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2ct

djmarcox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
19
So Im looking for a stone for an engagement ring...

2cts or slightly more... want excellent cut and wanted to see what you guys think I can get for my money...

Looking in the 16-17k range...


color h or better clarity vs

Thank you in advance for all your help....
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
BAD steep deep.

Read this:
Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-36. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants, have your vendor check the diamond for this. VS1 will always be eyeclean, but they do cost more and an eyeclean SI1 and a VS1 will look the same to the unaided eye.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Simply put, your budget is too low for what you want. Your budget buys you a 1.8-1.9 carat diamond at H VS.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.84-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-872706
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-510596
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.91-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-447341

And with 36 degree crown angles on the 1.8 and the 1.91 I cannot advise you buy without an idealscope image. The First stone has one posted, and is a True Hearts so that's a safe buy.

So you have three options:
1. Accept that you will not hit the 2 carat mark and get the nicest stone you can just shy of that.
2. Raise your budget to 20,000
3. Lower your color and clarity to include I SI1 (eyeclean).

That's just the way it is.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: 2ctou n

I only found one I color in budget worth a second glance at JA:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.03-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-796258 (you need an idealscope as the crown angle is 36 in this one too).

IGNORE THE VENDOR ASSIGNED GRADING/SCORE. Seriously. Please.

I did find this one, but you'd have to talk to a gemologist to see if 1) it is eyeclean and 2) if those inclusions are negatively impacting light performance. If they aren't (which would surprise me), then this stone might be a steal at this price: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-2-06-Carat-G-Color-SI1-Clarity-Diamond-HQXCC6

There's this one too (if eyeclean):
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-2-12-Carat-F-Color-SI1-Clarity-Diamond-2292F8 But you'd have to make sure it isn't overblue (high chance it is), and that the very strong fluorescence isn't making the stone hazy.

This is your safest bet, though 500 over budget:
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-2-02-Carat-H-Color-SI1-Clarity-Diamond-F7Q8XH if eyeclean. The IS shows a very nice performing stone. And as long as you ask about the feather, there should be no risks at all with this one.
 

djmarcox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
19
your info is awesome.. I feel like I know much more... I could get up to 20k if I need to....Where would that put me??
 

djmarcox

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
19
i chatted with enchanted about the 2.06 g.. they say its eye clean but Im gonna have to verify that... I think I may buy and have checked out... do you have anyone you recommend in nyc to check out... Thanks for all the help...
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
Gypsy|1453428713|3979454 said:
Simply put, your budget is too low for what you want. Your budget buys you a 1.8-1.9 carat diamond at H VS.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.84-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-872706
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.80-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-510596
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.91-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-447341

And with 36 degree crown angles on the 1.8 and the 1.91 I cannot advise you buy without an idealscope image. The First stone has one posted, and is a True Hearts so that's a safe buy.

So you have three options:
1. Accept that you will not hit the 2 carat mark and get the nicest stone you can just shy of that.
2. Raise your budget to 20,000
3. Lower your color and clarity to include I SI1 (eyeclean).

That's just the way it is.
Hey Gypsy :wavey:
Can I ask (not factoring anything other than proportions) why you knocked back the first stone presented by the OP as "bad steep deep", but have then offered the 3 stones above?
Looking at only the proportions of all 4 stones, I would be interested to know why you rejected it so quickly, yet offer up these as alternatives? Is it simply because it has a 41 pav angle rather than a 40.8 which is the only thing that knocks it out of an AGS ideal?
**NOTE**This out of interest...not to be argumentative or influence the OP in anyway :lol:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
It's the crown over 35 and the pavilion at 41. BN offers no IS.

You'll notice that with the ones I posted, they have pavilions of 40.6 to balance that crown. And even then I specify that I cannot recommend that they are bought without an IS.

The other reason is... there was nothing BETTER at JA. Else, believe me, I would have recommended those instead.


Hope that explains it.


To the OP. If you have 20k, then yes, that does change things a little. Stock seems to be low right now, though.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/Round/GIA-Certified-2-02-Carat-H-Color-SI1-Clarity-Diamond-F7Q8XH I still like this stone.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.06-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-726067 This is a nice 60/60 style stone. Ask if the twinning wisps impact performance.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.01-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-450095 Black crystal can be hidden under a prong.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.07-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-719305 (if eyeclean, which I think it might be) it's a really nice 60/60 style stone.
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
Gypsy|1453443296|3979567 said:
It's the crown over 35 and the pavilion at 41. BN offers no IS.

*fair enough - I was curious as a couple of the others were pretty comparable & a bit much-of-a-muchness to the first (a bit steep/thick in the crown and T-depth for your usual taste) ;-)

You'll notice that with the ones I posted, they have pavilions of 40.6 to balance that crown. And even then I specify that I cannot recommend that they are bought without an IS.

The other reason is... there was nothing BETTER at JA. Else, believe me, I would have recommended those instead.
*It's pretty slim pickings out there...especially in 1.20ct+ good colour/clarity/make - - rough has been pretty dear lately, so a few of the big cutting houses have rejected the last few assortments of goods at the sights...result...short term there's not going to be much in the way of new inventory hitting the market in a few sizes/qualities... :((


Hope that explains it.
*cheers :)
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Great information about the rough shortage.

That explains why all the nice 2 carat stones I've found are in the 27k range! :o :o :o
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
djmarcox|1453432630|3979493 said:
i chatted with enchanted about the 2.06 g.. they say its eye clean but Im gonna have to verify that... I think I may buy and have checked out... do you have anyone you recommend in nyc to check out... Thanks for all the help...

An appraiser. Yes, Martin or something?? I can't remember his name because I am terrible with names. Do a search for NY appraisers and his name comes up.
 
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