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Whiteflash custom cut

DiamondsAndDior

Rough_Rock
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After discovering PS, I’ve now become insanely nitpicky and have spent weeks looking at stones. Originally, I decided against custom cutting because I dislike the uncertainty of committing to purchase something that I can’t see first, especially something of such high value. However, I’m now open to reconsidering because custom cutting may be the best way to get exactly what I want. Which leads to my question...

Has anyone had experience getting a custom cut ACA from Whiteflash that they could share? I couldn’t find anything when I did a search.
 
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kmoro

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After discovering PS, I’ve now become insanely nitpicky and have spent weeks looking at stones. Originally, I decided against custom cutting because I dislike the uncertainty of committing to purchase something that I can’t see first, especially something of such high value. However, I’m now open to reconsidering because custom cutting may be the best way to get exactly what I want. Which leads to my question...

Has anyone had experience getting a custom cut ACA from Whiteflash that they could share? I couldn’t find anything when I did a search.

I’m in the process of getting a custom cut ACA. I’m not sure that I’m in love with the process. It’s been nerve-wracking waiting for the spec’s ...the table is larger than I would have preferred ... the video is beautiful but not as flashy as most others I’ve seen ... the ASET has some very slight green under the table (although I received a really long explanation of why it doesn’t matter - which I accept because I’m not an expert) ... I’m assured it’s an ACA. I don’t know. I think it’s a beautiful diamond, I have not been able to find a similar one on any other site, but I kind of wish I just took a refund and tried to find one (use a concierge maybe) that was already cut. Not to mention the wait time. The site says 4-5 weeks but I’m at one day short of 7 weeks now ... well I guess it took just over five weeks to get it from the lab and now around two weeks for pictures and to have it mounted ... still don’t know when it will ship. Also, I have no refund option - still eligible for trade-up policy.

Does that help? lol
 

DiamondsAndDior

Rough_Rock
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Wow, thank you so much kmoro! This really helps. The process sounds frustrating...and I don’t think I would enjoy going through it. The no return policy is really a bummer, because it seems like there are just so many unknowns with custom cutting. Maybe I should just be patient and keep searching for my perfect stone. What made you decide to custom cut initially?
 

Wewechew

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@kmoro - and your experience is why I don't think I would do a custom cut unless I HAD to (ie had been looking for six months or more and couldn't find anything). PSers are so picky about specific proportions with their diamonds that custom cutting has too many unknowns (for me).
 

kmoro

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Wow, thank you so much kmoro! This really helps. The process sounds frustrating...and I don’t think I would enjoy going through it. The no return policy is really a bummer, because it seems like there are just so many unknowns with custom cutting. Maybe I should just be patient and keep searching for my perfect stone. What made you decide to custom cut initially?

I just couldn’t find what I was looking for .... I asked to be put on a notification list ... WF checked with cutters, nothing was in the works, so they offered the custom cut. I did tell them my preferred spec’s but I guess there’s little choice in the end, as long as it meets ACA standards. Coming in at the low end of the promised carat range, I really paid a lot too - but I feel I can’t complain about that because I agreed. I guess if you asked me if I regret it, my answer would be yes.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
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After discovering PS, I’ve now become insanely nitpicky and have spent weeks looking at stones. Originally, I decided against custom cutting because I dislike the uncertainty of committing to purchase something that I can’t see first, especially something of such high value. However, I’m now open to reconsidering because custom cutting may be the best way to get exactly what I want. Which leads to my question...

Has anyone had experience getting a custom cut ACA from Whiteflash that they could share? I couldn’t find anything when I did a search.

Have you talked to WF and asked them what they have coming in the near future?
 

DiamondsAndDior

Rough_Rock
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Well I think I have my decision - that was quick! :) I love PS, you all are so so helpful. I’ll just be patient until the right stone comes along. I’ll also ask WF what they have coming in the near future - thanks for the suggestion!
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I just couldn’t find what I was looking for .... I asked to be put on a notification list ... WF checked with cutters, nothing was in the works, so they offered the custom cut. I did tell them my preferred spec’s but I guess there’s little choice in the end, as long as it meets ACA standards. Coming in at the low end of the promised carat range, I really paid a lot too - but I feel I can’t complain about that because I agreed. I guess if you asked me if I regret it, my answer would be yes.
Lack of certainty of proportions specifics is the reason I chose not to move forward after my own investigations into having a stone custom cut.

Do you feel you paid a fair price for an ACA of the carat/colour/clarity you will end up with?

Fortunately WF’s upgrade policy is very generous, should you find a stone you prefer in inventory at some point in future.
 
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lovedogs

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I had a great experience with custom cutting from HP diamonds. @DiamondsAndDior have you reached out to them? I found the process painless and the wait was somewhat long but wasn't any longer than they originally estimated.
 

sledge

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I think you are going to get some skewed results here. Why? Because some items are guaranteed and others are ranges. Customer A may be ecstatic they got maximum size and/or a color & clarity bump from what they agreed on. Unfortunately customer B may be unsatisfied because the proportions push the edges of the ACA envelope, they got the minimum of the size range and the exact minimum color/clarity guaranteed.

Essentially, people are happy when they get more than what they originally expected but as an equal & opposite reaction people become disappointed if they hit the low end of it.

Not long ago, @ice empress bought a 3 carat honker using the WF custom cut process and may be able to share her experience as well. As I recall, she was happy with it overall.

Here's how I understand their process to work:

1. Exact proportions are not guaranteed outside those defined as ACA criteria.

https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

Capture.PNG

2. Exact size is not guaranteed but rather a reasonable range. I believe it's within a 0.10 carat. For example 2.20 to 2.29 carats.

3. Color and clarity is guaranteed as MINIMUMS. So if you request a G VS2, you will get that as a minimum; however, on the off chance the secured rough yields a F VS1 then you get the additional color and clarity bumps for free. If it comes back as an H SI1, you have the option to reject or buy at a lower negotiated price.

4. Depending on the size, color & clarity you seek then the process may be more difficult or more easy.
 

Dancing Fire

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@kmoro - and your experience is why I don't think I would do a custom cut unless I HAD to (ie had been looking for six months or more and couldn't find anything). PSers are so picky about specific proportions with their diamonds that custom cutting has too many unknowns (for me).
Yup, wish I can order a custom cut with all my fav. proportions. I guess is not possible?
 

Wewechew

Ideal_Rock
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Yup, wish I can order a custom cut with all my fav. proportions. I guess is not possible?
I know :(2 I wonder if it is possible, but the diamond may end up smaller than it would otherwise and therefore they won’t guarantee proportions?
 

kmoro

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I think you are going to get some skewed results here. Why? Because some items are guaranteed and others are ranges. Customer A may be ecstatic they got maximum size and/or a color & clarity bump from what they agreed on. Unfortunately customer B may be unsatisfied because the proportions push the edges of the ACA envelope, they got the minimum of the size range and the exact minimum color/clarity guaranteed.

Essentially, people are happy when they get more than what they originally expected but as an equal & opposite reaction people become disappointed if they hit the low end of it.

Not long ago, @ice empress bought a 3 carat honker using the WF custom cut process and may be able to share her experience as well. As I recall, she was happy with it overall.

Here's how I understand their process to work:

1. Exact proportions are not guaranteed outside those defined as ACA criteria.

https://www.whiteflash.com/a-cut-above-diamonds-specifications-and-qualifications/

Capture.PNG

2. Exact size is not guaranteed but rather a reasonable range. I believe it's within a 0.10 carat. For example 2.20 to 2.29 carats.

3. Color and clarity is guaranteed as MINIMUMS. So if you request a G VS2, you will get that as a minimum; however, on the off chance the secured rough yields a F VS1 then you get the additional color and clarity bumps for free. If it comes back as an H SI1, you have the option to reject or buy at a lower negotiated price.

4. Depending on the size, color & clarity you seek then the process may be more difficult or more easy.

That was and is all understood ... by me, anyway.

Just because I have expressed my thoughts on the process doesn’t mean that I didn’t understand or accept responsibility for the agreement. I am not complaining, per se - but I have negative feelings about the process to which I freely agreed and so have expressed them. I hope I didn’t indicate somewhere that I didn’t understand my contract.

Some people deal with uncertainty better than others, and I have discovered that I’m not good at it. Especially when combined with waiting a long time. Two things I’m really bad at: Uncertainty and waiting, lol. I would not do it again.

WF has been nothing but awesome! I am not disappointed with them at all!

Lack of certainty of proportions specifics is the reason I chose not to move forward after my own investigations into having a stone custom cut.

Do you feel you paid a fair price for an ACA of the carat/colour/clarity you will end up with?

Fortunately WF’s upgrade policy is very (, should you find a stone you prefer in inventory at some point in future.

I think it was a fair price - nothing about this was unfair. I’m just saying that I have not enjoyed the experience that I fully agreed to enter.

I do have the awesome vendor and up-grade policy, so nothing is lost.

The thing is, I have not seen this diamond in person yet. I am still hoping that I fall in love with it. If I do, my tune will change, right? Someone asked about experience with the custom cut, so these are just my feelings so far.

I hope everyone understands that I am not complaining about WF at all ... everything was clearly outlined from the start ... this is just my experience and my feelings about it, and I think it’s ok for me to say that I wish I had taken a different route. That’s all on me.

In fact, this might be a good time to reiterate that I think WF is awesome!
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I will be excited to hear about all the specs including color and clarity. Fingers crossed that you love this new stone - after all, it was cut just for you!!
 

kmoro

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I will be excited to hear about all the specs including color and clarity. Fingers crossed that you love this new stone - after all, it was cut just for you!!


Thanks! I’ve been sitting here thinking ... “wait a minute ... I’m still pretty darn excited!!!!”

Got all wrapped up in this thread because I really have not been having fun, but that doesn’t mean I’m not super excited!!!!

I mean, an ACA is still an ACA!!!! Stupid 56.4 table, lol, oh no it’s the end of the world, lol :lol-2:

Yay!!!

ETA: Hmmmm. Well, I guess it wouldn’t hurt to share ... here’s the link:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4096805.htm
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thanks! I’ve been sitting here thinking ... “wait a minute ... I’m still pretty darn excited!!!!”

Got all wrapped up in this thread because I really have not been having fun, but that doesn’t mean I’m not super excited!!!!

I mean, an ACA is still an ACA!!!! Stupid 56.4 table, lol, oh no it’s the end of the world, lol :lol-2:

Yay!!!

ETA: Hmmmm. Well, I guess it wouldn’t hurt to share ... here’s the link:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4096805.htm

Girl I am going to wash your mouth out with soap!! That looks to be a freakin' gorgeous diamond! D VVS? What? Great specs - you wouldn't notice the difference if it was a 57 table! Go on - pinch yourself to make sure it is real and you are breathing!

Seriously, thanks for sharing! I'm guessing you are going to love that diamond - not much more to be wanted from one! Wow - and .50 larger than the last? And you had to wait a while for them to source a D VVS crystal to cut from - well, yes, they don't come along every day! Can't wait to see it set and on your finger. . .and I was feeling badly for you. . .now go dream about this gorgeous stone!!
 
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DiamondsAndDior

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Lovedogs - I have considered HPD, but their custom cutting process seems to be the same as WF, so I feel like I’d still have the same risk of too many unknowns. I’m the type of person that gets stressed out easily, so I think custom cutting just may not be for me.
 

DiamondsAndDior

Rough_Rock
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Kmoro - I can’t wait for you to get your stone! Honestly, it looks AMAZING. I have a feeling that the uncertainty you went through will all be worth it in the end :)
 

Dancing Fire

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kmoro

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Girl I am going to wash your mouth out with soap!! That looks to be a freakin' gorgeous diamond! D VVS? What? Great specs - you wouldn't notice the difference if it was a 57 table! Go on - pinch yourself to make sure it is real and you are breathing!

Seriously, thanks for sharing! I'm guessing you are going to love that diamond - not much more to be wanted from one! Wow - and .50 larger than the last? And you had to wait a while for them to source a D VVS crystal to cut from - well, yes, they don't come along every day! Can't wait to see it set and on your finger. . .and I was feeling badly for you. . .now go dream about this gorgeous stone!!

lol ... thanks @MissGotRocks ! Yeah, I kind of feel like I needed a face-slap. I do believe I did say it was a beautiful diamond. I was a bit “tongue-in-cheek” with the 56.4 table ... it is true I was hoping for a smaller table (54-55) ... but honestly, it really is only a small difference, and I might love it!
Something else to laugh about ... I ordered the 1.22 but changed it to the 1.42, so I’m only going up .30 ... the thing is that I originally wanted to stay under 1.5 carats ... but once I had the 1.42 and decided to exchange it (almost medium fluorescence), I thought I could stand something slightly bigger ... you know how it is!!! I still wanted to stay around 1.75 though. Who knows. If I eventually decide I want something bigger, I can just drop color and/or clarity. Not sure I would want to spring for a D color over 2 carats.
Thank you for your words. (Life has been a bit uhhh challenging lately and so I need some soap or slap or whatever to get back on track). No of course don’t feel bad for me, hahaha ... not everyday I can get a diamond like this!

Kmoro - I can’t wait for you to get your stone! Honestly, it looks AMAZING. I have a feeling that the uncertainty you went through will all be worth it in the end :)

Thank you, @DiamondsAndDior !!! Good luck to you on your diamond search!

Beautiful stone!. Yup, stupid b/c of the 56.4% ??.

I know, I know, for me if I had a choice I would prefer a table of 54-55% with a crown height of 15.5 - 15.7%. ..a mind thing. :bigsmile:

Did the color/clarity came out as promised?

Yup - aren’t first world problems awesome???? lol It’s ok ... I know that 56.4 isn’t the burlap sack of table sizes :confused2:

Oh well ... I do believe it’s a mind thing that I can get over as soon as I see it. Yes, the color and clarity came out as promised ... you can see that this stone is all about mind-clean (among other things). I couldn’t find any super-ideals with that color and clarity in that size range ... WF did a lot to get this for me! :kiss2:

(I still wouldn’t go custom cut again, lol)
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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You can always trade up if you see a 54- 55% table in the future. ;))
 

yssie

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@kmoro you’re in good company here, no worries ::) I can’t speak for @sledge but I am confident he did not intend to invalidate your feelings, and neither did I :))

Your stone is beautiful. Truly. As someone with zero investment in this purchase beyond PS - I will ditto the assurance that the green you are seeing has absolutely no relevance to quantity or quality of light return. Here is a thread explaining what it is:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-aset-40-768-pavilion-on-the-ledge.29977/

And if your stone had a GIA report the table would be 56 - more mind clean than 56.4 perhaps? ::)

I’m glad to see you getting excited about your stone - I hope you will be thrilled when you see it (and I think you will be!) ☺️
 
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TreeScientist

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The concerns described above are exactly why I would never want to go the custom cut route for a SuperIdeal. The ACA designation spans a fairly large range of proportions. For example, I've seen ACAs with tables all the way up to 57.9%. I've also seen a few stones that have borderline steep deep proportions (like 34.9/40.9 CA/PA) with quite a bit of blue and green under the table. Quite a few stones in their inventory have left me scratching my head saying "Really? That's an ACA?" CBI seems to be a lot tighter in the proportions that they allow into their line, so I would feel a bit safer going for a custom cut with HPD, but it's still an unknown what you will get until you see the final grading report and photos/videos. Not to mention, if going with a clarity grade VS2 and below, there's always a question of what kind of inclusions there will be and where they will be located. I've seen some beautiful VS2s and SI1s from WF and HPD, but I've also seen a few with nasty black crystals under the table.

All of the ACAs are obviously decently cut, and if any of them were out on the open market I would have no qualms about purchasing them (barring those few with nasty inclusions). But if I was paying the high premium for a SuperIdeal, I would not want to end up with one of these "borderline ACAs." Everything better be darn-near perfect for the premium they're charging, including the type and positioning of the inclusions (it better be a nice example of it's clarity grade). And most important, since reflector images do not tell the entire story of how individual stones perform IRL, I would never want to commit to a stone without seeing ample videos in office/outdoor lighting from the vendor, and also having the option to return it after seeing it in my own home. Even comparing stones with perfect measurements and reflector images, there are some stones that just perform better IRL than others, be it better scintillation/fire or less apparent tint compared to other examples in their color grade.

I would personally rather prowl the SuperIdeal vendor's websites and also the open market for a few weeks or a few months and wait until an already cut stone comes along that meets my criteria and looks good in videos. More time investment, but far less uncertainty.
 

TreeScientist

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Yup, wish I can order a custom cut with all my fav. proportions. I guess is not possible?

I'm pretty sure this would be close to impossible. @John Pollard has made some excellent posts on the topic of diamond cutting in the past, but in a nutshell, it's really effing hard to cut diamonds. That's because diamonds can only be cut by other diamonds along the soft axes. So even if you have a piece of rough that could be cut to the exact proportions that you desire, it's almost impossible to know whether or not you can attain those exact proportions during the cutting process. With the advent of new laser-cutting technologies and automated analysis and cutting software, cutting diamonds to an exact set of desired proportions may be possible in the future. But with the current process where diamonds are cut by other diamonds, it's damn near impossible to take a piece of rough and say "I'm going to cut this stone with a 34.5 CA, 40.8 PA, 56.2% table, 77% LGH, 50% stars and a 1.8-2.3% girdle."

So if you are OCD and want those exact proportions, it's best to go looking for them in a stone that is already cut. :D
 

EncikG

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I've seen ACAs with tables all the way up to 57.9%. I've also seen a few stones that have borderline steep deep proportions (like 34.9/40.9 CA/PA) with quite a bit of blue and green under the table. Quite a few stones in their inventory have left me scratching my head saying "Really? That's an ACA?"
if I was paying the high premium for a SuperIdeal, I would not want to end up with one of these "borderline ACAs." Everything better be darn-near perfect for the premium they're charging.

This. I’m fairly new so thanks for reaffirming what I see.
Wish I could do a H, SI2 (eye clean) custom.. lol but I know that’s not realistic either
 
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TreeScientist

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This. I’m fairly new so thanks for reaffirming what I see.
Wish I could do a H, SI2 (eye clean) custom.. lol but I know that’s not realistic either

I remember your earlier thread about the used CBI that unfortunately was sold before you could decide. Just FYI, HPD has two CBIs that may meet your specs that are listed as "Now Being Crafted." Perhaps you could contact HPD and ask to see pictures to see if they are clean enough for you. :)

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10739
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10748
 

diagem

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I'm pretty sure this would be close to impossible. @John Pollard has made some excellent posts on the topic of diamond cutting in the past, but in a nutshell, it's really effing hard to cut diamonds. That's because diamonds can only be cut by other diamonds along the soft axes. So even if you have a piece of rough that could be cut to the exact proportions that you desire, it's almost impossible to know whether or not you can attain those exact proportions during the cutting process. With the advent of new laser-cutting technologies and automated analysis and cutting software, cutting diamonds to an exact set of desired proportions may be possible in the future. But with the current process where diamonds are cut by other diamonds, it's damn near impossible to take a piece of rough and say "I'm going to cut this stone with a 34.5 CA, 40.8 PA, 56.2% table, 77% LGH, 50% stars and a 1.8-2.3% girdle."

So if you are OCD and want those exact proportions, it's best to go looking for them in a stone that is already cut. :D
Cutting to exact proportions depend on two main aspects...
1) the cutters physical ability. Since most cutters in the world are not challenged for this sort of exactness, then they don’t learn nor practice that path. Such cutters will not be able to achieve such exactness period. I assume when you meant “exact proportions” you actually mean the most possibly precise 3D optical symmetry precision which takes light calculations within the exactness?

2) yield limitations..., most generic cuts have some play-range within their focused proportions. So for example, if a cutter finds himself within subtle material irregularities like you mentioned, axis directions, naturals/inclusions etc..., most cuts (including the wide ranges of 3X or 000) will allow maneuverability around such irregularities thanks to that specific allowed range. In what is called super ideal cuts (mostly extremely tight branded cuts), those irregularities will force cutters to basically recut (repolish over the whole diamond volume) the whole diamond again in order to eliminate such issues and stay within their branded protocols.

So to your statement..., if the cutter is well accomplished and there are no extreme value and time compromises, then achieving the exactness within scanner margin of errors is definitely possible.

In some rare instances which are less relevant to the rough materials chosen for such branded diamonds, some irregularities will force cutters to certain unwanted proportions. But such problematic rough is not usually chosen for those tasks as they possess too many irregularities and inclusions which cause such problems to begin with.
 
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sledge

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I started this response last night and fell asleep before I finished. @yssie is spot on, as my comments were not directed at you or meant to make you feel your opinion wasn't valued.

That said.....

Hey @kmoro, I just wanted to be clear I wasnt picking on you earlier or suggesting you were being problematic. Sorry if that somehow got misconstrued.

Reality is I was trying to post facts for current (and future) readers so they would understand the process better.

I do wish you could pinpoint your own proportions. I asked Bryan about this before in a different thread and it was a big negative. LOL but I had to try.

In regards to your specific stone, I personally think you are being too critical. While I have seen minor differences in smaller tables and mid 56 table like yours, keep in mind that is a MAGNIFIED video performed in a lighting environment designed to maximize fire. Adjusted to real life and I seriously doubt you are going to do much but drool on yourself. ;)2
 
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