$50k budget/1.5-2.0 ct - any recommendations?

[eliu]

Boy am I glad I found this site. I am very paranoid about getting ripped off (I work as an investor, so I guess it's my job). I walked down 5th Ave in NYC and realized pretty quickly the mark-up wasn't going to be worth the brand cachet for me. A friend introduced me to a dealer in the upper warrens of the Diamond Tower at 580 5th. I thought that might be the best option, but 2 things turned me off: 1.) one of his diamonds was listed on Blue Nile at a lower price; when I pointed it out to him it immediately disappeared off the website and he insisted that Blue Nile bait & switches their inventory 2.) the other two diamonds he showed me had HCAs in the 4s; I realize HCA isn't the final word (they were GIA cut: EX) but I was paranoid he was taking me for a ride. So I'm here hoping to get educated!

1.) Recommended retailers? So far I've been looking at Blue Nile and James Allen. Reading through the forums it seems like Brian Gavin and Whiteflash are other popular options. Any other major sites I'm missing? I'm guessing a lot of these guys share "virtual inventory" anyway, so maybe more is overkill ...

Now on to the ring. I hope to propose next month to my girlfriend of 8 years. She's a 5'5" and skinny, so I'm guessing 1.5-2.0 ct is the maximum before things start looking tacky. I'd like a "classic" engagement ring (in my mind that's a round solitaire). Maximum budget is $50k but it's arbitrary (if I spend $25k, great; if I spend $100k, that's okay too). I just want to get a good deal.

2.) Color/Clarity: I was initially looking at D/IF but several jewelers told me that wasn't going to be worth it for so puny (according to Harry Winston) a stone. Assuming I want high quality (I'd say "Tiffany-level" but I suspect that doesn't mean anything), what do you think my ideal specifications are for clarity/color? Analyzing wholesale prices from polishedprices.com, it seems like E/VVS2 is in the sweet-spot of the D-F/IF-VS2 range, but would love to hear other opinions on what's worth trading up for and what's not.

3.) Other: Is it safe to assume I should stick to "triple EXs" on polish/symmetry/cut, "none" on fluorescence, and "thin-slightly thick" on girdle?

4.) Cut: This is where I'm getting really confused. Should I be sticking strictly to HCA < 2.0 or was there any chance these 4.5-5.0 HCA diamonds the dealer was trying to sell me were good? I'm debating whether I should buy an Idealscope, etc. but it seems like it would just confuse me more.

Please feel free to recommend specific diamonds! But really, any help is appreciated, I'm just trying to get better educated. Apologies ahead of time, I'm sure some of these topics have been covered in the past, but the search tool wasn't really narrowing things down for me.

 

[vintagelover229]

With that budget I'd be calling goodoldgold

He is their site so you can watch/learn about diamonds and about the cut/etc

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Diamond_Videos/


Here are a few I'd conisder checking out. They carry a Ton of amazing designer settings as well-such as mark morrell which is all custom.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8140/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9036/

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9084/

Here is a link to Jonathan at GOG YouTube channel-the first video is actually the Octavia I linked you to. You can search completed rings-custom rings-shape comparison/color comparison/etc.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=CA#/profile?user=DiamondInfoMan



Edit: I typed that from my phone and decided to hop on my computer to help you a bit more.

Here is mark morrell site (I really like the flower setting-put an august vintage round from GOG in that and it would be AMAZING)

http://www.markmorrell.com/

Here is another custom maker who does great work (warning you can not get a August vintage stone and then use him to set it-Leon a bit fickle and no longer will set them even though it's a magical combo-however if you get another stone from GOG and don't mention where you bought it you'll be fine)

http://artofplatinum.com/vault/

Let me know if you see anything you like and I'll expand on it some more.

Another thought is to go fancy (one of the stones I linked you to is fancy) but with a budget like that you could get a beautiful fancy colored diamond and it would be a stunner!

 

[vintagelover229]

I just wanted to link you to some settings that have the august vintage line (although they could have any stone-its just to give you some ideas of what you can do)

One of my personal favorites!
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bad-pricescoper-fantastic-avc-lm-creation.161471/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/bad-pricescoper-fantastic-avc-lm-creation.161471/[/URL]

Another personal favorite
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-beautiful-victor-canera-sophia-featuring-a-gog-avc.163728/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-beautiful-victor-canera-sophia-featuring-a-gog-avc.163728/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-dream-come-true-leon-mege-and-avc.156139/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-e-ring-dream-come-true-leon-mege-and-avc.156139/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avc-meets-steven-kirsch-my-ring-is-here.161350/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/avc-meets-steven-kirsch-my-ring-is-here.161350/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-gog-av-oec-round-3.137676/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-gog-av-oec-round-3.137676/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/van-craeynest-810-gog-avc.150538/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/van-craeynest-810-gog-avc.150538/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/victor-canera-august-vintage-cushion-engagement-ring.170669/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/victor-canera-august-vintage-cushion-engagement-ring.170669/[/URL]


These are all small fancy diamonds but it will give you an example of the colors you can achieve if you look long enough
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-colored-diamond-collection.159746/[/URL]

Here is where he bought most of them
http://www.fancydiamonds.net/design_your_own_ring


ETA: You can also check out this high end estate dealer to see if you like any of those rings-you can always recreate the look or just buy one that you love
http://www.langantiques.com/products/type/engagement-rings

You have so many options!

 

[JulieN]

F VS. Higher quality than that, you need to be an expert with special tools.

 

[Amys Bling]

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4755/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8175/
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8856/

 

[Amys Bling]

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2696789.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2215537.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2724962.htm

 

[sna77]

With that budget, you definitely should be in colorless (D-F) and no lower than a VS1, maybe VS2.

Here's an incredible hearts and arrow, 1.6 D, VVS2 from Whiteflash, a very respected vendor for $44k:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2631631.htm

 

[ame]

GOG. Definitely GOG.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I certainly think D-F and VS1 or VVS should be your goal. But I am sure you realize that you could get a fine 2 ct. stone for that kind of budget, so I assume you want under 2 cts. for a reason.

Focus on GIA XXX with HCA's at 2 or under or AGS Ideal cut.

I know no one more honest or thorough than Jonathan Weingarten at Good Old Gold (which is a brick and mortar store on Long Island that specializes in excellent cut diamonds) and have bought diamonds from him myself.

I have also had excellent service and fine diamonds from WhiteFlash, and Brian Gavin has recut a diamond for me.

I wouldn't use a drop shipper if I were in your shoes.

I really like this stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4755/

and this one is

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8502/

But Jonathan can call in other stones for you, analyze them, and even take video for you. This is a video he made for me a couple of weeks ago, just to show you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwiM3COzjFM&feature=BFa&list=UUEV7slr-i-VduBBnfv9MxhA&lf=plcp

 

[slg47]

yes I would definitely contact a vendor who can call in stones in your specs/budget and do comparisons/analysis. They might not have a lot of D-F VS1+ in stock but can definitely get them for you. As other posters have mentioned, Good Old Gold regularly performs this service.

 

[0-0-0]

If you have time, I suggest paying GOG a visit before deciding on any stone. You'll be able to see for yourself in person the differences among the wide variety of cuts, colors, and clarity grades to best make an informed decision.

With such an ample budget, I would definitely get a branded cut from BGD/GOG/WF. IMO paying for clarity better than VS1 is overkill, as VS1 is most definitely eye clean in that size range. I find color preferences to be somewhat more personal, so I strongly suggest looking at well cut stones in various colors in person.

 

[sna77]

I really like this stone:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4755/

This one gets my vote too--better value than the one I linked...

 

[Phoenix]

You already have some great suggestions there.

How about one more, if you and/ or your lady wouldn't mind going a smidgen above the 2ct mark?
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/2.185-f-vs1-round-diamond-ags-104045251001#!prettyPhoto[gallery2]/3/

 

[farmer gal]

If you do go with JA this would be one I would be looking at

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1393937.asp

 

[kcoursolle]

With your budget, I would probably buy something that is near an E color and VS1 clarity. This will look identical to a D/FL for anyone who doesn't have special tools for diamond grading and is a great deal less expensive than D/FL. I normally recommend going lower in both color and clarity to the H/SI range for people trying to get more bang for their buck, but since your budget allows I think the E/VS1 range will look phenomenal and still a value. I would definitely focus on stones that are cherry (well-cut), definitely no stones that have HCA scores of 4!

I agree with other posters who suggest that paying a visit to Goodoldgold in person is a great idea. There you will be able to see stones in person and evaluate them with your own eyes. They also have a fairly extensive inventory for you to view. They are trustworthy as well and won't try to pull a fast one on you. They specialize in diamond education and want customers to make educated decisions.

There are many other great vendors as well to deal with such as jamesallen, whiteflash, briangavindiamonds, etc. One thing to keep in mind is their differing trade-in policies. Places like bluenile have more restrictive upgrade policies than others. This may or may not be something you are interested in, but something to keep in mind.

With your budget, I would get a well-made ring from a place like victor canera or steven kirsch that is built custom for your stone specifically.

I'm excited to see how this ring progresses!

 

[eliu]

Thanks everyone for all the generous and helpful advice!

This has nicely limited my world:
- E/F
- VVS2/VS1
- GIA XXX
- HCA < 2.0 / AGS Ideal
- GOG, BGD, Whiteflash, James Allen

I will probably try GOG first since he's semi-local (I'm in Boston) and looks like he carries desiginer settings (which I hadn't even considered, ugh).

The GOG 1.76 E/VS1 that several people have mentioned looks like it fits the bill. However, should I be deterred by its medium fluorescence?

I love pricescope. I learned more in 12 hours than I did after a week of researching on my own.

 

[sna77]

Eliu,
I'm in Boston too and just went through a search with a similar budget. Once you decide on something you'll need an appraisal for insurance. There is an excellent PS-friendly appraiser in Boston named Jeff Averbook: http://www.metrojewelryappraisers.com/.. He can do your finished ring... If your going to GOG and looking at loose stones with all their analysis toys, that's the same thing an appraiser would do for a preset stone, so you should be fine with just an appraisal of the finished stone...

Good luck!

 

[vintagelover229]

I would also look at this stone

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8211/

 

[rubybeth]

The GOG 1.76 E/VS1 that several people have mentioned looks like it fits the bill. However, should I be deterred by its medium fluorescence?

No, I highly doubt it would have any negative fluorescence effect (haziness/cloudiness) and still get Good Old Gold's Lifetime Guarantee. You can look at it in person to be sure, but it looks like a great diamond, and $15k less than your maximum budget, which would leave a nice budget for the setting and (eventual) wedding bands.

 

[distracts]

She's a 5'5" and skinny, so I'm guessing 1.5-2.0 ct is the maximum before things start looking tacky. I'd like a "classic" engagement ring (in my mind that's a round solitaire).

Erm, I'm actually surprised no one else has mentioned this, but what does SHE want? You're the one paying it, but she's the one wearing it for the rest of her life and having people comment on it and judge her on it everywhere she goes. My fiance was totally and completely startled by my engagement ring preferences, and it took a month of shopping for us to work out what we would both love. Since you've been together 8 years, I think you probably have a good idea, but just wanted to remind you because it would be a hassle to change after you've proposed.

With that said, if she wants a 2 ct round solitaire - people have given fantastic suggestions! I have never shopped at Good Old Gold, but I have watched many of their comparison and educational videos on Vimeo, and suggest you at least start there. They're also a better option for you than BGD and WF since you can go to them and look in person (the other two are in Houston). If you're not going to shop with a proven PS vendor, spending the $100 for an idealscope is worth it. It's easy to learn to use, and you can be sure to get the best light return.

 

[eliu]

No, I highly doubt it would have any negative fluorescence effect (haziness/cloudiness) and still get Good Old Gold's Lifetime Guarantee. You can look at it in person to be sure, but it looks like a great diamond, and $15k less than your maximum budget, which would leave a nice budget for the setting and (eventual) wedding bands.

Yeah, it would seem like I shouldn't be too stressed about the medium fluorescence. My one concern is that am I paying too much?

This James Allen stone is ~1.8k cheaper (adjusting for the fact that it's 0.2 ct smaller), has no fluorescence, and scores similar on HCA (1.3 vs. GOG's stone at 1.5).

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VS1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1384481.asp

Or is the GOG lifetime warranty, service, etc. negate the differential? I get the impression GOG is really well-liked here, but JA still seems acceptable.

 

[vintagelover229]

JA is a good online vendor but you won't get the designer settings-the same videos/service/etc as you would get with GOG.

With your budget I would stick with GOG since it is so close to you. Call them up and tell Jonathan your budget and make a day of it. Go in and view a range of different color/sizes/shapes and he'll give you the low down on the cut and you'll walk out of there not only educated-but feeling like you got the best bang for your buck.

Service is top notch-they have a life time guarantee on their stones (and heaven forbid a 70% buy back policy or you can consign with them)-they inform the customer since they want them to be 100% happy with their purchase AND they are doing a valentines day special-so you could also pick up a gift for that occasion if the engagement ring isn't already for that. They are doing a drawing/give away too.

You will also be able to view a TON of settings and get a feel for what you want to put whatever beautiful stone into. Or you could buy a beauty of a stone-buy a temp setting from there and after you propose make a wonderful weekend trip to GOG and have her pick out her setting herself. Leon is also in the area so if she didn't find something she liked there (can't imagine that happening but you never know) then you can always stroll into 23rd street jewelers or Leon Mege and have something custom made just for you.

http://23rdstreetjewelers.com/

www.artofplatinum.com

Here is GOG facebook page for you to check out some videos/customer reviews/etc
https://www.facebook.com/#!/diamondinfo

Leon has one a FB page too
https://www.facebook.com/#!/LeonMege

 

[ame]

I have shopped both online and in person at GOG, I flew out there to make a day of it, and it was worth it. I got to see TONS of stuff, see it all under the machines and compare all the tests side by side with the stones RIGHT THERE. They also have a huge selection of settings and can get a lot of designer stuff.

I also agree to go spend a day selecting stones, have it put in a simple temp setting, and propose with that, and then you both can select the setting, either from GOG or elsewhere.

 

[sna77]

No, I highly doubt it would have any negative fluorescence effect (haziness/cloudiness) and still get Good Old Gold's Lifetime Guarantee. You can look at it in person to be sure, but it looks like a great diamond, and $15k less than your maximum budget, which would leave a nice budget for the setting and (eventual) wedding bands.

Yeah, it would seem like I shouldn't be too stressed about the medium fluorescence. My one concern is that am I paying too much?

This James Allen stone is ~1.8k cheaper (adjusting for the fact that it's 0.2 ct smaller), has no fluorescence, and scores similar on HCA (1.3 vs. GOG's stone at 1.5).

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-VS1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1384481.asp

Or is the GOG lifetime warranty, service, etc. negate the differential? I get the impression GOG is really well-liked here, but JA still seems acceptable.

I know a lot of people like floro... But I don't think I'd drop $35k on a diamond with floro--especially in a D/E. Floro is great if you are doing a G and lower stone IMO, but a D/E is icy white and floro can take away from that...

 

[ame]

I love it. My holy grail is a Star129 in 2ctish size, D/E with med-strong blue flor and a VS1 clarity. So that will never happen.

 

[0-0-0]

With blue fluorescence it really depends on whether you are OK with the stone taking on a bluish tint in environments with UV light, usually most noticeable in sunlight. It looks something like this http://youtu.be/67LYS4JGiRw and can look more blue in some cases. IMO it's definitely something you need to see in person.

The JA stone doesn't look like a bad choice, and you can ask for an Ideal Scope image to confirm, but I think it's pretty obvious that optical symmetry is somewhat lacking. Whether that is acceptable or not is up to you to decide.

 

[sna77]

^ cool video!

The more I look at this thread the more I like the stone I linked the best. Its about a bit more but $9k under budget, and is just about the most perfect 1.6 you can get.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2631631.htm

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You are likely to see nothing with med. blue fluorescence. I really can't see anything in my stone that has strong blue unless I shine a UV light on it! I had a stone with med blue for 25 years and never even knew it had it until a jeweler mentioned it one day when I had the stone examined! Yes, GOG is worth the slight amount more. Their policies are excellent and their service and information on the stones is second to none. They have an outstanding selection of designer settings as well.

 

[eliu]

I know a lot of people like floro... But I don't think I'd drop $35k on a diamond with floro--especially in a D/E. Floro is great if you are doing a G and lower stone IMO, but a D/E is icy white and floro can take away from that...

With blue fluorescence it really depends on whether you are OK with the stone taking on a bluish tint in environments with UV light, usually most noticeable in sunlight. It looks something like this http://youtu.be/67LYS4JGiRw and can look more blue in some cases. IMO it's definitely something you need to see in person.

Reading the literature on fluorescence (including pricescope's), it seems like buying a D-F diamond with medium fluorescence is a risk because it may be milky/hazy. If it doesn't actually exhibit such characteristics, it seems like less of an issue.

I highly suspect I wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference in person. Jon has a video of the 1.76ct I'm considering on GOG's website and he shows it in natural daylight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNM27IdTweQ&ad#t=05m35s.. He certainly seems enamored with the stone, I have no context so I'm pretty sure he'd be able to sell me whatever he wants in person . Thoughts?

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I know a lot of people like floro... But I don't think I'd drop $35k on a diamond with floro--especially in a D/E. Floro is great if you are doing a G and lower stone IMO, but a D/E is icy white and floro can take away from that...

With blue fluorescence it really depends on whether you are OK with the stone taking on a bluish tint in environments with UV light, usually most noticeable in sunlight. It looks something like this http://youtu.be/67LYS4JGiRw and can look more blue in some cases. IMO it's definitely something you need to see in person.

Reading the literature on fluorescence (including pricescope's), it seems like buying a D-F diamond with medium fluorescence is a risk because it may be milky/hazy. If it doesn't actually exhibit such characteristics, it seems like less of an issue.

I highly suspect I wouldn't be able to tell much of a difference in person. Jon has a video of the 1.76ct I'm considering on GOG's website and he shows it in natural daylight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNM27IdTweQ&ad#t=05m35s... He certainly seems enamored with the stone, I have no context so I'm pretty sure he'd be able to sell me whatever he wants in person . Thoughts?

That is really not true about medium fluorescence causing a stone to be hazy. And in addition, that is why I prefer buying from GOG as opposed to a drop shipper because they can TELL you the effects of the fluorescence, if any. I just bought a strong blue and can't see a thing. This article tells you the truth about fluorescence because there is a TON of bad info out there. In fact, the article says that many people will choose fluor. stones over non-fluor. when they don't know which is which! I do encourage you to make an appointment with Jonathan Weingarten at GOG, and tell him in advance your budget and stone preferences. He can call in a couple of additional stones for you to look at in addition to his in-house selection.

https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-flourescence