A padparadscha

[henrietta]

Hi, it's my first thread here. I've read some threads about pad here, and impressed by the recent one about what's the ideal color of it. Many say it's not likely possible to buy one on Ebay since many sellers like to call their stone "pads" while they are not. But my story is quite interesting and the opposite.
About one and a half years ago I came across an Ebay auction.The Thiland seller is with good reputation, specializes in sapphires. Most are from ceylon and some are from Africa, including heated and unheated among them. In one of his actions there's one described as "unheated 1.1ct orangish pink sapphire",orgin is ceylon. The pic seemed to be a soft pink stone, very small and can not be enlarged due to network error.The auction ended up with not high price and I got it. Later when I received the stone, I was so surprised by its beauty which strongly reminds me of the sky in sunset. According to the description of padparadscha I searched, I later believed it to be a true one. What's ironic is that in the seller's store, there were at that time some "padparadscha sapphire" which are actually pretty hot pink heated sapphires from Africa, sold at much higher price. I'm so happy I got my one by opportunity and love it so much.

Its color looks so soft and vivid, uniform, of medium saturation or maybe a little lighter than that in some light.And in my view, it almost has equal pink and orange for pads,or maybe more pink? I can never see any yellowish, brownish or single orangish shade besides the pure orangish pink in any angle. The 1st pic is taken using white balance in the morning light. The second is under fluorescent and shows some purplish pink tone. The stone is mostly vvs but has a short needle inclusion in the bottom, which can be seen from the top.
Any commont or disagree is welcome.

 

[henrietta]

My pics seem to be lacking brightness and clearness.Maybe I should have some better ones.

 

[chrono]

Did you ever get your stone lab certified? How do you know what you received is indeed an untreated sapphire? Since it is an eBay stone, it would be something that should be checked out. There are plenty of fakes and incorrect disclosure, even by vendors who have very high ratings.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/29/2009 10:28:32 AM
Author:henrietta

Hi, it''s my first thread here. I''ve read some threads about pad here, and impressed by the recent one about what''s the ideal color of it. Many say it''s not likely possible to buy one on Ebay since many sellers like to call their stone ''pads'' while they are not. But my story is quite interesting and the opposite.
About one and a half years ago I came across an Ebay auction.The Thiland seller is with good reputation, specializes in sapphires. Most are from ceylon and some are from Africa, including heated and unheated among them. In one of his actions there''s one described as ''unheated 1.1ct orangish pink sapphire'',orgin is ceylon. The pic seemed to be a soft pink stone, very small and can not be enlarged due to network error.The auction ended up with not high price and I got it. Later when I received the stone, I was so surprised by its beauty which strongly reminds me of the sky in sunset. According to the description of padparadscha I searched, I later believed it to be a true one. What''s ironic is that in the seller''s store, there were at that time some ''padparadscha sapphire'' which are actually pretty hot pink heated sapphires from Africa, sold at much higher price. I''m so happy I got my one by opportunity and love it so much.

Its color looks so soft and vivid, uniform, of medium saturation or maybe a little lighter than that in some light.And in my view, it almost has equal pink and orange for pads,or maybe more pink? I can never see any yellowish, brownish or single orangish shade besides the pure orangish pink in any angle. The 1st pic is taken using white balance in the morning light. The second is under fluorescent and shows some purplish pink tone. The stone is mostly vvs but has a short needle inclusion in the bottom, which can be seen from the top.
Any commont or disagree is welcome.

I have to agree with Chrono. Unless you get a certificate/report from a reputable lab that INCLUDES the type of treatment (just saying "natural sapphire" is not enough), there is no way to tell it is a synthetic, or beryllium treated stone. Ebay is infamous for selling convincing synthetic and beryllium treated sapphires of padparadcha and other fine colors.

 

[henrietta]

You are quite right. Maybe I should just call it "a possibly pad"
I forgot to ask for the cert to prove it as unheated. The next time I did that for the blue sapphire(from the same seller) in the second pic which came with the certificate as unheated. All that judgement is just based on my feeling and guess.

.Maybe that's not pricise enough.But it's just so beautiful.
It seems to me that be-treated pads maybe as unatural as in this way:
http://www.palagems.com/gods_graves_sapphires.htm
And the true one is like the following:

After seeing so much pics by searching padparadscha in google. I seem to make a mistake to believe I can tell by eye whether they are sapphires,or be-treated ones. Maybe you think I'm mad

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 10/29/2009 11:42:14 AM
Author: henrietta
You are quite right. Maybe I should just call it ''a possibly pad''
I forgot to ask for the cert to prove it as unheated. The next time I did that for the blue sapphire(from the same seller) in the second pic which came with the certificate as unheated. All that judgement is just based on my feeling and guess.

.Maybe that''s not pricise enough.But it''s just so beautiful.
It seems to me that be-treated pads maybe as unatural as in this way:
http://www.palagems.com/gods_graves_sapphires.htm
And the true one is like the following:

After seeing so much pics by searching padparadscha in google. I seem to make a mistake to believe I can tell by eye whether they are sapphires,or be-treated ones. Maybe you think I''m mad

I think it simply isn''t possible to tell by eye. If Richard Wise can be fooled by a good fakey Link , anyone can be fooled.

 

[LD]

I''m very sorry to disagree but nobody, not even a seasoned gemstone collector, can tell by eye what treatments have been applied - especially heating!

You need to ask yourself (a) if your stone is indeed a Pad, why would the seller let it go cheaply? If you were selling a Pad, you wouldn''t do that (b) the colour of the stone in your first picture is not what I would necessarily call a pad as I can''t see pink and orange (c) please don''t be fooled when buying stones on Ebay. Unless it comes with a certificate from a reputable laboratory you should assume that it''s been treated.

There ARE some good genuine gemstones to be found on Ebay but I would hesitate to say that very few of those would be genuine Pads unless certified.

Look at it this way - if you could get a certificate for $50 and then ask $100s more on the asking price because of the certificate, wouldn''t you do that?

 

[chrono]

You said your second stone from the same vendor (blue sapphire) came with a cert. Which lab is it from? Is it a reputable lab?

 

[T L]

We must all remember that just because a certificate/report comes with a stone, it doesn''t mean it''s not be-treated, or has some other unscrupulous treatment. There is a dealer on ebay called gem-earth. Everyone and their cousin buys this dealer''s stones, and I''m talking about seasoned gem collectors as well.

Occassionally, she''ll have a lab report with a sapphire or some other stone that''s typically heavily treated. The report will say nothing about the treatment or it will say something like further evidence is required to determine "blah blah blah" (can''t remember the exact words). This means that the lab went as far as to tell you, yes, this is a natural stone mined out of the ground, but as for the treatment, it isn''t fully disclosed. This seller has routinely said "heat treated" for her padparadschas, but that can mean be-treated without fully disclosing it. Therefore, NO ONE should just accept ANY lab report/certificate. It should be a lab report from a reputable lab WITH FULL DISCLOSURE of the TRUE EXTENT of treatment.

BTW, I once caught gem-earth trying to pass off rare violet tourmaline when it was a spinel. She has some nice stuff, but I don''t particularly fully trust this seller, and I feel that way about so many ebay dealers. I''m still shell shocked that so many seasoned gem collectors buy from her though.

 

[LD]

Totally agree - that''s why I said reputable laboratory! I''m glad you clarified because I think people assume "any old lab" will be ok!

 

[T L]

Even reputable labs may leave out the pertinent treatment information. Some charge more for that type of information. For example, Gem-Earth (the ebay seller I mentioned above) often has Burapha lab reports (a reputable Thai based lab) that will indicate that the gem is natural, but give the "further evidence is needed . . . " statement about treatment. I need to find an example of this on ebay to show people what I'm talking about. The buyer is tricked into thinking this is a natural and untreated gem simply because it comes with a cert. Often ebay sellers try to pass certificates like this to give the buyer some psychological peace of mind, but it's not fully disclosing treatment either.

 

[chrono]

TL,
I do not know if this is true or untrue, but I''ve heard that sometimes the stone does not match the cert?

 

[T L]

Date: 10/29/2009 3:06:05 PM
Author: Chrono
TL,
I do not know if this is true or untrue, but I''ve heard that sometimes the stone does not match the cert?

Chrono,
That can also occur, but it is not the same thing as what I''m discussing above. However, glad you brought that up. Basically, just because you have a memo/report/certificate, etc. . . even from a reputable lab, make sure it covers all bases.

 

[chrono]

I know that when a lab isn''t able to determine the treatment using their usual equipment aka without breaking out the mega expensive equipment, they''ll put a disclaimer of sorts saying something to the effect that more testing is needed. Meaning that to get the full check on treatment, the vendor needs to pay for the full report or something like that.

 

[T L]

Date: 10/29/2009 3:17:22 PM
Author: Chrono
I know that when a lab isn''t able to determine the treatment using their usual equipment aka without breaking out the mega expensive equipment, they''ll put a disclaimer of sorts saying something to the effect that more testing is needed. Meaning that to get the full check on treatment, the vendor needs to pay for the full report or something like that.

Yes, and many ebay sellers all take advantage of that by giving the buyer psychological peace of mind by providing a cert. Most ebay buyers of colored gems are not familiar with all the ever increasing treatments out there, and when they see that cert, they think it must be a good stone. It''s very deceptive, and I see this thing all the time on ebay. I think ArtNouveau once obtained a very reputable lab cert for a paraiba that indicated it was fracture filled. Well the fact that it was fracture filled is one thing, but they charge extra to provide information on the type of filling (what kind of epoxy, oil, resin, and is it colored??). The same thing goes for be-treatment, it''s probably an extra cost, otherwise the lab cert can simply say "heated" since all be-treated stones are also heated.

 

[henrietta]

From the reasons you pointed out above, I think I should keep my belief for the stone to be a "true" pad first.
The cert seller offered me for the later purchase is from Tokyo Gem Laboratory(Thailand). I think if I asked , he would also give me one like that saying "unheated" for the pink one. But I''m not sure if it should be called a reputable one as you mentioned.

 

[henrietta]

Another side:

 

[henrietta]

To what LovingDiamonds replied(sorry I don't know how to quote):
The color of the stone varies due to the enviroment and the settings of DC.
This pc was taken earlier and looks pastel.Three needle-like inclusions can been seen from it

 

[henrietta]

This one seems a little more orangish, taken in sunlight. I think it's a medium saturationed stone, which has a pad-like color, maybe I should say that.But I should not make the conclusion that it's natural color without a cert form well-knowned lab.

Anyway, the seller himself never promised it's a pad, but just call it orangish pink sapphire...

 

[henrietta]

Anyway, thank you all very much for providing me so much knowledge.

 

[jstarfireb]

Just to clarify, that cert from TGL isn''t for your pad...right? It says the color is blue. I''m assuming it''s just an example of what you could have gotten.

From what little I''ve heard (i.e. from another thread in PS!), Tokyo Gem Labs is a reputable company. Up to you if you want to pursue a cert.

It''s a lovely stone and I''m glad you shared it with us!

 

[henrietta]

Date: 10/30/2009 12:34:28 PM
Author: jstarfireb
Just to clarify, that cert from TGL isn''t for your pad...right? It says the color is blue. I''m assuming it''s just an example of what you could have gotten.

From what little I''ve heard (i.e. from another thread in PS!), Tokyo Gem Labs is a reputable company. Up to you if you want to pursue a cert.

It''s a lovely stone and I''m glad you shared it with us!

Yes it''s for the blue one. Maybe my words were mistaken, I meant I should hold back my conclusion for it to be a true one. Although in my heart I guess it is.

If I asked a cert for the pink one, it would now be more convincable for people. But it doesn''t matter much, it''s still a lovely pad-like baby for me no matter what it is.

 

[chrono]

Pad-like is a description that is more accurate. It isn’t that we are convinced or we aren’t. Unless it has been verified by an qualified independent appraiser or lab certified, no one even knows if it really is a sapphire or some other stone. The only reason I question it is because it is an eBay stone. If you purchased from any of the more well known and trusted vendors, then we can safely say that it is indeed an untreated sapphire, be it orange pink or a padparadscha. Nevertheless, you adore this stone, you didn’t pay a fortune for it, and you will never give it up, and that’s all that matters.