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2 Diamonds - Beyond D/FL/XXX

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I am surprised you are facing a chore !

ACA & CBI have been copared often - for flavour, since the level of techical provess doesn't leave much to talk about ...

Let me play idiot: WWW

I am not enough of a RBC afficionado.
 
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valeria101 said:
Interesting ... Truth be told, I do not know how many known Type IIa -s are around at any time - the comment does not happen often on lab reports, but, I wonder how oftern GIA is asked to make this extra determination.

I wish this were a merely 3 carat H&A & would ask if the transformation could be done, brazen as the question might be.
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The subject of diamond type is probably new to most consumers, and I would venture that most people in the trade are only vaguely familiar with the concept. Here is some basic info here:
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/diamond-types-1558.htm
 
Texas Leaguer said:
The subject of diamond type ...
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May I ask how often are you seeing the type mentioned on reports ?

__
I am asuming that the relatively new tests for natural origin yield type as a by-product, so type is no longer determined just upon (too rare) requests ... but, I haven't seen a note made of this in GIA publications (one could have escaped, sure enouh).
 
Both AGS and GIA will do typing on request (for a fee). Preliminary determination is made with SW UV and final determination with FTIR spectrometer. Not many customers request it so you won't see it in documentation very often. As mentioned in the short article that I referenced, type is largley irrelevant to the vast majority of shoppers and merchants. For those who want to know, the service is available.
 
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Hoping I have not made this search for the perfect diamond - impossible - with the akward mention of IIa ... A large-ish D/FL H&A was tough enough !

I am quite surprised that one stone turned up with this unusual degree of natural perfection - and that itchy fault of the cut that seems so dam' carefully applied ... very deliberately denying the one aspect of perfection that can be controlled ,-( 'Potentially' PERFECT - the most frustrating ... darn ... ,-(

The imbalance of standards for colour, clarity & cut is quite something !: 'Excellent' cut is this broad class with obvious 'variations', D & IF - at the limit of studied perception ...

over & out
 
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These days it is my understanding all diamonds are checked for type by both GIA and AGS as well as the other labs, they just wont tell you the results unless you pay for it.
Its the first step in their check for mmd to make sure they dont get a natural report.
Those that test for the type that could be mmd are then further tested.
 
Todd Gray said:
This provides people with an example ...
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I did ask !

I had forgotten of the '2%' mention on the GIA type reports ... (shows what a preposterous requirement Tpe IIa is ! )
 
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@Karl_K

... I'd wonder about FTIR

(ought to catch up with diamond gemology news !)
 
Todd Gray said:
The GIA-GTL will test specifically to determine whether a diamond crystal is Type IIa diamond upon request for an additional fee and will issue a report like the following:

brian-gavin-signature-2-387-carat-d-if-ags-104087382001-type2a-report-gia-5171669177.jpg

(Removerd due to pricescope policy.)
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Wow. Is this diamond actually available?
 
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scarsmum said:
I wouldn’t trust that amount of money with a custom cut. Note that they don’t guarantee excellent symmetry or polish.
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The 3.19 carat, BGD Advance Selection diamond is not a "custom cut" not a "cut to order" diamond, but rather is part of their advance selection and the minimum standards for what the diamond will finish-out to be is already stated as AGS Ideal-0 which requires Ideal for both polish and symmetry.

The reality is that the best way to ensure that people get exactly what they want in a diamond of this carat weight with the desired D-color, and IF-clarity, in a Type IIa crystal is to have the diamond cut-to-order because the odds of finding it in the current manufacturing climate is slim to none if you're looking for hearts and arrows super ideal.

Most of the well-known producers of H&A diamonds here on PS will produce a diamond with these characteristics, cut to order, and all of them will guarantee that the diamond will finish out to the minimum specifications stated in the order agreement.

Thus, nobody is going to be forced to accept anything less than GIA Excellent / AGS Ideal if that's not what they agreed upon in the purchase agreement, e.g. Brand X hearts and arrows cut diamond weighing at least 3.00 carats, D-color, Negligible Fluorescence, IF-clarity, Type IIa crystal, dual graded by AGSL and GIA-GTL.

Deposit amount as agreed upon with a full refund in the event that the diamond produced does not meet or exceed the specifications agreed upon.

It is important for people to understand that this is a pretty tall order because it's highly unlikely to find a 3.00+ carat, super ideal cut round H&A diamond of this quality just laying around waiting to be purchased.

You might find a couple of decent looking D-color, IF clarity, GIA Excellent cut round diamonds floating around out there, but the vast majority of those diamonds are not likely to exhibit crisp and complete patterns of hearts and arrows, nor will they exhibit the highest degree of optical precision, nor perform well under ASET/Ideal Scope images, if they are not produced by a cutter who specializes in meeting the expectations of the niche market that focuses on that sort of thing.

Each grade or classification within the criteria for diamond grading represents a range or spectrum of possibility, thus you will find diamonds that barely meet the criteria for that grade, and some which fall right in the middle of the spectrum, and others that represent the high end of possibility.

The trick is to know exactly what you're looking for and willing to accept and be willing to pay for it, or accept a lesser degree of performance if you're not (and be okay with that).

I like to use the Porsche 911 analogy, which is based on the fact that you're not going to get G3 performance out of a standard Porsche 911 non-turbo, but you're not going to spend the same amount of money either. Some people will be absolutely thrilled to own a standard Porsche 911 non-turbo and they'll be perfectly happy with it.

But then perhaps one day they trade-up to a Porsche 911 turbo and now they're able to see an appreciable difference in performance and recognize why it costs more than the first option. And then one day, maybe they get a chance to drive a G3/4 and that's an entirely different experience. They're all great cars from my perspective, but if you're going to spend the money for D-color, IF clarity, I think it makes sense to also focus on diamond cut quality and buy the very best, to ensure that the diamond exhibits superior light performance as well as having the bragging rights of being D-color, IF clarity.
 
scarsmum said:
Wow. Is this diamond actually available?
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It was back in 2016, I pulled the images from the archives, I've used this diamond as an example of a diamond dual-graded by AGS/GIA in several places throughout my site because there aren't that many examples of diamonds with "dual-certification" (there is no such thing as a certified diamond).
 
Todd Gray said:
The reality is that the best way to ensure that people get exactly what they want in a diamond of this carat weight with the desired D-color, and IF-clarity, in a Type IIa crystal is to have the diamond cut-to-order ...

... by a cutter who specializes in meeting the expectations of the niche market that focuses on that sort of thing.
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Nice niche ! Why ever get out ...
 
scarsmum said:
I have to assume it’s take the money and run.
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That is ... startling ! - now that I have been thinking of these extraordinarily flawless & pure ...

.-(

[ Brown is Good ! - until the lie ]
 
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Karl_K said:
treated color per the grading report.
HTHP treated, it started out brown.
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And those proportions! The diamond has a pavilion angle of 41.2 degrees which is combined with a pavilion depth of 43.5% and offset by a crown angle of 35.5 degrees, so it's not likely to be a top performer (that's me being oh, so, politically correct) ;-)

Nah, we all know that's not really me, so take a good look at the clarity photograph and notice how dark the diamond appears to be between the pavilion mains under the table facet, it's not going to perform well at all :-)
 
valeria101 said:
@Karl_K

... I'd wonder about FTIR

(ought to catch up with diamond gemology news !)
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The final determination and on larger diamonds maybe the only determination is a machine to look at the growth lines of the crystal.
From a quick search it looks like they are being kind a cagey on what they use for the mass screening which makes sense.
If the bad guys know what they are looking for they can better game the system.
Some form of FTIR to check the impurities would be my guess but I could be wrong.
 
Todd Gray said:
And those proportions! The diamond has a pavilion angle of 41.2 degrees which is combined with a pavilion depth of 43.5% and offset by a crown angle of 35.5 degrees, so it's not likely to be a top performer (that's me being oh, so, politically correct) ;-)

Nah, we all know that's not really me, so take a good look at the clarity photograph and notice how dark the diamond appears to be between the pavilion mains under the table facet, it's not going to perform well at all :)
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Yes, I agree.
Sad thing is it is better cut than some(maybe a lot) of the D/FL/IF untreated diamonds on the market.
 
Karl_K said:
... cagey ...
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I understand that diagnostic characteristics usually show at various stages of inspection - so IR spectra are not called for (don't I do the same - leaving the darnest technicals last ... 'until all that is left is tough !)
 
Karl_K said:
Yes, I agree.
Sad thing is it is better cut than some(maybe a lot) of the D/FL/IF untreated diamonds on the market.
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It makes some to some degree since whoever cut this diamond didn't have to worry about the cost of losing diamond rough that is of higher quality. Then again, that being the case, they could afford to cut it to even better proportions!

I wish that everybody that cut diamonds did so with light performance and sparkle factor in mind, rather than just trying to produce something BIG that's just going to sit there like a bump on a log. I'll take something smaller with better performance any day of the week! (big secret, right?)
 
Update: I have decided to go with a custom-cut CBI through HPD. I'll do my best to post updates throughout the process. Details to follow, once finalized!
 
supacpeon said:
Update: I have decided to go with a custom-cut CBI through HPD. I'll do my best to post updates throughout the process. Details to follow, once finalized!
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:clap::clap::clap: OMG. It will be a masterpiece! @cflutist
 
That is excellent news - I am sure you won't be disappointed!! :)
 
supacpeon said:
Update: I have decided to go with a custom-cut CBI through HPD. I'll do my best to post updates throughout the process. Details to follow, once finalized!
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A New Star is Born to the Constellation Crafted by Infinity. Congratulations on an excellent decision, which I'm confident you will appreciate making for years to come.
 
please post the finished product. I would love to see it. AND ear shot!
 
HI:

Trade "up/in" from a single >3 CTW custom cut D IF diamond. The mind boggles....but that is why we are here!!:love::appl:

cheers--Sharon
 
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