4.36 ct. RB diamond......HELP, should I get it?

[flippingdiamonds]

I still STRONGLY disagree w/ "most" ... especially these days. I don't really see many people looking for Super Ideal stones anymore. WAY FEWER than several years ago.

Maybe I should start a poll.


ETA: And in this SPECIFIC case we're talking about a stone she's seen in person .. with her own eyes ... and compared to a AGS 000 "super ideal". But folks are advising her that her eyes don't matter. Aren't *sophisticated* enough to know what SHE will really like??? Seriously? No one thinks that's incredibly patronizing?

Well said

 

[sna77]

I still STRONGLY disagree w/ "most" ... especially these days. I don't really see many people looking for Super Ideal stones anymore. WAY FEWER than several years ago.

Maybe I should start a poll.


ETA: And in this SPECIFIC case we're talking about a stone she's seen in person .. with her own eyes ... and compared to a AGS 000 "super ideal". But folks are advising her that her eyes don't matter. Aren't *sophisticated* enough to know what SHE will really like??? Seriously? No one thinks that's incredibly patronizing?

Since I made the reference to "your eyes don't matter" I'll defend my statement.

If I were buying a used car, I'd test drive a few cars to see which one I liked. When I found one that I thought drove ok, I'd then have an independant mechanic--not someone trying to sell me the car-- look at it. The reason of course is obvious--even though I may like the car, the mechanic may look at it and tell me right away that it has transmission problems. Would I still buy the car then--even if I liked it initially--knowing that it may have issues? Maybe yes, maybe no--but at least I'd have reliable information at hand...

Certainly if this case is no different--the OP is not a diamond expert--that is not patronizing--it's a fact. She absolutely should have this stone properly evaluated by a top independant appraiser to see what she's really looking at.

EGL's business model seems to be to simply state that diamonds are nicer than they are, then price the stones under what a similar GIA stone would cost, so the consumer thinks they're getting a deal.

 

[andrea1216]

Again, the EGL excellent cut (which I understand may not quite meet the requirements of the AGS or GIA of the same) was just as brilliant and sparkly as the AGS Triple Zero Ideal. The only difference between the two is a shade to a shade and a half that you could only see from the side. Last night I found something that shocked me. I found the same diamond, with the same certificate number online on www.abazias.com.. Thew jeweler has the stone on loan from the cutter, and obviously, this cutter is also trying to sell it through Abazias. I negoatiated the seller down to $34,000 (he told me that he is basically working for a very little profit margin with me since I am educated and looking at diamonds online). Abazias has the same EXACT stone listed for $27,822! I don't know a lot about the jewelry business, but to me that seems like a very big mark-up! It is probably an even bigger mark-up in price than it appears because you know that Abazias is making money too! With my hours of searching and my visual side-by-side comparisons of numerous round brilliant stones of many sizes at many jewelry stores, I felt that the $34,000 was a good deal on this stone. So, $27,822 makes it a no brainer to me, but what do you think?

I do agree with an independent appraiser. I live in the Tampa Bay area of Florida. Does anyone have a local recommendation?

 

[sna77]

Again, the EGL excellent cut (which I understand may not quite meet the requirements of the AGS or GIA of the same) was just as brilliant and sparkly as the AGS Triple Zero Ideal. The only difference between the two is a shade to a shade and a half that you could only see from the side. Last night I found something that shocked me. I found the same diamond, with the same certificate number online on www.abazias.com..... Thew jeweler has the stone on loan from the cutter, and obviously, this cutter is also trying to sell it through Abazias. I negoatiated the seller down to $34,000 (he told me that he is basically working for a very little profit margin with me since I am educated and looking at diamonds online). Abazias has the same EXACT stone listed for $27,822! I don't know a lot about the jewelry business, but to me that seems like a very big mark-up! It is probably an even bigger mark-up in price than it appears because you know that Abazias is making money too! With my hours of searching and my visual side-by-side comparisons of numerous round brilliant stones of many sizes at many jewelry stores, I felt that the $34,000 was a good deal on this stone. So, $27,822 makes it a no brainer to me, but what do you think?

I do agree with an independent appraiser. I live in the Tampa Bay area of Florida. Does anyone have a local recommendation?

Andrea,
Until we know what this stone truly is--images, Ideal Scope, ASET, report showing you the true specs of the stone, we cannot tell you if the stone is priced well--whether it be $50,000 or $20,000. You came to PS asking for advice--and no one will advise you to buy this stone without more information on it...

I had a similar experience recently with a B&M store. They had the exact same stone I found online for $7k more. I immediately stopped doing business with them, because clearly they were lying to me.

I want to again re-post this stone that was EGL certified from Abazais and what that company's response was. Abazais was honest with their response to a previous PS. Why don't you email them and ask them about it? Perhaps they'll be more honest with you about it than your local jeweler was...

Also, as an aside--most stones look really good under special lighting in jewelry stores--make sure you get to see the stone outside before buying it....

Here's an example of an EGL stone from a recent thread:

2.7 ct D VS2 for $30k and a 0.7 on the HCA. H

http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=103403464&flag=ps
http://www.abazias.com/certtemp/103403464.jpg

And the response from the vendor when the member inquired about the stone:

So they got back to me:

------
Hello [twinkie],
Thank you for contacting Abazias. Stock number 103403464--2.76ct round D VS2 EGL is available but will not be a GIA F/SI1 or better. All diamonds are priced according to their true qualities and this diamond is priced like a G color, SI2 clarity stone. The diamond cutter also said it has a mild haze which is accounted for in the price. Some EGL certified stones will be only two grades lower in color and one grade lower in clarity in comparison to what has been reported on the certifcate but price will be the biggest indicator of quality. If the price of the EGL diamond is lower than a comparable weight GIA stone of F color, SI1 clarity you can anticipate the color and clarity to be even lower than average for EGL. EGL is unfortunately very inconsistent with their grading. Please contact me with any questions or if you need further assistance with your search.
Thanks again and I look forward to working with you.
Sincerely,
Katie.

 

[sna77]

Also...

Appraisers in Florida:
https://www.pricescope.com/appraisers/florida

Link to stone on Abazais' site:
http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=110073712&flag=ps

And I've uploaded the certificate to PS.

The smoking gun to me for this stone--look at the PS search. The next closest stone in this size is more than double the price!

 

[sna77]

using the search tool on USA Certified Diamonds:
http://www.usacerteddiamonds.com/polygon_live_feed.html

for diamonds 4.3 - 4.5 ct in Round Brilliant

yields 8 results under $40k... Looks like a around that price point you could expect the stone to be anywhere from J - L and SI1 to I1... The appraiser would be able to verify for sure of course...

 

[andrea1216]

I called Abazias this morning and talked to a guy about the specific stone I have been looking at. He said that EGL Israel is off 2 to 3 shades on the color, which would make it an I/J, not a G. He said that the stone is probably priced low because looking at the certificate, it appears that it wouldn't be "eye clean." I then let him know that I have actually seen the stone many times in person at a local jeweler, and it IS eye clean. The occlusions do not pop out at you, and to see them, you really need a loupe. I really like the guy from the Abazias website. He certainly wasn't pushing anything on me. I guess I am just not sure whether to trust my own eye. My only concern with this diamond is the color, and how it is slightly yellow from the side. With that said, when I compared it to an AGS I color, it did not seem like a big difference at all. It certainly wasn't enough of difference to justify an increase in the cost. I guess I could go down to an H color, but then I would either have to go up in cost significantly or down in size. I am still at a loss.

 

[sna77]

I called Abazias this morning and talked to a guy about the specific stone I have been looking at. He said that EGL Israel is off 2 to 3 shades on the color, which would make it an I/J, not a G. He said that the stone is probably priced low because looking at the certificate, it appears that it wouldn't be "eye clean." I then let him know that I have actually seen the stone many times in person at a local jeweler, and it IS eye clean. The occlusions do not pop out at you, and to see them, you really need a loupe. I really like the guy from the Abazias website. He certainly wasn't pushing anything on me. I guess I am just not sure whether to trust my own eye. My only concern with this diamond is the color, and how it is slightly yellow from the side. With that said, when I compared it to an AGS I color, it did not seem like a big difference at all. It certainly wasn't enough of difference to justify an increase in the cost. I guess I could go down to an H color, but then I would either have to go up in cost significantly or down in size. I am still at a loss.

Well I certainly think that even if this is the stone for you, I wouldn't pay $7k more for it than Abazais will sell it for. You can always have Abazais bring it in for you to look at, photograph and give you an honest evaluation etc...

I understand what you mean about not trusting your own eye--I certainly don't trust mine--which is why it's so important to have a stone looked at by an independent appraiser--especially if the stone's certificate comes into question for accuracy...

 

[decodelighted]

PERSONALLY ... if something is generally a good value for the $$ -- and *I* like it ... I don't really care whether OTHER people would buy it.

I don't think it is like a car. A diamond isn't going to leave you on the side of the road -- or accrue lots of servicing expenses over the years (unless it's Clarity Enhanced, which this isn't). You don't have to worry about gas mileage or pollution or safety. IT IS A PRETTY OBJECT whose only value is its PRETTINESS to the OWNER & sentiment.

Unless this is your HOBBY & you want the "mind cleanness" of knowing you've got the super souped up Ferrari of stone performance -- this is all moot.

I'm not discouraging a trip to the appraiser. If that helps your peace of mind, ACES. If you do not need your peace of mind "helped" -- (I wouldn't) then don't let other people convince you otherwise.

It takes all sorts in this world. There's a lid for every pot & a stone for every buyer. I can't help but wonder how much of this "its too good to be true talk" is sour grapes from people who have a lot invested in thinking THEY chose most wisely. And no one else could possibly choose something DIFFERENT than they did & be HAPPY ABOUT IT.

Gosh -- half of the people on here that DO go super ideal crazy end up trading for something else down the line ANYWAY.

 

[flippingdiamonds]

I'm sorry but comparing a diamond with a car is a terrible example. A diamond isn't going to help you get to work, pick up your children, etc. it's a diamond! An object that doesn't do anything but look pretty! No one on this forum has seen the diamond you have seen so if you are in love with it, get it! If you are in love, you are in love! I do agree with getting a diamond with GIA but I do agree with everything decodelighted has said.

 

[sna77]

I'm sorry but comparing a diamond with a car is a terrible example. A diamond isn't going to help you get to work, pick up your children, etc. it's a diamond! An object that doesn't do anything but look pretty!

The example is relevant because it's a significant amount of money on a purchase you're going to be stuck with for a long time... The point is simply that you'd do due diligence when buying a car, why wouldn't you do so when spending similar money on a stone? Clearly doing research is important to OP or she would not have turned to this site looking for help.

 

[Haven]

PERSONALLY ... if something is generally a good value for the $$ -- and *I* like it ... I don't really care whether OTHER people would buy it.

I don't think it is like a car. A diamond isn't going to leave you on the side of the road -- or accrue lots of servicing expenses over the years (unless it's Clarity Enhanced, which this isn't). You don't have to worry about gas mileage or pollution or safety. IT IS A PRETTY OBJECT whose only value is its PRETTINESS to the OWNER & sentiment.

Unless this is your HOBBY & you want the "mind cleanness" of knowing you've got the super souped up Ferrari of stone performance -- this is all moot.

I'm not discouraging a trip to the appraiser. If that helps your peace of mind, ACES. If you do not need your peace of mind "helped" -- (I wouldn't) then don't let other people convince you otherwise.

It takes all sorts in this world. There's a lid for every pot & a stone for every buyer. I can't help but wonder how much of this "its too good to be true talk" is sour grapes from people who have a lot invested in thinking THEY chose most wisely. And no one else could possibly choose something DIFFERENT than they did & be HAPPY ABOUT IT.

Gosh -- half of the people on here that DO go super ideal crazy end up trading for something else down the line ANYWAY.

Really interesting post, Deco. As usual.

Your first line reminds me of the movie SHALLOW HAL.

I think you're on to something when you advocate that people be comfortable with the stone even if they know it isn't super ideal. As long as they are educated on what the numbers *might* mean, then that should be enough.

However, I think many newer PSers come here looking for PS to confirm that they've found the right diamond, and they let their emotions about the diamond they have in hand cloud their perspective. I did this myself with my first cushion. I had been on PS for a short time already, and then I went shopping for a cushion. I found a cushion I love love LOVED and posted it for feedback here on PS.

And many people said it was okay, but not good or great. Deco, I think you said it looked dull. I had so much feedback from so many people I already trusted here on PS to find another stone, and guess what I did?

I bought it.

And I really did love it. For a while. And then enough time passed that I was finally able to see what everyone else saw, and I regretted that decision. I should have listened to everyone's feedback.

Now I'm on an upgrade stone, and I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE it.

 

[sna77]

However, I think many newer PSers come here looking for PS to confirm that they've found the right diamond, and they let their emotions about the diamond they have in hand cloud their perspective

I agree with this totally, and it's stated much more eloquently than I did--thank you Haven.

Out of sheer curiosity, I emailed Abazais about this stone earlier today. This was their response:

I have not yet been able to determine if stock number 11073712 is available yet, but I do want to acknowledge your question regarding the price. This stone is graded by EGL. EGL is discounted when compared to similarly graded GIA stones. (GIA is the diamond quality standard for all pricing.) This is due to a difference in grading scales between the labs. While they use similar nomenclature the grades actually mean different things. This results in a 2-3 color grade inflation of EGL stones and a typical 1-2 grade inflation of the clarity. This is all accounted for in the pricing, if you compare you will see there is a significant price difference between GIA and EGL stones. However, this diamond is heavily discounted far beyond the normal discounting for EGL diamonds which indicates an egregious discrepancy in quality. I would estimate that the stone has a very visible inclusion(s) and/or is very yellow in color. Diamonds are always priced according to their actual quality regardless of what the certificate says, so the fact that this stone is so much less expensive than comparably graded EGL diamonds tells me that it is not a good quality option.
Please let me know if you have any questions in the meantime.

 

[OCgirl]

I am not an expert but I read through this entire thread. I am fairly new compare to the veterans who have already commented here. I would say this is not a horrible puzzle to solve. We know that:
1) The OP has seen the diamond and she so far loves it
2) She compared it with a AGS000 diamond and doesn't see any difference in light performance with her own eyes (although jewelry store lights are very deceiving)

I think the above two are enough to warrant a further to-go on this stone. Her due diligence should come after she purchases the stone (with a 30 day return period..etc) and:
1) Bring it to an independent appraiser
2) Buy or borrow an ASET scope (from the appraiser) to further assess cut performance
3) Decide if the price is still reasonable after seeing the appraisal
4) Look at the stone some more because I did see some posts here that the owner of SI2/I1 stones initially thought the stone was eye-clean but *started* seeing the inclusions AFTER. This is not uncommon. Once you get familiar with where the inclusions are (and she mentioned the inclusions are black carbon spots), it is entirely possible to start seeing them with your naked eyes from certain angles and under certain lightings. It might bother some and it might not bother others. Also everyone's eye sight is so different.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[andrea1216]

Well, I am just dumbfounded because I have looked at the stone and it is amazing even when compared to an AGS triple zero diamond. It also looked only slightly lighter from the side than that same AGS, I color diamond. The guy from Abazias admitted to me that he has never seen the diamond before. They don't have any of their inventory in stock. I certainly don't want to be a fool and believe something that is to good to be true, but at the same time, I know what this stone looks like. Is it good enough on paper to then make a final decision visually? I definitely can order it through Abazias and then take it to an independent appraiser, but then I will have to pay the shipping to me and back if I don't give it. Abazias estimated that it would cost $200 each way to ship because of the size and value of the diamond.

 

[decodelighted]

Diamonds are always priced according to their actual quality regardless of what the certificate says,

I'll disagree *again*. I do not believe the above statement is true when it comes to:

1) antique stones sold by non-jewelers
2) stones sold by laymen themselves
3) all shapes other than round --- asschers, for instance, can vary a great deal in *beauty* to the eye -- same price, same size, different degree of objective *beauty*.


Yes, people have an emotional attachment to "a bird in the hand"
Yes, round brilliants are mostly priced according to what people in the jewelry biz think that particular stone would fetch
Yes, people have very different, say, color-sensitivity. What a vendor might think as "very tinted" might appear white to a layman.
Yes, people have very different priorities. Some value SIZE way, way, way more than optimal cut quality OR eye-cleanness OR color

I have no argument with people stating their own opinions. That's what the forum is here for! I *do* have a problem with people speaking for the forum as a whole. There are a lot of voices here beyond the self-diagnosed "cut-nut" contingent.

 

[sapphirering]

OP, if you like the diamond, you like the diamond. There's no need to justify why you like it. The question is whether the price is fair for the diamond. I think an appraisal with an independent third party will help you with that, especially if you plan on insuring it.

There does seem to be a movement toward old cuts recently. But I'll bet there are a lot of lurkers like me who like OECs, but will never give up their AGS000 for the light performance. I've been to Lang's Antiques and checked out all the amazing old cut diamonds. They are gorgeous but at the end of the day, I love my AGS000 stone and it has just as much fire and sparkle, if not more, than any old cuts that I've seen IMO. YMMV, of course.

 

[sna77]

Well, I am just dumbfounded because I have looked at the stone and it is amazing even when compared to an AGS triple zero diamond. It also looked only slightly lighter from the side than that same AGS, I color diamond. The guy from Abazias admitted to me that he has never seen the diamond before. They don't have any of their inventory in stock. I certainly don't want to be a fool and believe something that is to good to be true, but at the same time, I know what this stone looks like. Is it good enough on paper to then make a final decision visually? I definitely can order it through Abazias and then take it to an independent appraiser, but then I will have to pay the shipping to me and back if I don't give it. Abazias estimated that it would cost $200 each way to ship because of the size and value of the diamond.

I'll bow out after this post, because I've already stated my opinion that this is probably not a great stone unless you don't care about anything other than having a 4 ct diamond...

This would be the deal breaker for me:
this diamond is heavily discounted far beyond the normal discounting for EGL diamonds which indicates an egregious discrepancy in quality

reposting Haven's link from the beginning of the thread:

I put the numbers into the HCA. It scored a 5.5: Good, only if price is your main criterion.
I'm guessing you care about more than just price, right?

 

[OCgirl]

Well, I am just dumbfounded because I have looked at the stone and it is amazing even when compared to an AGS triple zero diamond. It also looked only slightly lighter from the side than that same AGS, I color diamond. The guy from Abazias admitted to me that he has never seen the diamond before. They don't have any of their inventory in stock. I certainly don't want to be a fool and believe something that is to good to be true, but at the same time, I know what this stone looks like. Is it good enough on paper to then make a final decision visually? I definitely can order it through Abazias and then take it to an independent appraiser, but then I will have to pay the shipping to me and back if I don't give it. Abazias estimated that it would cost $200 each way to ship because of the size and value of the diamond.

I think the comment from Abazias is a very general comment (which most likely applies to most/majority of the EGL International/Israel graded diamonds). They are being honest. Most of the people are unwilling to take the risk when it comes to making big purchases like this. We choose to stick with GIA/AGS graded stones because you know what you are paying for. I personally have seen 8 or 9 EGL Israel stones (seems like a lot of downtown LA jewelers stock them) and found them not appealing, esp. next to GIA graded stones. But that is not to say there isn't a good one out of... hundreds? thousands? I think the point is most of us are unwilling to take that risk/stress/money. It is a risk, that's for sure. But you have to ask yourself even if the independent appraisal comes back 2 - 3 color grades lower, clarity lower, "good" cut, will you still "like" the stone? What does "value" mean to you? I think most things in the market are priced accordingly, but sometimes it comes down to preference. You might not like a stone but another buyer finds it attractive, and vice versa. The risk that comes with an EGL graded stone is we don't know what it really is so there's no way to value it using comparables.

 

[Haven]

More great points, all around.

Andrea--You have gotten a lot of great information here from a variety of viewpoints. Everyone is going to have different priorities. For example, I'm not an RB fan, but if I were, I would only buy an ideal cut RB. I would require that it be certified by GIA so I could have a reliable standard for judging its price and cut. But that's me. You seem to want this stone, and it doesn't really matter if others wouldn't buy it. If you want it, and it's worth it to you, then get it.

I just wanted to share my story because you remind me of myself when I found my first stone. I was too excited about it to really take anyone's advice, and it was only after some time passed that I could *see* what they were talking about.

When you're shopping for a stone you are so excited that you just want the stone to be in your hands as soon as possible. You think that it is gorgeous in your eyes, so what could go wrong? It's easy to forget that you will wear it on your hand and see it in a huge variety of lighting conditions, and with time, you just might understand what some PSers were talking about. Or you'll see a woman at work who has an ideal cut stone and then you might notice the difference, long after the purchase has been made. Or you might not. Only time will tell.

 

[OCgirl]

More great points, all around.

Andrea--You have gotten a lot of great information here from a variety of viewpoints. Everyone is going to have different priorities. For example, I'm not an RB fan, but if I were, I would only buy an ideal cut RB. I would require that it be certified by GIA so I could have a reliable standard for judging its price and cut. But that's me. You seem to want this stone, and it doesn't really matter if others wouldn't buy it. If you want it, and it's worth it to you, then get it.

I just wanted to share my story because you remind me of myself when I found my first stone. I was too excited about it to really take anyone's advice, and it was only after some time passed that I could *see* what they were talking about.

When you're shopping for a stone you are so excited that you just want the stone to be in your hands as soon as possible. You think that it is gorgeous in your eyes, so what could go wrong? It's easy to forget that you will wear it on your hand and see it in a huge variety of lighting conditions, and with time, you just might understand what some PSers were talking about. Or you'll see a woman at work who has an ideal cut stone and then you might notice the difference, long after the purchase has been made. Or you might not. Only time will tell.

I think Haven has a VERY GOOD point. I almost bought a GIA very good cut stone from a downtown LA jeweler (this is before I found PS) but we could not settle on the price. A few weeks later I found Brian Gavin (also before PS) and bought my current engagement diamond from him in less than a week (in my head it was *meant to be*). I often reflect upon those times and realize how excited and irrational I was without doing enough research. Had we bought the GIA very good cut stone, I would be so unhappy with the cut now!!! It was cut way too deep and it faced up close to an H (it was put next to a GIA graded H for me to compare at the time) but I was so hung up over the graded color (E color). I think to "counter" this possible irrationality, you really need to use an independent appraiser to give you all the information you need to make a wise decision.

 

[sapphirering]

I might be too cynical here... but OP, are you sure the store owner showed you an AGS000 stone for comparison? Because there should be *some* differences between a well-cut stone and a stone that scored 5.5 on the HCA tool....

 

[winternight]

Well, I am just dumbfounded because I have looked at the stone and it is amazing even when compared to an AGS triple zero diamond. It also looked only slightly lighter from the side than that same AGS, I color diamond. The guy from Abazias admitted to me that he has never seen the diamond before. They don't have any of their inventory in stock. I certainly don't want to be a fool and believe something that is to good to be true, but at the same time, I know what this stone looks like. Is it good enough on paper to then make a final decision visually? I definitely can order it through Abazias and then take it to an independent appraiser, but then I will have to pay the shipping to me and back if I don't give it. Abazias estimated that it would cost $200 each way to ship because of the size and value of the diamond.

It sounds like an amazing stone. If I were you I'd go for it and get the independant appraisal. Here's the thing a few years ago I bought some diamond huggies - one pair with hearts and arrows and one pair from Costco. The Costco pair were cheaper and bigger in size. Many people on PS were very critical of the Costco pair -- which they had never seen in person ---- basically that of course the hearts and arrows, ideal cut pair would sparkle more, look better, etc. Know what? There was no visual difference to me or my husband! I took both pairs out in different lighting and saw nothing to distinguish the "better cut" pair except that they were smaller! Btw. Deco was awesome in that thread - as she is in this one - and totally stood up for me!

Of course it is a different thing when you're talking about a big stone BUT how many people here are into old cut diamonds which aren't ideal but sparkle and have their own charm. Or fancy cuts like cushions or emeralds that just have a different look. I got some OEC diamond earrings and showed them to a friend who loved them - and prefered them to my modern round brilliant ring. Maybe you should trust yourself more and then get an appraisal as backup, rather than just letting people here tell you what they would do when they havne't seen the stone!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I have been shopping for diamonds for a while and when an EGL diamond is regraded by GIA with different color the price usually stays the SAME. So when people say that EGL is cheaper they are mistaken.

Actually, it is worse than that. Usually, a diamond will cost LESS with a GIA report than it will with an EGL report. That is why the diamond was sent to EGL to begin with -- because the vendor can sell it for more money.

It is not only cut and color that are issues, but cut grading too is very lax by EGL. Consumers don't focus on that enough when they try to "equate" an EGL stone with GIA comps.

I have not studied the grading of round brilliant cut diamonds like have the other cuts, but I was told that The vendors send their stones to GIA because they can get a higher price for them with a GIA report. If they don't think they can get at least a SI2 grade from GIA then they send it to EGL. Of course this thread is on a brilliant cut diamond.

I've seen some really badly cut stones graded by GIA and cut is king. They just grade what is sent to them, it does not make the stone better or worse. It is simply a grading report...not a recommendation of a "good" or "better" diamond. My jeweler stated that he has seen SI2 GIA graded stones that the clarity was worse than my SI2 EGL graded stone.

I suggest you read the studies done in the articles I posted above. Very interesting.

But AGS is the best grading lab by far. Some professional just posted an article on PS on AGS about how superior they are in many ways. GIA and AGS grade stricter on color and clarity usually but cut is king and cut is not matter of opinion but technical facts. measurements of depth, table, angles are not subjective although they can vary just slightly. There are many well cut EGL stones and many badly cut GIA stones out there especially when you are looking for a chunky cut cushion or OMC...I've seen some really shallow GIA stones in those cuts that cannot possibly be good looking diamonds IMO.

Contrary to your position, all EGL graded stones are not ugly badly performing diamonds....that is my main point.

Are you in the trade? You are very confident in your assertions for a new member of the community.

And you completely missed my point. My comment had little or nothing at all to do with "all GIA stones are good or all EGL stones are bad". The report does not make the diamond anything. It is what it is. My comment strictly concerned the pricing of diamonds.

The economics of the diamond market work in a very specific way. Diamond cutters and wholesalers target their uncerted goods to the lab that will allow them to get the most money *for that diamond*. Some diamonds will trade for less with a GIA report than they would with an EGL report, because GIA would grade them below certain important cut points for value on one or more dimentions, either clarity, color, or cut -- it is not only SI2 versus I1, but J versus K, Very Good cut verus Fair Cut. When diamond would fall below one of those important points by GIA, then it will likely to targeted to EGL, and will sell for more money with that EGL report than the SAME diamond would have sold for with a GIA report.

Are there lovely stones with EGL reports? Of course. But they are not good value for the dollar as a general rule.

 

[Dreamer_D]

OP, the Abazias quote that Sna listed is good -- if you want to know what the true grade of this diamond is, then look at its price, use the search tool to look at similar carat weight diamonds with GIA reports, and go down the color/clarity/cut grades until you reach the point where the GIA stones cost the same (or even a little less) than this one you love. That is the best way to know the equivalent grades of your diamod.

 

[andrea1216]

I am still trying to figure out why the price is so great on this diamond that looks so amazing in person. I looked at the certificate again, and realized, for the first time, that the girdle is "slightly thick." Is this something that would drive the diamond's value/price down?

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am still trying to figure out why the price is so great on this diamond that looks so amazing in person. I looked at the certificate again, and realized, for the first time, that the girdle is "slightly thick." Is this something that would drive the diamond's value/price down?

No. That won't be it.

I think that you need to take it to a reputable indepedent appraiser. The stone is priced about 1/3 what I would expect for the carat weight. There is *nothing wrong* with desiring size or some other factor more than another. But you need to go into this knowing exactly what you are getting and the compromise you are making. I promise you, there will be something that is determining this stone's value that you as a non-expert cannot see, and the jeweler who wants to make a sale is not pointing out. This is a lot of money to spend, make sure you go into it with your eyes open. I do not ascribe to the idea of letting your "heart" make decisions like this. It is too much money to potentially regret later when you do discover a flaw you cannot see in the jewelers lighting.

 

[andrea1216]

So, I called the jeweler this morning to let him know that I need to take it to get an independent appraisal. He said I can pick it up this morning. I called around and found a lady who is a GIA trained, independent appraiser. It sounds like she goes and appraisers at local jewelry stores. She is not familiar with the jeweler the stone is from. She is about 45 minutes away from me. She said that we could meet up and she would do an appraisal in front of me. The appraisal will take about 30-45 minutes. Does this all sound okay? I am assuming that the jeweler is only letting me take the ring for the day, so I am not sure what other options I have. I know some appraisers take 2-3 days to turnaround. I wish someone posting on here was in the Tampa Bay area!

 

[sna77]

So, I called the jeweler this morning to let him know that I need to take it to get an independent appraisal. He said I can pick it up this morning. I called around and found a lady who is a GIA trained, independent appraiser. It sounds like she goes and appraisers at local jewelry stores. She is not familiar with the jeweler the stone is from. She is about 45 minutes away from me. She said that we could meet up and she would do an appraisal in front of me. The appraisal will take about 30-45 minutes. Does this all sound okay? I am assuming that the jeweler is only letting me take the ring for the day, so I am not sure what other options I have. I know some appraisers take 2-3 days to turnaround. I wish someone posting on here was in the Tampa Bay area!

Did you ask her what tools she has available? She should have an Ideal Scope and ASET at the very least...

 

[andrea1216]

I called an made an appointment with someone I feel better about because they are one of the few within my area that is listed on this website as an appraiser. I did not ask about what tools he would be using, but hopefully, I am okay because he was listed on this website??? My appointment is in an hour. I should know something to post very soon!