A few diamond questions after my research...

[kris11]

So based on what I have read....if your looking to get a larger diamond on a budget it is okay to get a diamond between J-K, and down to SI1-SI2(maybe an I1?), ALWAYS go with GIA graded, but the utmost important thing to NOT skimp on is CUT...as it is the most important of the 4 C's. Very good seems like the lowest to go.

Also I have read if you go with a simple traditional setting that is 2-3mm wide with just the one diamond it will make the one diamond appear larger. I'm looking to get somewhere between .9ct and 1.3ct. I know that is a huge range....but I suppose it all comes down to price. My budget is around 5k~ tops.

I'm thinking about waiting until I find a good deal on a loose diamond. A 14k white gold simple setting seems to be about $150~, and I assume I could get a local jeweler to set the diamond for about $100~

I go to google and type in loose diamonds and a bunch of websites come up but I know they have to make a profit or they wouldn't be in business. I can only imagine brick and mortar stores really raising prices to stay in business. I have heard they dont even come with GIA certs anyways. It seems pretty expensive. I have been eyeing ebay finding diamonds selling for much less that are GIA sealed, or inscribed with cert #'s on the girdle's(sellers seem to have excellent feedback and everything) I know the common thought of most people would be buying a diamond on ebay is 'cheaping out' but I seem to think if done properly it is just merely saving money/spending money to get a bigger diamond.

I have seen many threads with white gold settings with J-K color diamonds and they seem awfully nice. I know my girlfriend would not care that there may be a little yellowing looking from the sides....

I am open to any suggestions/information that I may have been misled on. Sorry if this post is all over the place.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Go find some stones and post links, but its not fair to expect all your work to be done for you.
You have researched and an idea what you want.

 

[WinkHPD]

Yes if you want cut, forget about GIA. Their cut grade is so inclusive as to be quite ludicrous.

If you want cut, go with AGS papered diamonds.

Also, while it is conceivable, and a few people each year do it, buying a diamond on Ebay is a great way to get stuffed. Good luck to you, but it would never be my advice to a beginner who knows not what he is seeing and how to determine good deal or bad.

You have only begun to learn.

Wink

 

[Gypsy]

Do not buy from Ebay. Stick to J SI1 range. K Si1 with fluorescence in a modern round brilliant.

If you want a round brilliant:
GIA and AGS only. Not just GIA. AGS trades at a premium because they go the extra mile with performance grading.
Why the performance grading is a good thing:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. Over 2.5 is a no. No score under 2 is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[heididdl]

I have spent the last couple of hours looking for .90 - 1.05 ideal cut in your price range and I can't find anything at all. even going down to K and si2 ( wouldn't go to si2 ).....or you may have to go .85

 

[TC1987]

I used to scope ebay looking for deals. I don't think there are that many really well-cut diamonds being sold in there. And if they are the equivalent of what the PS crowd would pick, the prices are just as high as from PS vendors, and there are no buyback and upgrade options offered. And there are usually bad photos, sometimes the stones are deliberately left dirty and fingerprinted, and there are no idealscope, H&A viewer, or ASET images.

Overall, I think it's true that no matter what you are buying, ebay just doesn't offer the bargains now that it did, say, 7 or more years ago. Part of that problem is that ebay and PayPal combined are sucking 15% fees out of the TOTAL amount including SHIPPING. And that's getting up into the range of the 15% - 20% consignment fees charged by jewelers. And ebay and PayPal have become very biased in favor of buyers, even fraudulent ones, and it's much riskier for a seller to sell there now. So sellers up their prices accordingly, to compensate for essentially all buyer-protection and no seller-protection nowadays.

If you want a J/K diamond like you've seen on PS, then you don't want EGL or ebay J/K, or any lesser cut. The main reason that the PS J/K diamonds look great and so white is the cut. And you have to pay to get that kind of cut. It's a relatively recent emphasis, and most of the ebay J/K (and other) diamonds are going to be in the Good/Fair cut grades. Just average cut, not H&A and superior light performance. I've seen a lot of steep/deep diamonds on ebay, and ones with low crown angles and very large tables. They won't look like the PS stones. Search for "cheat sheet" for rounds, and run the HCA cut adviser on some of those ebay stones.

 

[kris11]

Go find some stones and post links, but its not fair to expect all your work to be done for you.
You have researched and an idea what you want.

Im sorry, I didnt mean to come off as I was expecting anyone to do "all my work" I was just looking for a bit of guidance I suppose.

Yes if you want cut, forget about GIA. Their cut grade is so inclusive as to be quite ludicrous.

If you want cut, go with AGS papered diamonds.

Also, while it is conceivable, and a few people each year do it, buying a diamond on Ebay is a great way to get stuffed. Good luck to you, but it would never be my advice to a beginner who knows not what he is seeing and how to determine good deal or bad.

You have only begun to learn.

Wink

Yeah I am still a newbie for sure, I have been lurking around the forums for quite some time now reading. Although some of it was confusing at first im starting to get a better grasp on what makes a good diamond. I still have so much to learn. I know it will pay off in the end though.

Do not buy from Ebay. Stick to J SI1 range. K Si1 with fluorescence in a modern round brilliant.

If you want a round brilliant:
GIA and AGS only. Not just GIA. AGS trades at a premium because they go the extra mile with performance grading.
Why the performance grading is a good thing:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. Over 2.5 is a no. No score under 2 is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

This is more of what I was looking for, this is great information and gives me more homework to do and expand my reading a bit futher. I really appreciate you taking the time out to write this up!

I have spent the last couple of hours looking for .90 - 1.05 ideal cut in your price range and I can't find anything at all. even going down to K and si2 ( wouldn't go to si2 ).....or you may have to go .85

I suppose .85 is not of the question. I really would to get her a larger stone. Though I need to ask her to go and get her hand measured for ring size. I don't want to buy a diamond that is way too big for her hand... I would want it to be proportional. She has pretty small hands. I'm guessing maybe a size 4? Is there a rule of thumb as far as ring size/diamond too big/small?

I used to scope ebay looking for deals. I don't think there are that many really well-cut diamonds being sold in there. And if they are the equivalent of what the PS crowd would pick, the prices are just as high as from PS vendors, and there are no buyback and upgrade options offered. And there are usually bad photos, sometimes the stones are deliberately left dirty and fingerprinted, and there are no idealscope, H&A viewer, or ASET images.

Overall, I think it's true that no matter what you are buying, ebay just doesn't offer the bargains now that it did, say, 7 or more years ago. Part of that problem is that ebay and PayPal combined are sucking 15% fees out of the TOTAL amount including SHIPPING. And that's getting up into the range of the 15% - 20% consignment fees charged by jewelers. And ebay and PayPal have become very biased in favor of buyers, even fraudulent ones, and it's much riskier for a seller to sell there now. So sellers up their prices accordingly, to compensate for essentially all buyer-protection and no seller-protection nowadays.

If you want a J/K diamond like you've seen on PS, then you don't want EGL or ebay J/K, or any lesser cut. The main reason that the PS J/K diamonds look great and so white is the cut. And you have to pay to get that kind of cut. It's a relatively recent emphasis, and most of the ebay J/K (and other) diamonds are going to be in the Good/Fair cut grades. Just average cut, not H&A and superior light performance. I've seen a lot of steep/deep diamonds on ebay, and ones with low crown angles and very large tables. They won't look like the PS stones. Search for "cheat sheet" for rounds, and run the HCA cut adviser on some of those ebay stones.

You make a good point on finding well cut diamonds on ebay. From what I have seen they are almost always good or fair GIA, rarely will see a Very good, and very rare to find a excellent cut. I actually stumbled upon one last night by surprise:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171265572033?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

You guys think thats a good deal? I'm not ready to buy now anyways just curious what you guys may think.

I appreciate your response though. I think you nailed it....if I am going to get a J-K I have to do it the right way to maximize brilliance and make the diamond appear as white as it can.

 

[WinkHPD]

It might be good, it might not. I generally do not like diamonds above a 41 degree pavilion angle, it is one of those steep/deep diamonds that I love to hate.

Being enclosed in plastic so that you can not observe it properly and return it if you do not like it is a HUGE negative to me. But then again, just go back to my original post, GIA is WAY TOO inclusive on their Excellent cut grades. When I try to enter this in DiamCalc it will not accept all of the parameters as stated on the Cert and it gives me an AGS 3 light performance grade.

Just saying...

Wink

 

[kris11]

I just entered in the cert info into the HCA and this is what came up:

Factor Grade
Light Return Very Good
Fire Good
Scintillation Good
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 3.5 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

I am going to browse james allen and WF and enter a couple more to get familiar with the HCA.

Thanks everyone.

 

[kris11]

So this would be a diamond that disperses light very very well.(Based on HCA and not idealscope- cant find it on james allen's website)

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.91-carat-k-color-si2-clarity-sku-281776

K/SI2(If okay with SI2 and the obvious inclusion right in the middle) right under 1ct at .91. Scores a .7 on the HCA test. I cant seem to locate the idealscope image on James allen's website like I do with whiteflash.com

Factor Grade
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 0.7 - Excellent
within TIC range

Edit- nevermind. I just saw it says K- "faint brown". This is alot to learn.