"A Cut Above" ideal scope images - opinions?

[2Bmarried]

Whiteflash - "A Cut Above" - .755

 

[2Bmarried]

Whiteflash - "A Cut Above" - .720

 

[Stephan]

/idealbb/files/malalatete.gif

That's a very difficult choice!​

The first one will look bigger.​

The idealscope looks better too.​

And it's cheaper!!!

But the first one only scores 2.1-VG on the HCA.​

The second one scores 1.5-EX (TIC).​

I don't know which one to choose.​

Sorry!!!

 

[2Bmarried]

Ok - here's the latest Idealscope image just uploaded to Whiteflash today. This is not "A Cut Above", but one from their expert selection. Call me crazy, but I think it looks better than the other two. I think it's a great deal at 2,800 dollars, so I might be having it sent to David Atlas on Monday, if Brian at Whiteflash can tell me the inclusions aren't noticeable. I just don't know how much difference I can really expect to see with the "A Cut Above" diamonds. If the Idealscope is a great tool for checking the cut & symmetry, etc., then how far off can I be from having a winner?! I guess I'll wait & see what Brian & David say, but I think this is the one I'll send to David.

AGS .732 from the Expert Selection at Whiteflash

By the way, does anyone think I might actually "see" a difference since this diamond, per the AGS report, is NOT an Ideal cut??

Thanks!

 

[Mara]

I think I just posted that 3rd one for someone on here today too...I saw one that was a STELLAR AGS1 G SI or something...and a sweet deal. Great IS image. That may be it? For a non-ideal, that IS looks very nice. Very very nice. I would choose that over the 2nd stone.




However....I do have to chime in and say that I just got my fiance's ACA this week, it's a small .38c E VS and man it is AMAZING. Nothing short of spectacular. Honestly. I have seen 'ideal' stones before in a jewelry store and they didn't look 1/2 as good as this.




So I'm a little biased feeling now. What is the price difference between #1 (with tweaked girdles btw, responsible for almost no light leakage) and #3 non-ideal? If it is significant...it may be worth it...but I don't know!!! I have ACA fever right now...hehehe.

 

[2Bmarried]

It's $3,068 for #1, with HCA of 2.1 - VG/VG/VG/VG (ACA)
It's $2,800 for #3, with HCA of 1.0 - EX/EX/EX/VG (Non-Ideal)

Both scopes look great. I'm just wondering about #1 because it looks just a tiny but "fuzzy", so I don't know if that is as good a representation of the diamond as the image is for #3.

And what do you mean by the girdles being tweaked? I've been trying to search on what that is, but I'm still looking! I assume that is what was mentioned in another thread as "girdle cheating"?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

You can find out about the tweaked girdle on the 1st stone by reading the GIA article posted today on the forum, or search for cheated girdle.

It is fuzzy because of a good trick and this compensates for the higher HCA.

All 3 are in the top 0.05% of diamonds for cut quality.

 

[2Bmarried]

Garry,

I actually thought (as a neophyte, of course) that it was just an out-of-focus digital picture (compared to the other 2 and others I have seen), judging by the lack of crispness in the arrows. But, it sounds like it is just a trick done by talented cutters to achieve a desired result? Does that make it any less of a value or something I might necessarily want to avoid? It seems like as long as it looks great, scopes great & performs well....what does it really matter??

 

[Stephan]

I would go for the 3rd one: the non ACA AGS-0.

1) best HCA score
2) best price
3) very nice idealscope picture

I think this diamond is an ideal cut too.
I don't know why you say it's not an ideal cut.
Perhaps you can ask to look at a picture of the hearts?

 

[2Bmarried]

By non-ideal, I mean that it is not an AGS IDEAL stone, as stated on the certification from AGS. The polish & symmety are both stated as excellent on the cert, not ideal. However, the first two are AGS Ideal stones - cut, polish, & symmetry as stated on their respective certs.

 

[valeria101]

Ideal or not...

Very few people can tell any difference between Ex and Id symmetry and polish (and all those who can are grading the diamonds!) at all, and no-one can discern those without proper grading conditons and tools. If you particularly like the word 'Ideal" on a cert... that's a completely different story. All in all, there should be very little difference between these stones, to the point that I would call this entire exercise "hair splitting". For what this is worse, the first stone should have the best white light return, the second somewhat better contrast for the same brightness and the thirs look a tad less bright than either. The difference between #2 and #3 is borderline at best.

About the HCA scores... I feel I should note that the HCA is a less precise tool than the IScope: the numbers taken into account by HCA do not describe completely (nor are ment to) the optical properties of a stone. The IScope - as any direct analysis tool - describes the overall effect of all cut parameters. So, if the Scope picture looks better for a lower HCA, it just means that the difference between the stones considered is not captured by the HCA score (for example any such difference due to minor facet cutting will no, by HCA's design). In consequence, about these stones, the evaluation of the Scope pictures should not be judged together with the HCA scores: these ar different levels of precision altogether.

And the winner is? #1 - by a speck !

 

[Chrisk327]

Personally I like the scope on #1 the best. I am not an expert by any means. I just like the "lack of leakage"

As far as polish goes, you won't be able to tell any difference. even under 10X between good and excellent or good and ideal. I couldn't and GOG told me that.

Chris

 

[strmrdr]

I like 3.
It looks like an aca that wouldnt take an ideal polish.
You wont notice the difference.
The cut is tight the IS image is great and Brian recomends it.
Its my understanding that he hand selects all the expert selection diamonds.
And its cheaper.
What I would do is call brian and have him pull all 3 diamonds and eyeball them while talking to you on the phone.

There may be something that the pictures and numbers dont show that make one better than the others and Brian can help you find that out.

 

[2Bmarried]

That's basically what it's boiling down to. I'll most likely weigh the choice between the three by letting Brian decide. I've spoken with David Atlas & I'll be sending the "choice" one to David along with one that I like from a local retailer.

I appreciate everybody's input and am completely receptive to anybody's ideas and/or opinions.

Thanks!

 

[daboyzmomi]

I purchased a WhiteFlash Expert Selection stone back in November 2B, and I am VERY happy I did. It is so beautiful, and the price was exceptional. I get nothing but compliments on it daily. Honestly, when I took it to be independently appraised the guy was surprised it wasn't an AGS OOO. I would highly recommend taking Whiteflashes expert advise. Good luck and congrats on a lovely stone!

 

[sluke]

2Bmarried,

You can't go wrong with purchasing one of WhiteFlash expert collection diamonds. We got one last December and it is absolutely gorgeous. I took it to an appraiser/gemologist and he said it is one of the best he seen. He also added that he seen a lot of Whiteflash diamonds and they are great stones at great prices. Here is the idealscope on my diamond.

 

[2Bmarried]

I just got back from the local jeweler. I took this picture through the standard idealscope (and backlight from Garry's kit) with my digital camera - Fuji Finepix A303. I'm sure it would have been better if I didn't do it by hand, but I don't have a tripod to use. Regardless, here it is for you to compare.

 

[valeria101]

This IS your picture made to look it's worst - and it still shows a heck' of a diamond!

Not sure symmetry and the resulting "definition" of those arrows is going to be as evident as in the Wf stone, but this is no ordinary stone in terms of light return.

I have yet to find one buyer ready to toss dice

to choose among diamonds, but this is getting close. Can't wait to see how things turn out here!

 

[Mara]

Hmm I don't like the local jeweler one as much as the others. It's off center...could be the picture or could be the stone's symmetry. What does the cert report say on symm.




If you are choosing between something like that local one...and the expert selection or ACA...I would choose the expert selection or ACA personally. Is the local one the same price?




One thing to consider on polish/symm....most experts say you can't see a difference between something like VG and EX/ID but I think that many would agree there may be a visual diff. between GD and EX/ID. Just something to think about.




Good luck.

Nice options but I am not sold on that local one as much as the others. I know how hard it is to capture good IS images so maybe it's just the picture. But what are the other specs on it?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Mara there is not a lot of common sense in the way symmetry is noted on a certificate.

This near H&A’s had GIA good symmetry.

There is a really technical article about this on Cutstudy.com that was reffered to in the thread about GIA’s inadequate attempt to claim they discovered minor facet azimuth variations.

It awas fisrt publicly noted in 1999 by Peter yantzer of the AGS lab and has been discussed for years on these forums with Bruce Harding and Paul from Antwerp explaining the actual cutting practices.

 

[Mara]

Interesting Garry....so in reality would the polish and symm of a 'good' not really knock a stone like that expert #3 out of the running IF the H&A images were somewhat crisp and the IS image looked like this one?




2bm...you may want to have WF get you the H&A images of that expert selection stone. If it looks almost H&A then that will tell you more.

 

[2Bmarried]

Specs on the diamond from the local store:

AGS Ideal (polish, symmetry, proportions)

SI1 (and it is an eye-clean SI1, regardless of what lighting I tried)
E
.721 cts.
Fluorescense: Inert
5.74 x 5.77 x 3.54 mm
Table: 56%
Crown Angle: 34.2
Crown Height: 14.8%
Pavilion Angle: 40.9
Pavilion Height: 43.1%
Depth: 61.5%
Girdle: Faceted 1.0 - 1.7%
Culet: Pointed

Price: $2,880

 

[2Bmarried]

I will let you all know what Brian tells me tomorrow as well as which one David Atlas likes the most on Tuesday. (I wish I could drive out to meet David & check them out with him, but it's about 7 hours from here. Oh well!) I emailed David the ideal scope images of all 4 to see if he has any gut reaction to any of them or can comment on the possible "cheated girdle". We shall see!

 

[2Bmarried]

I spoke with Brian @ Whiteflash today. We had a nice converstaion and he enlightened me as to the differences I might see between the 3 stones I was looking at. The classic ACA would be slightly different from the new-line ACA as well as slightly different from the expert selection. He explained the different characteristics I might be able to make out from one diamond to another, though they were all great performers. He didn't really want to push me one way or another, though he did tell me that I would be getting a great stone @ $2,800 in the expert selection, when compared with another stone anywhere else in the same price range. If it performs well (and I trust Brian's judgment), even though it might not have the "perfect" visual symmetry when measured with tools, I really don't care. (Many of you know that my biggest concern is naked-eye visbile inclusions anyway!)

I told him that I'm not one that feels the need to get something just because of its namesake or its brand name. I know the ACA diamonds are great diamonds, but it's not like my fiancee will be carrying an ideal-scope or a hearts and arrows viewer with her every day to glance at her diamond! True visual inspection & affirmation is what I was really after, and Brian was certainly objective and unbiased. I appreciate that. It turned out I would be selecting a winner regardless of which one I chose.

I appreciate everybody's input on this, as always! The replies that I received from the "expert selection" owners made me feel all the more confident in my decision. The diamond as well as the one from my local jeweler will be in David Atlas' hands tomorrow. He will advise me on what he sees & I'll go from there!

 

[pqcollectibles]

I have both Classic and New Line ACA's. To choose between the 2 really comes down to personal taste and performance preference. Sounds like you had a win/win/win situation with no real way to loose!

 

[Patty]

What is the difference between New Line and Classic ACAs?

 

[Mara]

Classic are more along the lines of something like a GOG H&A or a SuperbCert H&A with some light leakage along the girdle (very small). The second stone is probably a classic. The New Line have tweaked girdles, more like an EightStar, which eliminates probably something like 99% of light leakage. The first stone is probably a New Line.




They look a little different visually from what I have heard...it may be a preference thing. Greg's ACA is tweaked New Line and it's a popper!

 

[pqcollectibles]

My earrings are Classic and my new ring is (and pendant was) New Line.

Classic ACA's give off smaller, more frequent flashes of light and color. I remember Rich Sherwood using the comment of "subtle and romantic" once when talking about a diamond in a post. That's a good description of Classic. My earrings shimmer in the smallest amount of light. Hubby was very "lobe" concious for a while after I got the ACA earrings. He constantly told me that my earrings sparkled far more than anyone else's that he saw.

New Line is bigger, bolder flashes of light and color. My pendant was not tweaked, and my ring is a tweaked facet New Line. As far as performance goes, both New Line diamonds are very similar. The tweaked facet diamond has a "depth" and character to it. Brian said the new diamond would have more "contrast". Looking straight down thru the crown, it's like I can see the rise and the fall of the facets cuts. When I hold my hand out in front of me, the arrows are very noticible.

Definitely different types of performance to appeal to different tastes with the Classic and the New Line choices. Equally beautiful and equally unique!

 

[Patty]

Thanks Mara and pq.

But, but, but...pq, you say your pendant was New Line but NOT tweaked? I thought that New Line meant tweaked?

This is starting to make more sense to me here. I've never understood what an 8* was. And I've seen things about "tweaked" girdles but I've never understood what that was either.

Keep 'splain' please.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Sometimes a pic is worth a thousand words. Here's the IS of my new diamond, Patty. No white. New Line ACA's without tweaked facets can have a little bit of white at the edges. The differing levels of pinks and reds in this IS are what Brian referred to as "contrast". Thanks much to ALJDewey for explaining that one to me!