There’s a pretty good chance that no one at Abazias ever even saw the stone before you bought it and maybe not even after that (depending on the shipping details and who did the setting). If you don’t want to believe EGL-Israel, you need to decide who you *DO* want to believe. Choose your expert. They did.

Frankly, my suggestion at this point is to offer this deal to the seller: You send it back, they take it out of the setting (assuming that they’re the ones who set it) and they send it off to GIA for grading. If it comes back SI1/I/VG or better, you not only keep the stone, you will pay for both the GIA fees and all of the shipping and insurance costs. Anything less and the deal is off, they pay the fees and if they want to make an offer to get you to buy the stone anyway they do so based on the new grading information and you can buy or not as you wish with no obligation.

There are some well qualified and independent appraisers out here who can grade mounted stones with reasonable accuracy but there will always be a nagging doubt about whether you really got what was agreed to or whether the appraiser was the problem (either too harsh or too generous). At this point you need to hear it straight from the proverbial horses' mouth.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I think this is a particularly good solution. It would irk me to spend more money initially but it really does make sense here.

 

[wasp9166]

i doubt theyll go for that, i didnt miss it mind you,perhaps id keep the stone and get money back, who knows, this whole experience is kinda frustrating

 

[wasp9166]

still wondering what im going to do, how are egl usa grading ? closer to what they say? i notice on abazias site, there is egl i, egl usa and just plain egl (what is this?)........thinking about how im going to approach them so comparing what they sell other lower colored stones for, i could either keep this and tell them i want some reimbursal or a diff stone.............im not leaning towards a full refund at this point, dont want this to drag on for weeks

 

[CharmyPoo]

It sounds like you are set on the stone. Just get it re-appraised and if there is a significant different then request a price adjustment. I don''t think the appraisers on the list are equal - where do you live?

I know this whole process is very frustrating. I am the girl half and I had ups and downs even though I thought I was somewhat educated.

 

[wasp9166]

im not set on it, but, if i can go up in size and color while keeping the amount i spent the same, to compensate for my disatisfaction, i may use the situation im in now to my advantage.......................like i was just looking at a 2.5 g color on their site for damn near what i spent on this , and its an egl usa cert..............so im wondering how much closer that grading would be.................wont be able to do anything till monday so, im going to set up my plan of attack..............im an hour south of albany ny

12477 zip, planned on using jim naughton , but, if i can just work this out with abazias, i may forgoe that

 

[strmrdr]

With Neil and Rich 2 very well respected appraisers and people I respect a lot answering there isn''t much I can add.
Except id would send it off to one of those 2 for an appraisal.

Either one can give you peace of mind and help as needed.
The odds of grading report being right are very slim and the price reflected that.
The real question is did you pay a fair price for what you got.
Either Neil or Richard can answer that question.

If you decide to try a different stone have it sent to them directly from Abazias for an appraisal.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Based on my interactions with Richard, I have no hesistation about using him. I know my next stone is going there.

 

[wasp9166]

richard , your in sarasota? that may be something worth looking into, swapping this out with abazias and having them send it over to richard..............would be a quick turn around being they are in gainseville