A diamond disagreement, what''s the solution?

[KimberlyH]

My grandparents have been married for 60 years, he just turned 86 she will be 87 in April. Neither of them is in very good health (he''s had multiple operations due to colon issues and has been close to death several times, she''s in the early stages of Alzheimer''s and her overall health is declining). My mom cares for them both (makes meals, cleans, drives them to appointments, etc.) but at some point they will need to go into a board and care facility when their needs become more pressing (they are pretty close to the point where this will have to happen).

He has made a few purchases lately including a hearing aid and a reclining chair so that he can sleep sitting up (he has breathing/lung issues). These purchases have spurred my grandmother into believing she is entitled to a 2 carat diamond. He essentially told her she''s too old to be spending that kind of money on a rock and that they need to hold onto what they have to be able to cover their bills in the future. They have a decent sum of money in the bank and recieve social security but the cost of care is high and who knows how long they''ll live and how much that care will cost.

He isn''t going to change his mind so it doesn''t really matter what anyone thinks, but I thought it was an interesting topic of conversation. Here are the answers my family gave:

My dad: it''s unreasonable especially considering her equivocating a diamond to a place to sleep and a hearing aid.
My mom: her dad would say no to anything she wanted to spend on so she should just go buy it.
My sister: agrees with my mom.
My husband: he should buy her a CZ as she wouldn''t know the difference and be just as pleased with that as she would a real ring.
Me: undecided. i think she needs to be reasonable but it''s their money and she should get to spend some as she sees fit.

What do you think?

 

[diamondfan]

I think it is not right on a certain level. They need to be thinking about their long term care. Trust me when I tell you that full time care for two people in a decent facility can bankrupt a family, so I agree that is frivolous. It is not like your grandad bought a boat or a painting. These were items he needed for his health and well being. A diamond does not quite fall into those categories, much as I hate to admit it. I think the cz might be a viable option, as opposed as I would be generally be to any type of jewelry deception...but at her age, it hardly seems to be that important. If they were rolling in money and all their care was taken care of for the long term I might feel differently...but it is just not a reasonable or necessary expense, regardless of your grandfather''s overall spending history or his generosity towards her in the past...it is just not the same scenario now.

 

[Regular Guy]

Hard to read into this as much as is needed, but...depending on the actual requirements...just over $5K can get you in...

 

[codex57]

Shoot grandma. Solves problem.

Edit: shoot mom and sister as well.

 

[Regular Guy]

No, don''t shoot.

Make that under $4600!

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:06:27 PM
Author: codex57
Shoot grandma. Solves problem.

You''re so bad....

Anyway, this is how I see it. They aren''t swimming in molah and those care facilities, especially the good ones are soooo expensive. I took care of my Nanny for the past 16 years, 8 of those she was in a nursing home, it was a very good one. I was her executor and POA and saw all the bills. All I can say is that it''s super expensive and now you are talking about 2 people grandma AND granpa so that''s a lot of cake. I think they shouldn''t buy the diamond, and save their money for their care etc.... JMHO

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:11:03 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 12/27/2006 6:06:27 PM
Author: codex57
Shoot grandma. Solves problem.

You''re so bad....

Anyway, this is how I see it. They aren''t swimming in molah and those care facilities, especially the good ones are soooo expensive. I took care of my Nanny for the past 16 years, 8 of those she was in a nursing home, it was a very good one. I was her executor and POA and saw all the bills. All I can say is that it''s super expensive and now you are talking about 2 people grandma AND granpa so that''s a lot of cake. I think they shouldn''t buy the diamond, and save their money for their care etc.... JMHO

well said.

how about a nice colored stone in the couple hundred dollar range.
she gets bling to make her happy and it makes sence.
a cz is fine but not telling her is wrong.
whats her favorite color?

 

[codex57]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:11:03 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 12/27/2006 6:06:27 PM

Author: codex57

Shoot grandma. Solves problem.

You're so bad....


Anyway, this is how I see it. They aren't swimming in molah and those care facilities, especially the good ones are soooo expensive. I took care of my Nanny for the past 16 years, 8 of those she was in a nursing home, it was a very good one. I was her executor and POA and saw all the bills. All I can say is that it's super expensive and now you are talking about 2 people grandma AND granpa so that's a lot of cake. I think they shouldn't buy the diamond, and save their money for their care etc.... JMHO

Yes, I was kidding about the whole shoot grandma thing (my retarded humor... sometimes I wonder how I got my wife to marry me), but you made my point exactly. Health care is EXPENSIVE nowadays. The good ones are nicer, but more expensive. I'd rather avoid putting my family through the incredible hassle of finding a care facility that takes a Medicare patient. As a third party taxpayer, i don't wanna pay for it just cuz grandma wanted a nice shiny rock.

Basically, grandma, mom, and the sister are being incredibly retarded in their attitudes. I was kidding about the shooting thing, but I wouldn't exactly shed too many tears if some crazy person did shoot them all. The ladies in that family may have a point of grandpa being unfair and saying no to anything grandma wants, but this is not the example to be trying that argument.

 

[widget]

Is wanting a big diamond something new? This could be the Alzheimer''s talking...

Frankly i''d be scared having someone that old and frail in charge of an expensive piece of jewelry. She might "hide" it too well, or future outside caretakers might be tempted...(remember Kaleigh''s Granny''s ring???)

Hopefully she''ll forget this idea pretty soon. If not: I HATE duplicity, but a CZ might not be such a bad idea in this case...or perhaps a colored gemstone...blue topaz, or something,,,,

Just some thoughts...
widget

 

[diamondfan]

I am usually very opposed to deceiving someone, but to me, in this case, it hardly seems to matter. It is not like he is proposing to her with a fakey...she is in her 80''s, and to me, at the end of the day, as long as she is happy that is the most critical thing. A colored stone might be great, or a white sapphire, but truly, she is elderly and not in the best of heatlh, if she thinks it is a diamond and is happy, given the overall situation, is there really any harm done in the long run?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:25:03 PM
Author: codex57

Date: 12/27/2006 6:11:03 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 12/27/2006 6:06:27 PM

Author: codex57

Shoot grandma. Solves problem.

You''re so bad....


Anyway, this is how I see it. They aren''t swimming in molah and those care facilities, especially the good ones are soooo expensive. I took care of my Nanny for the past 16 years, 8 of those she was in a nursing home, it was a very good one. I was her executor and POA and saw all the bills. All I can say is that it''s super expensive and now you are talking about 2 people grandma AND granpa so that''s a lot of cake. I think they shouldn''t buy the diamond, and save their money for their care etc.... JMHO

Yes, I was kidding about the whole shoot grandma thing (my retarded humor... sometimes I wonder how I got my wife to marry me), but you made my point exactly. Health care is EXPENSIVE nowadays. The good ones are nicer, but more expensive. I''d rather avoid putting my family through the incredible hassle of finding a care facility that takes a Medicare patient. As a third party taxpayer, i don''t wanna pay for it just cuz grandma wanted a nice shiny rock.

Basically, grandma, mom, and the sister are being incredibly retarded in their attitudes. I was kidding about the shooting thing, but I wouldn''t exactly shed too many tears if some crazy person did shoot them all.

I knew you were kidding!!!!!

 

[longtimelurker]

>>>>>

Is a diamond something she''s *always* wanted, or could this be a symptom of her state of mind? Alzheimers leads to some pretty strange/different behaviors. Then again, I know couples where when the more conservative/frugal spouse (husband) dies and the wife/widow now spends $$$$ on 2+ ct stones that they never were able to get from their spouses!

I second/third/fourth or whatever that LT care is EXTREMELY expensive. Plus, valuable jewelry + alzheimers + care facilty = not a good combo

 

[codex57]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:26:58 PM
Author: diamondfan
I am usually very opposed to deceiving someone, but to me, in this case, it hardly seems to matter. It is not like he is proposing to her with a fakey...she is in her 80''s, and to me, at the end of the day, as long as she is happy that is the most critical thing. A colored stone might be great, or a white sapphire, but truly, she is elderly and not in the best of heatlh, if she thinks it is a diamond and is happy, given the overall situation, is there really any harm done in the long run?

I don''t have a problem with tricking grandma. Solves that problem, especially since she''s prolly not too long with us. But mom and sis'' are giving out an attitude that''s very scary for that family (and possibly the rest of the world).

 

[Dee*Jay]

I'm thinking along the same lines as Widget and Dimondfan. I would hate to deceive my grandmother too, but it seems like a "harmless" way to get her what she wants and to still keep the $ for the impending care expenses. I would put it in a nice setting though.

 

[ladykemma]

no ring. no way. get her a white topaz (ross simon catalog)

those nice facilities are expensive - all money needs to go to that, or keeping them at home with 24 hour a day help.

 

[flopkins]

I wonder if gma''s request is partly bc of her Alzheimer''s and/or some kind of dementia? As people get older sometimes these kind of things happen... my grandmother got very fixated on strange things when she got old...

Also I would not recommend purchasing something so valuable if they are going to be in a care facility soon. Those places are notorious for stolen valuables; there are always ''visitors'' around and you just never know. I would not trust it to anyone... esp if grandma has AD and may forget the ring somewhere.

Better to get something you can easily replace, or a CZ. The cost of full time care is so expensive.

 

[Kaleigh]

And if you guys remember Nanny''s diamond eternity band was stolen from her in that nursing home!!!!

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:36:31 PM
Author: Kaleigh
And if you guys remember Nanny''s diamond eternity band was stolen from her in that nursing home!!!!

i rem and want too strangle the cold heartless person who took it.

 

[Beacon]

I think the grandfather is mostly correct. But telling her she is too "old" is not the way to go.

The majority of people on planet earth cannot afford a 2 ct diamond so they are not unusual in this respect. These grandparents cannot afford it right now in their lives as they have other needs to provide for.

This does lead to my thinking - hey, one better get what one wants while one can!

I don''t think she should get the stone. If she wants a ring, the other suggestions on the board are very good.

It''s really sad. Getting old is lousy but the alternative is worse.

 

[diamondfan]

Yeah, the family not supporting it stinks. An elderly woman who will likely be in long term care sooner rather than later has no business spending vital money on a diamond which will likely just get stolen anyway, we all remember poor Nanny and how awful it was for Kaleigh. White sapphire, white topaz, CZ, it really is not that big a deal!! Make her happy and save everyone a lot of grief...it a 2 carat diamond got stolen in the nursing home, what does insurance really do when it was in an unprotected place? I would not want to try to go after them for the money...or be out of pocket for care when the money was there...I mean, I would pay out of my pocket of course if there was no other money, but if they have money put aside it should be used for their care. End of discussion.

 

[KimberlyH]

Just to clarify, my mom and sister have not shared their opinions with my grandparents, nor do they intend to as it is truly none of our business how they spend. It was a discussion we had when my grandparents weren''t around, just because it was interesting to hear what everyone thinks. Their response has more to do with my grandfather wanting to be in control of all of their finances (he''s never been generous with her) than with her getting what she wants. And they both agree that her equivocating a ring to medical equipment and a chair is NUTS!!! But my grandmother is nuts so it''s par for the course.

They could afford to spend $5000 on a ring without causing themselves financial difficulty as long as they don''t live for another 10 years (but as we all know that''s unpredictable); I know this because I know how much they have saved and how much it would cost to live in a facility (my MIL has resided in a board and care for a year and we pay the bill).

As for her desire in relation to Alzheimer''s, she''s always loved diamonds (she has several) and wanted a bigger stone.

My answer, which was that they should compromise, applies to my relationship, not theirs because he won''t compromise so I don''t know what I think. We just all thought it was interesting conversation, no action to be taken. And my husband''s solution is quite clever but I would be so furious if he ever did that to me!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:28:43 PM
Author: codex57

Date: 12/27/2006 6:26:58 PM
Author: diamondfan
I am usually very opposed to deceiving someone, but to me, in this case, it hardly seems to matter. It is not like he is proposing to her with a fakey...she is in her 80''s, and to me, at the end of the day, as long as she is happy that is the most critical thing. A colored stone might be great, or a white sapphire, but truly, she is elderly and not in the best of heatlh, if she thinks it is a diamond and is happy, given the overall situation, is there really any harm done in the long run?

I don''t have a problem with tricking grandma. Solves that problem, especially since she''s prolly not too long with us. But mom and sis'' are giving out an attitude that''s very scary for that family (and possibly the rest of the world).

Codex,

I hear what you are saying but my sister and my mom are the least materialist women you could ever meet and their opinions are not at all strong nor have they been or will they be voiced. Their rings are no where near 2 carats (my sisters belonged to her MIL and is probably around .40, my mom has worn the same .5 ring since the day she was married) and neither would ever expect their hubands, my dad and BIL, to do what my gram is requesting, but they have good relationships, my grandfather is a control freak who does, and always has done, what he wants with little regard to my grandmother.

 

[Beacon]

She also may have no idea what a 2 carat diamond costs and that is why she thinks she wants one. She may be pricing it circa 1955 in her mind.

If the grandfather always called the shots with the money, it''s a little late in the game to try and change the pattern sorry to say.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 12/27/2006 6:11:03 PM
Author: Kaleigh

Date: 12/27/2006 6:06:27 PM
Author: codex57
Shoot grandma. Solves problem.

You''re so bad....

Anyway, this is how I see it. They aren''t swimming in molah and those care facilities, especially the good ones are soooo expensive. I took care of my Nanny for the past 16 years, 8 of those she was in a nursing home, it was a very good one. I was her executor and POA and saw all the bills. All I can say is that it''s super expensive and now you are talking about 2 people grandma AND granpa so that''s a lot of cake. I think they shouldn''t buy the diamond, and save their money for their care etc.... JMHO

I have to agree. Heck, those places can bankrupt ONE person in the blink of any eye....

 

[KimberlyH]

There''s no need to apologize for sharing your opinions! She''s not getting the diamond and my mom would never assist her if she tried to (she refuses to get involved, even to say what she thinks about it). I have no feelings about it one way or another, I just think it''s an interesting dilemma and since this is a diamond board I thought it would make for interesting discussion, which it has (except of course to say that my sister and mom should be shot, that''s a bit harsh as they both happen to be quite amazing ladies).

 

[Minny]

This is a tough one!! I think my opinion is that perhaps some kind of compromise should be made -- like grandma gets to buy a less expensive ring or something, as others have mentioned......2 carats is way more than many people can comfortably afford, especially when they expect to have big expenses coming up in the near future.

And Kimberly, if somebody "joked" about shooting my mom, grandma, and sister, I don''t think I would find it very funny either.

 

[Ellen]

Personally, I''d adopt the wait and see attitude, gramma might just forget about it. But, if she doesn''t, I would do the compromise, but make it very inexpensive if it is to go in the home with her. Unfortunately, some of those workers will steal anything, even candy.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 12/27/2006 7:02:07 PM
Author: diamondfan
Yeah, the family not supporting it stinks. An elderly woman who will likely be in long term care sooner rather than later has no business spending vital money on a diamond which will likely just get stolen anyway, we all remember poor Nanny and how awful it was for Kaleigh. White sapphire, white topaz, CZ, it really is not that big a deal!! Make her happy and save everyone a lot of grief...it a 2 carat diamond got stolen in the nursing home, what does insurance really do when it was in an unprotected place? I would not want to try to go after them for the money...or be out of pocket for care when the money was there...I mean, I would pay out of my pocket of course if there was no other money, but if they have money put aside it should be used for their care. End of discussion.

Yeah, what she said! (NO WAY would I think it appropriate for an 87 year old in the early Alzheimer''s stages to get a 2 ct. diamond even if they were rolling in money. Too many risks involved.)

 

[codex57]

Date: 12/27/2006 7:20:47 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Codex,


I hear what you are saying but my sister and my mom are the least materialist women you could ever meet and their opinions are not at all strong nor have they been or will they be voiced. Their rings are no where near 2 carats (my sisters belonged to her MIL and is probably around .40, my mom has worn the same .5 ring since the day she was married) and neither would ever expect their hubands, my dad and BIL, to do what my gram is requesting, but they have good relationships, my grandfather is a control freak who does, and always has done, what he wants with little regard to my grandmother.

I hear ya. I was gonna put in something about that in my last comment, but realized the argument just went in a circle after running it through my mind.

I'm sure your mom and sis are great, non-materialistic people. I'm sure your grandpa is a control freak. In the end, it doesn't change my opinion.

But, my grandpa's got Alzheimer's and is in a nursing home. I'm in the estate planning field. Like Ellen said, those nursing homes can bankrupt you in the blink of an eye. I know your relatives feel like your grandma should treat herself once before she passes away, but still. 2 carats is a lot. And there are really big differences btw nursing homes. If your grandma is lucky enough to only need a few months in a nursing home, that stone could mean the difference btw her being very comfortable and well taken care of or the complete opposite.

Like I said earlier, this was a bad example to "put up a stand" so to speak against your grandpa and his ultra-controlling ways. Too many good reasons not to get the ring in this case. The money could just be better spent elsewhere and, like the other people said, a 2 carat rock with an Alzheimer patient is not a good combo.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 12/27/2006 8:25:49 PM
Author: codex57

Date: 12/27/2006 7:20:47 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Codex,


I hear what you are saying but my sister and my mom are the least materialist women you could ever meet and their opinions are not at all strong nor have they been or will they be voiced. Their rings are no where near 2 carats (my sisters belonged to her MIL and is probably around .40, my mom has worn the same .5 ring since the day she was married) and neither would ever expect their hubands, my dad and BIL, to do what my gram is requesting, but they have good relationships, my grandfather is a control freak who does, and always has done, what he wants with little regard to my grandmother.

I hear ya. I was gonna put in something about that in my last comment, but realized the argument just went in a circle after running it through my mind.

I'm sure your mom and sis are great, non-materialistic people. I'm sure your grandpa is a control freak. In the end, it doesn't change my opinion.

But, my grandpa's got Alzheimer's and is in a nursing home. I'm in the estate planning field. Like Ellen said, those nursing homes can bankrupt you in the blink of an eye. I know your relatives feel like your grandma should treat herself once before she passes away, but still. 2 carats is a lot. And there are really big differences btw nursing homes. If your grandma is lucky enough to only need a few months in a nursing home, that stone could mean the difference btw her being very comfortable and well taken care of or the complete opposite.

Like I said earlier, this was a bad example to 'put up a stand' so to speak against your grandpa and his ultra-controlling ways. Too many good reasons not to get the ring in this case. The money could just be better spent elsewhere and, like the other people said, a 2 carat rock with an Alzheimer patient is not a good combo.

I and my husband are responsible for his mother who is 86 has late stage Alzheimer's and lives in a board and care, we take care of her bills, etc. so I know the costs associated with care facilities as well as the disease.

There was no attempt to change your opinion, you are entitled to it, and I presented the scenario for just that reason; like I said, I don't have an opinion and it really doesn't matter at the end of the day because she's not getting the ring, I just thought it was an interesting circumstance.

I think we just got a bit off track when you stated that you wouldn't shed tears if people like them were shot (or something to that effect). My mom has spent the last 8 years caring for her parents (cooking, cleaning, changing diapers, multiple moves) you name it she does it. My very generous father has given my mom the ability to stay home because of the care they require (and expect her to provide while excusing her siblings from lifting a finger) and while everyone else is screaming for them to be moved into a home my parents won't do it because until it's absolutely necessary because of the obligation they feel to provide them with the life they choose in their old age. They get nothing for all she does, no compensation, no reward in their will, it's all out of the kindness of their hearts.

Anyways, back to the conversation at hand...