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2ct need help everything seems good but bad HCA score

S

sarkhan koshkarli

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 9, 2018
Messages
9
Hi,

I've been looking for a 2ct and found this one:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...DiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true

its an H and vvs2 which is what i was looking for, has excellent polish and symmetry. The one issue i am running into is that the HCA on it is showing 3.8. From what i understand, i shouldn't be looking at any stones which have an HCA over 2. Could someone help me with this, i dont understand why the HCA is so high and also whether i should proceed with this stone.

Thank you!
 
Have you requested an idealscope or ASET image on the stone? Doubtful BN can provide but you should always ask as those images will confirm performance.

HCA is just an elimination tool. Some stones with scores above 2 can perform well but you will want those images before committing to the stone.

It has a 58 table, 36 CA and 40.8 PA which isn't the most complimentary. I'm on my mobile but the AGS proportions chart puts this on the outside fringe of where you want to be.
 
Here’s my input. A couple of years ago my (then) BF bought me some diamond earrings as a gift. They looked great to me and I was happy with them even though they scored high 3’s low 4’s on the HCA.

I recently decided to have them recut by Brian Gavin to get them as close to AGS000 as possible. Part of the recut process involves “before” ASETs and let me tell you... they were hideous. Soooooo bad. If anyone came on here and asked “what do you think of these ASETs” we’d likely laugh them out the door (not really, but you get the picture”.

So I’d say if it looks good to you and you’re fine with it not being the best then go for it, but don’t delude yourself in to thinking you’ve got a diamond that has a great cut.
 
It was cut to retain weight to make 2 carats.

Compare the mm sizes with an ideal cut 2 carat.
 
Hi OP, the angles of that diamond are not very complimentary and yes, it is cut a bit deeper hence the higher HCA score.
Is your budget around $19k for the diamond and is this a new purchase or an upgrade? We can help you find a better stone for the money.
Also, is there any reason that you are looking at VVS clarity? Clarity is expensive and IRL majority of VS1-VS2 diamonds will be completely eye-clean as well as many SI1s even. If you are willing to drop the clarity on paper but still aim for an eye-clean stone, that will most likely mean being able to get a larger/whiter/better cut diamond.
 
Last edited:
SimoneDi said:
Hi OP, the angles of that diamond are not very complimentary and yes, it is cut a bit deeper hence the higher HCA score.
Is your budget around $19k for the diamond and is this a new purchase or an upgrade? We can help you find a better stone for the money.
Also, is there any reeason that you are looking at VVS clarity? Clarity is expensive and IRL majority of VS1-VS2 diamonds will be completely eye-clean as well as many SI1s even. If you are willing to drop the clarity on paper but still aim for an eye-clean stone, that will most likely mean being able to get a larger/whiter/better cut diamond.
Click to expand...


i am trying to upgrade my wife's ring. i'll be buying a new setting for her as well since hers won't fit a 2ct. Budget is around 19k. I was looking for vvs to make sure i dont see any inclusions. Also would like to have H as a minimum for color. Do you have a website where i can look at the diamonds you have available?
 
Try searching with these parameters
Depth 60.5-62.1

Table 55-57

Pavilion 40.6 -40.8

Crown 34 -34.5

Or a little more broad:

Depth 60-62.3

Table 54-58

Pavilion 40.6 to 40.9

Crown 34-35
 
Yes, that's the chart. The issue with it being excellent is GIA values are averaged and you need to draw a box of 1 magnitude in all directions and that is where the potential cut could actually land. Essentially it's a best guess thing and those images I talked about earlier would either confirm it's truly good or bad.

But the angles are out of whack and as others noted its cut a little deep to hit the magic 2ct weight. :rolleyes2:

I'm gathering your real criteria is actually:
  • $19k budget
  • H+ color
  • Eye clean stone so you see no inclusions (we can probably drop to an SI1 or VS2 clarity and groom over the inclusions to ensure it's a clean stone
I will start searching. Oh yeah, any current upgrade in play that keeps you locked at BN? Or can you go anywhere? Also do you foresee any other potential future upgrades?
 
sledge said:
Yes, that's the chart. The issue with it being excellent is GIA values are averaged and you need to draw a box of 1 magnitude in all directions and that is where the potential cut could actually land. Essentially it's a best guess thing and those images I talked about earlier would either confirm it's truly good or bad.

But the angles are out of whack and as others noted its cut a little deep to hit the magic 2ct weight. :roll2:

I'm gathering your real criteria is actually:
  • $19k budget
  • H+ color
  • Eye clean stone so you see no inclusions (we can probably drop to an SI1 or VS2 clarity and groom over the inclusions to ensure it's a clean stone
I will start searching. Oh yeah, any current upgrade in play that keeps you locked at BN? Or can you go anywhere? Also do you foresee any other potential future upgrades?
Click to expand...


Thank you for the help!!!
Nope, not locked to BN and not currently thinking of any future upgrades. I just thought BN was kinda well known and trusted and i could send it back if i didn't like it which is why i was looking there.

i'll try to ask them to see if they have ASET image for that diamond or not but based on the numbers i've been doing research and yeah it seems to be off.

Thanks again!
 
BN can be good for budgets but you have to work harder to find ideal cut stones. I plan on searching some super ideal vendors to see if we can get you something spectacular.
 
Okay, here are some super ideal H&A diamonds for you to look at. These have full certs, images, videos, etc to make a good informed decision. These are cream of the crop when it comes to cut quality and all are eye clean (according to their websites, always a good idea to confirm when you get serious about buying). All companies are top tier and have excellent trade-in/trade-up policies as well.


https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3936409.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3947722.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3788915.htm

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...ls/1.732-g-si1-round-diamond-ags-104065663001

Slightly smaller and I colored but being super ideal they will face up whiter than a normal diamond. Also these have VS2+ clarity!

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10013
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8852
 
sarkhan koshkarli said:
BN also has this one which scores a 1 on HCA:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...DiamondDetails&action=newTab&catalogView=true
but its a bit more and its an SI1 and i am concerned about seeing those inclusions.
what are your thoughts on this one?
Click to expand...

Angles look good, but all those inclusions on the table worry me. Also, do you see how the cert has a legend of the inclusions and it starts with clouds, and then goes to crystal, needle and feather? The fact the clouds are on top means that is the grade setting inclusion. To make this worse, in the notes on the GIA cert, it states there are additional clouds not shown.

I am afraid this stone may not be eye clean, or may appear hazy because of the clouds.

You can ask BN for additional information on the clarity of the stone, and if it's eye clean and how the clouds do or do not affect the overall clarity. Also, ask for ASET and idealscope images.

FYI, here is how the angles work on the AGS proportions chart. As you can see, the angles look very promising.

InkedUntitled_LI.jpg
 
Thank you so much for helping me!
I've reviewed the ones you sent me and i think the first one would be one of the options. I really want to stay over 2 for size. I found another one also which i've confirmed is eye-clean on BN. So i think i am left with these two. What are your thoughts on these?
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3936409.htm . - the one you sent me.
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab - the blue nile astor ideal diamond, this one is different from the one i sent you before and i think is better
 
sarkhan koshkarli said:
Thank you so much for helping me!
I've reviewed the ones you sent me and i think the first one would be one of the options. I really want to stay over 2 for size. I found another one also which i've confirmed is eye-clean on BN. So i think i am left with these two. What are your thoughts on these?
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3936409.htm .
Click to expand...
I like the WF stone if it is eye clean. Not sure if BN stones are in-house.
 
I would agree that WF would be my choice. It's a true super ideal hearts and arrow ACA stone. The company is one of the best. Their upgrade policy is phenomenal, simply spend $1 more and you get full credit on your old stone. BN requires you to spend 2x the money of the original purchase.

Not to mention you have full video, images and AGS certification confirming this stone is an ideal cut and a true performer.

We haven't discussed yet but GIA uses 2D modeling and averages to report their values on the cert. AGS uses advanced 3D modeling to scan that SPECIFIC diamond and the angles reported are very precise and consequently how AGS certs include a cut rating on their certs that GIA do not. You will notice the the WF stone has an ideal 0 score which is the best you can get.

I do like the VS2 clarity of the BN stone better but this stone is eye clean. Also you can contact WF and they will have a certified gemologist pull the stone from their vault and do a personalized inspection for you. They will then confirm any concerns you have like it being eye clean enough, white enough, sparkly enough, etc.

Truly a transparent company that deals with in-house stones and treats their customers as true clients and not just a sale. Their honesty, transparency and high ethos standards combined with a guaranteed performing stone makes this an easy decision for me....WF all the way!
 
sarkhan koshkarli said:
i think i am left with these two. What are your thoughts on these?
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3936409.htm . - the one you sent me.
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab - the blue nile astor ideal diamond, this one is different from the one i sent you before and i think is better
Click to expand...

The BN stone has nice angles and a good size. I'm pretty sure BN does not have the stone inhouse, so you'll likely have to wait until they receive it to hear from their inhouse gemologist if the clouds (both in grading and additional in notes) affect transparency. Clouds can act like the "snow" in a snowglobe and scatter light. That can make the diamond look hazy. In VS2 and below, you have to be careful. Just note that BN will require any upgrade be 2x the price of this one. BN setting can be hit and miss.

WF upgrade allows to any value with no limitation. So, if you might upgrade, it has significant value. I would certainly choose the WF stone. Not only is it a bit bigger, its better cut. WF has excellent customer service and settings. They can pull the diamond from their vault and give you a visual assessment. The WF is the same price as the BN. Its the winner to me.

You could ask them to compare to these for which is the highest color and more eye-clean.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3970295.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3817256.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3969522.htm (just shy of 8 mm mark, big discount for not hitting 2 carats)
 
rockysalamander said:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3969522.htm (just shy of 8 mm mark, big discount for not hitting 2 carats)
Click to expand...

@sarkhan koshkarli - This is a gem of a find. These are the kind of stones we PS’ers drool over because they’re a fantastic cut, eye clean, and JUST below a carat mark which gives a significant price break. You’d be 8/100ths away from 2 carats, and it will look like 2 carats at least (stones that are excellent in cut tend to look larger).
 
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3817256.htm
this is a nice stone but i just spoke with them and this what they said:
"This is a beautiful diamond but doesn't meet our definition of eye clean which is not being able to see any inclusions from 10 inches on the top without magnification." So that puts that one out as i dont wanna see any inclusions. Gonna talk to WF about the other one @sledge mentioned
 
Some comparisons how the various sizes compare...

Capture.PNG

Capture2.PNG
 
Before you get too discouraged, let’s talk about eye clean. First off, the problem with the term “eye clean” is that it’s subjective meaning that you and I may look at the same diamond and have two different opinions about being able to see inclusions. For this reason, it’s good to always define what YOUR standards of eye clean are so that you and your future Mrs will always be happy.

I believe that WF’s standard definition of eye clean means you cannot see any inclusions at 10” away looking at the top of the diamond. This means you MAY see inclusions at as close as 10” on the sides.

This doesn’t mean you have to accept their definition. When you find stones, you can have them pull them and give you a report based on YOUR definition of eye clean. For instance, when I was shopping I adjusted the definition to no inclusions from 6” away on the top and sides. If your eyes are sensitive to clarity then I would adjust; however, you need to realize the consequence is you may eliminate stones that would otherwise work for you if your eyes were of average condition where 10” from the top only works.

There is also such a thing as “mind clean”. Sadly, I suffer from this. What it means is that even if my eyes can’t see it, I drive myself bonkers knowing it’s there because it’s reported on the diamond cert. Luckily when I was shopping I was fortunate enough to find a stone that was a very clean VS2 that worked for my eyes and mind. The real problem here is it’s all mental, and normally you either significantly reduce the size or color of your stone, or increase your budget to deal with it. I hope you don’t suffer from this.

That said, here is a comparison of the 1.828 H SI1 stone to the newly recommended 2.118 H SI1 stone. FYI, I am using actual dimensions of each stone for these comparisons, and NOT the average dimensions kicked out by the weight of the stone.

Capture3.PNG
 
In well-light room, but facing a neutral background (not a window or dark doorway)...Hold a #2 pencil in your fingers with the pencil verticle. Focus on the line between the metal band and the pencil cap. Anything of similar size with crisp line will do. Move the object progressively closer and determine where you can focus or not. Only once you've established it, have a friend measure it for you (don't do this yourself as we tend to wiggle too much). If you wear glasses or contact, do this with them on and off. Have your partner do the same. Take the closer (less distance from face) of you two minus 1/2" and use that for your eye-clean distance.

The lesser of those is where you can actually focus. The reason WF uses 10" is that most people struggle to focus under 10", so its a fair distance.

I usually don't worry too much about things I can't see, with the exception of black inclusions. That's my mind clean line. I also have a 40x scope at work, so I might be a bit more picky on some things. But, if the inclusion is cool looking under magnification and invisible to bare eyes, I might select for that inclusions. :lol-2:
 
For comparison to the size comparisons I posted above:
  • 1.828ct H SI1 - 7.85 x 7.87
  • 2.166ct I SI1 - 8.33 x 8.35 (0.48 x 0.51 difference from 1.828ct)
  • 1.923ct I SI1 - 7.98 x 8.03 (0.13 x 0.16 difference from 1.828ct)
  • 2.118ct H SI1 - 8.18 x 8.21 (0.33 x 0.34 difference from 1.828ct)

While I can see a very minor size difference between the 1.828 and the 1.923ct it is so minimal I consider them the same. And without them side by side, you would never notice there was a size difference IMO.

Normally it takes about 0.20mm for our eyes to detect a size difference we truly notice. Then it becomes subjective after that point rather or not it's worth the price increase. For instance, I'm on the border rather or not I think it's worth the extra $2k premium for the 1.828 and the 2.118.

However, I'd happily pay the premium difference of $1,400 for the 2.166 when I look at SIZE ONLY. To me that is significant enough to remember and not just have bragging rights about being a 2 carat stone, yadda, yadda, yadda.

The downside with that stone is you drop to an I color. How color sensitive are both of you? Normally you can get away with D-G pretty easily. Very sensitive people might see differences at H. A few more people will see differences with an I colored stone but there tends to be a little more variance in color grading with I's as well, meaning it could be almost an H or closer to a J. This is something you need to clarify.

In all cases, it will be very hard to see the color differences from the top. You will start to see these minor tint variations from the side.

That said, here are a few more choices. I put dimensions so you could kind get an idea size wise how they compare against the examples I already posted:

HPD 1.80ct H VS2 7.82 x 7.86- $20,507
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD7740

HPD 1.81ct H VS1 7.82 x 7.83 - $21,073
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8596

HPD 1.81ct H VS1 7.82 x 7.86 - $21,073 (not the same as above, but very close)
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9589

HPD 1.70 E SI1 7.69 x 7.72 - $21,634
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9598
 
ok i went ahead and ordered this one: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3936409.htm

lets see how it looks when it comes. I spoke to the lady there and she said she couldn't see anything with her eye even when she moved it around.

she also sent me a pic of them side by side and i couldn't tell much of a difference between the i and the h on the picture.

Thank you all for your help!!! i really appreciate it.

The BN diamond is still in the back of my mind since it had a better clarity and graded by GIA vs AGS on the WF diamond. lol. But maybe thats just me having buyers remorse or smth.
 
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