3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search-fu!

[Asariel]

Hi All,

Loving this website from the shadows on and off for a while now. Like most, I've spent weeks and months of reading, searching thinking etc. etc. and now I'm down to the wire I'm in a tizzy.

I have a stone in mind and I'm almost ready to pull the trigger, but have the nagging doubt I could either do better/similar for less, (maybe drop to I/J) or keep the same quality of cut/color and stay within budget for a slightly smaller stone. This one is pretty much at the limit of my budget ($3600) and making me a little uncomfortable.

Could you suplement my search-fu and either blow this stone out of the water, or confirm it's as good as i'll find at the price point?

Ring size 4.5/5 so not sure I'd want to go much bigger than this stone, even if lowering quality, as she isn't fond of the look of larger stones than around this size on smaller fingers. So as I said it's down to cutting price for a similar stone (ideally $3k or under), or upping quality for the same price.

My budget is essentially 3k, though I can push to 3.5k at a stretch (the joys of Uk VAT on imports It just drops to14k White gold rather than platium for the setting if the upper limit.

Help! And thanks!

~$3600

AGS 0 HCA < 2

Carat 0.803
Color H
Clarity SI1(Eye clean, checked)
Cut Ideal
Scopes etc. I've seen and look great

Depth % 61.3
Table % 57.7
Crown Angle 34.4
Star 51.0
Pavilion Angle 40.8
Crown % 14.5
Lower Girdle % 79.0
Measurements 5.95x5.99x3.66
Culet Pointed
Fluorescence Negligible
Girdle Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Looks like you know enough to get it right

 

[tyty333]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

That looks to be a good stone. Are you just looking for basically the same at lower cost (if possible)?

I check JA and didnt see anything (AGS0) that topped what you have for the money. It's a sign.

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Thanks both.

Yes pretty much looking for around that for a lower price and some tweaks. Having to drop to I colour likely, and perhaps finding a GIA with just as good scopes rather than an AGS0, or even dropping the size a little. My own search didn't turn up too much, but at this point I'm more than a little myoptic. (Saw a few larger but not eye clean or as well cut, which is the opposite to the way I want to go! Another almost as well cut at 0.7ct but $3300 which isn't much difference for the drop in size).

Just have a feling I can get an 0.8ct, I color, <2 HCA with good scopes, or a 0.75-78 or the like closer to $3k. (then again maybe this one is as good as it gets in the range!)

The different isn't a huge amount of money, and I've put more than the worth of that into the hours of searching, but we all like to get something at a good price, it'll always niggle otherwise.

Anyway, the above is making me feel a little better about this then. I'll maybe have one last pass through and see if anything pops out I missed, widen the criteria a bit and do some more manual checking perhaps.

 

[JDDN]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Here are a few options.

A Cut Above:

0.722 H SI1 eye clean for $3159 (wire price).
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3372521.htm

0.704 I VS2 for $2849 (wire price).
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3408351.htm

0.714 I VS2 for $3048 (wire price).
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3460840.htm

0.762 I VS2 for $3083
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3502536.htm

Expert Selection:

0.725 I VS2 $2863
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3365327.htm

0.711 I SI eye clean $2512
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3408366.htm

0.72 I VS2 $2768
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3408352.htm

 

[D_]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

OP,

What you have is good.

If you want to see if you can drop down in colour/size a bit to try to fit in your (original) budget, I'd like to complement JDDN's suggestions with the following one:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3461765.htm

.77 I VS2
Size is a tiny bit smaller than your original choice, <.1mm, which is not that noticeable.
Price is just under 3k (wire), which may make you more comfortable w/ your purchase.

Check with WF re:
- inclusion at 9:30 (feather?) to see if it would affect durability
- fluorescence (though supposed to be almost non-issue since it's faint)

Good luck.

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Wow, thanks folks, I knew it was just my weak searching and they were out there, lots of good options!

Also found a 0.76ct, I, VVS2, 1.9 HCA, GIA3E for $2600, which seems like bargain. Awaiting scopes. Likewise a 0.8ct, I, VVS1, 1.4HCA, $2800.

This all gives me enough choice and comparison to make a decision and feel better about it I think, which when you break it down was the main thing I was after I guess!

Cheers,

A

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Sorry for the double post, I can't seem to edit. (does it lock after a certain time? I've edited posted before).

Spanner in the works! If I get the stone and setting from my local Jeweler, they are able to waive the VAT (20% discount!) as my partner is Australian. Can't do it from an online stone purchase as that won't go through their books. They are expensive, but I figure this gives us room for me to pay a bit more as I won't be paying VAT, and so for them to make a profit. Win-Win.

He let slip Bluenile is one of their suppliers (after the local dealer/trader, buys and cuts their own spiel), so I figure they do buy online. I might be able to push them to buy one of the above and I essentially pay more to them as the VAT is gone.

£3750 offered for the below, becomes £3125 and I reckon I can knock that down to £3000 (So for the stone stone and platinum setting ~ $4800).


Offered a 0.81 GIA, H, VS2, VG, Ex, Ex. (So only VG cut). Report 1199422480.

This comes out to a 3.8 on HCA Report. So a no as I'm set on a great cut.

Taking out the setting/labour it is effectively $3050 - $3375 (£2k-£2.2k) for the stone.

They flat out refuse to offer/consider stones below H colour (They a fairly well known local shop and do a lot in the high end ranges, so don't want to put their name to something lower quality, this may actually be true rather than sales guff to get me onto the above stone, but I'm not convinced).

So that's a no. But if they could come close on the stone with a better cut at the same price we have room to move.




I'm going to price match the stone they have supplied (Unless they are using a local trader with a larger markup than the 15-18% online, this should set the price they are paying roughly) and then, as they quoted me for setting only as well (£800-1000, steep for plain platinum bands as it stands too), I can work out exactly how much the are making as extra profit and try and squeeze that to an agreement.

________

Just to add as well, they'll allow me to take a stock ring to propose and have the other half come back and design her own with no charge. Lifetime upgrade/returns/polish etc. 9been there donkeys years, so that's worth it) and they're fairly prestigious in Edinburgh. So the side benefits all fit too.

 

[JDDN]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Okay, I read your last post and honestly I was a little confused. I think you said it's a NO on the 0.8 H VS2 stone because of the Very Good cut. But then it seemed like you were considering it if the price was right?? Maybe I am misunderstanding.

I looked up the GIA report and pretty please do not buy it even if you feel it's a steal! It has a terrible cut! GIA "Very Good Cut" is a misnomer because the cut isn't "good" at all. If you were to compare a stone like a Whiteflash ACA 0.7 to a Very Good cut 0.8, the 0.7 will blow the 0.8 out of the water every time. Trust me. The 0.8 is very deep and will face up the same as a 0.7 because of it. You must look at dimensions not carat weight to see how big a diamond will be. So you are paying for extra carat weight in the depth which no one sees. You only see the spread across the top of the diamond. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying .

Also, the blurb about them not carrying anything under an H because they only want to carry high quality diamonds is fluff. If that were the case, they would only carry Ideal or Excellent cut diamonds as the CUT is what produces the sparkle and brilliance, not the color!!! The fact that they are trying to sell you a VG cut is ahem…..going against their statements.

Please stick with Ideal cut AGS stones or Excellent cut GIA stones. Excellent cut GIA's have a broad range of cut so post specs and we can help you determine if it's worthy.

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Thanks JDDN. That one was rejected off the bat, all the rest is just me trying to nail down what they were charging and their profit margins. I do tend to waffle! Anything not HCA <2 is rejected right off, it's a good whittling tool!

_________

If interested (skip if not):

As it turns out, unless who they are buying the stone from off is making a bigger margin, they were very well in pocket when i price matched online.

Overall price (to me) was only slightly lower or equal (VAT free) than buying online and getting such a stone set, even with full VAT, so they were taking a big slice.

I was pushing for him to match the quality of the ones on here at that price, or at £3k (cutting their margin, but still plenty there), given the 20% wriggle room. (Don't mind if they make more money while I pay less overall, just not me paying the same and them making more!) but they aren't budging, wouldn't even offer me another similar stone.

Strange as they were happy to set a stone I buy online, making zero profit from the stone at all then! I was willing to pay them £300-£400 more than the cost price of any stone they offered of comparable cut, while still paying £300 less overall than I would otherwise myself buying online and have it set. Hence the win-win.

I can only infer that they are overpaying for their stones (ha, unlikely) and their margins are tighter, or they're trying to make more from me.

I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and note that with bigger overheads they have to cover those too, but when willing to set the stone alone (zero profit on the stone) yet not willing to make money for nothing by me paying over the odds for a stone (though still less tomy bottom line due to VAT) that holds no water. The rational choice side of me screaming!

No point "saving" 20% on VAT if I have a worse cut and pay the same as online and setting myself, and with them pocketing the difference.

__________


I'll try another place I have in mind and see if they'll offer the same on VAT. (Now I know it's a possibly I'll chase it, bound to be able to beat some of the online prices with an effective 20% discount split between myself and the retailer). If I get some decent certs locally I'll post on here for comaprison again, though there will be no idealscope/ASET/H&A images beyond what i see on the day.

Ideally I'd pick one online, they'd buy and claim back the VAT and I'd split the difference with them (essentially overpaying so they make a profit on the stone, I still pay less) but I guess unless they are used to buying online most will have a preferred supplier. (I don't know how the back end of the trade works

I have 2 stones in mind above, and when I get the images on the other 2 I'll post all four if online remains the choice.

Have a feeling I'll still be buying a stone and having it set, but I do love when I can drive a bargain in person. Starting to enjoy this rather than stress! It's nice walking into somewhere armed with knowledge and holding a few of the cards.

Turning into more of a blog than "is this better than X"!

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Ok, shorter post this time. A weekend of jewelers and none could come close to the online prices in the end.

Picking between these 4. Essentially not much to choose between. Assuming all the scopes are good, go for the cheapest?

Is AGS0 worth going for over GIA if focusing on cut, even having seen similar scopes? (smaller and pricier per ct, all else being equal)

Is it just down to which vendor/policy I prefer at this point?

0.762, I, VS2, AGS0, HCA 1.1. $3083

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3502536.htm

0.78, H, VS2, GIA3E, HCA 1.2, $2732 (awaiting Scopes)

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7301671-0.78-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=7301671&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

0.8, I, VS2, GIA3E, HCA1.8, $2791(awaiting Scopes)

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6758805-0.80-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VVS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=6758805&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

0.82, H, VS2, GIA3E, HCA 1.8, $3186 (awaiting scopes)

http://www.eternitybyyoni.com/diamond_detail.php?id=1619268&ref=pricescope#

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Sorry, again can't seem to edit posts after a certain time.

Scopes for one are in for the 0.8ct, I, VVS1 (Typo of VS2 above) and they look pristine. I'm no expert so may be missing something (??), but think this is my stone. (It's cheaper than the WF option to boot).

Could wait 24-48 hours and see if the other is as good just with a grade higher color (H vs I).... may just do that for completeness sake.

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Final scope:

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

hope you reserved it - anyone can steal it from under you!

 

[D_]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Hi Asariel,

Good stone at a good price point.
Minor leakage under the table but that may not be noticeable.

I'll throw in a couple more options if you still want to look around:
.81 H VS2 GIA3E HCA 1.4 $3,026
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7270746-0.81-carat-Round-diamond-H-color-VS2-clarity.aspx

.80 I VS1 GIA 3E HCA 1.7 $3,120
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-6966949-0.80-carat-Round-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx

But as one of the senior posters here said, find the one that speaks to you. If this one does then I don't see any reason to look further (just wanted to make sure it wasn't just due to search fatigue

 

[Asariel]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

Thanks both, yes it's reserved (Only reason I'd post the links!

Search fatigue, ha, was already there when I got down to those four!

Thanks for the expert eyes, I can see the leakage now (I think) (Light/dark areas around the middle of the table?). As I recall the original stone on WF had a small amount of that too.

Seems I've done what I was hoping, shaved that initial stone down under $3000 for comparable quality. Will wait on the .78 scopes (hopefully today), and if better go for that stone, then done!

Phew, thanks all above and to the site. I'll come back and post the final result which seems to be the norm here.

 

[flymybird]

Re: 3k(3.5k) Budget 0.8ct, H/I, VS2/SI1. Help my weak search

I found GenesisDiamonds.net have the same supplier that B2C has and prices are up to $500 less on same exact stones within your price range. If you find something on b2c you like give Genesis a call to see what their price would be. Not sure if you can buy the stone alone though, that could be the only deal breaker. I happened to find a setting I liked there as well.