2 Diamonds - Beyond D/FL/XXX

[supacpeon]

I'd like some help with assessing these two diamonds below. I want to nitpick the flaws. I apologize in advance for the incomplete information, but this is all I have for now. I've asked for Idealscope and ASET images.

Thanks to everyone in advance for any feedback.

3.23 carat Diamond 1

9.51 - 9.55 x 5.87 mm
D/FL, Depth 61.6%, Table 56%
Crown Angle 35deg, Crown Height 15.5%, Pavilion Angle 40.8deg, Pavilion Depth 43%
Girdle Thin to Medium, Faceted, 3.0%



3.34 carat Diamond 2

9.55 - 9.60 x 5.93 mm
D/FL, Depth 61.9%, Table 57%
Crown Angle 35.5deg, Crown Height 15.5%, Pavilion Angle 40.8deg, Pavilion Depth 43%
Girdle Medium, Faceted, 3.5%

 

[scarsmum]

You need to read up on EGL. An EGL D is not considered a true D. It could be anything up to an H according to stricter standards of GIA or AGI. If D is important to you, stick to GIA certification. As to the cuts, I will leave that to the experts, but run them through the HCA calculator link in tools at the top of the page.

 

[Karl_K]

The problem with the second diamond is the grading report.
Unless GIA says a diamond is D/FL it is not D/FL so the second diamond is most certainly not an actual D/FL or it would have been sent to GIA.

 

[supacpeon]

I apologize for the confusion. I linked the GIA Grading Reports to the headers. Both are D/FL/XXX (and Type IIA) per GIA:

Diamond 1 - GIA 1146664716 Grading Report
Diamond 2 - GIA 7193905384 Grading Report

Thank you.

 

[Karl_K]

I'm sorry i missed the tiny writing on the egl report referencing the gia report and the link wasn't showing up as a link for some reason.
Ok so we know the second one has good looking arrows and possibly hearts, I want to see a real hearts image to say for sure.
The first we dont know anything about the optical symmetry.
Both of the angle combinations are good. The first one is a solid AGS0 candidate, the second would most likely get AGS0 also.
As long as the first one has good arrows you could put one in each ear and no one could tell them apart.

 

[scarsmum]

I'm sorry i missed the tiny writing on the egl report referencing the gia report and the link wasn't showing up as a link for some reason.
Ok so we know the second one has good looking arrows and possibly hearts, I want to see a real hearts image to say for sure.
The first we dont know anything about the optical symmetry.
Both of the angle combinations are good. The first one is a solid AGS0 candidate, the second would most likely get AGS0 also.
As long as the first one has good arrows you could put one in each ear and no one could tell them apart.

That’s probably the plan Karl. . Best Christmas studs ever!

 

[Karl_K]

Since the topic says beyond, the next step would be get ASET or IS images, real Heart and Arrow images for both stones and pick them apart.

 

[supacpeon]

Unfortunately I can only pick one, hence the need to nitpick to find the better one.

The 35.5 degree crown angle for Diamond 2 is slightly outside the ideal range, from what I have gathered.

I have asked the Sellers for ASET and IS images, but both said they don't know what those are - scary.

 

[flyingpig]

Unfortunately I can only pick one, hence the need to nitpick to find the better one.

The 35.5 degree crown angle for Diamond 2 is slightly outside the ideal range, from what I have gathered.

I have asked the Sellers for ASET and IS images, but both said they don't know what those are - scary.

Sellers who offer Sarin reports don't know what ASET and IS images are?? And they want to do $200k business with you??

 

[supacpeon]

I am going through a broker so maybe it's not being communicated properly. I finally asked the broker to copy/paste my exact ASET and IS requests. I'll post the images as soon as they're provided to me.

Good call on pricing btw, very sharp.

 

[OoohShiny]

Why would a stone be graded by GIA in january and then EGL in December?

I am a bit confuddled... lol

 

[supacpeon]

I asked for an IS image for me to look at the hearts and arrows. He went and got an EGL Report to prove Hearts and Arrows. *shrug*

 

[rockysalamander]

I asked for an IS image for me to look at the hearts and arrows. He went and got an EGL Report to prove Hearts and Arrows. *shrug*

I am equally disturbed that the broker does not know what an IS or ASET is.

Would you be willing to consider with a vendor know to PS that will provide all the images you need?
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3931020.htm
https://idjewelry.com/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/2350829/s/round-gsllds-082/ {I like the angles over yours better with a smaller table}
https://black.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond-details/bkags-104093020001 {super ideal, VS1}

You could also explore a custom cut from Whiteflash-Crafted by Infinity, HighPerformanceDiamonds (who sells CraftedbyInfinity), Brian Gavin Diamonds - Signature or Black, or GoodOldGold - Ascendancy. All can cut super-ideals. Diamonds by Lauren can likely help source a diamond via their Concierge Service.

 

[EvaEvans]

Both diamonds look nice! They have very similar proportions. If you ask me, I would get the one that is significantly cheaper.

 

[supacpeon]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions so far.

What is the most reliable way to get an ASET and/or IS image? The Sellers have agreed to obtain the images (at my expense). Do I just have them send the diamonds to AGSL for a Platinum Report?

 

[whitewave]

I am equally disturbed that the broker does not know what an IS or ASET is.

Would you be willing to consider with a vendor know to PS that will provide all the images you need?
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3931020.htm
https://idjewelry.com/catalog/product/view/_ignore_category/1/id/2350829/s/round-gsllds-082/ {I like the angles over yours better with a smaller table}
https://black.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond-details/bkags-104093020001 {super ideal, VS1}

You could also explore a custom cut from Whiteflash-Crafted by Infinity, HighPerformanceDiamonds (who sells CraftedbyInfinity), Brian Gavin Diamonds - Signature or Black, or GoodOldGold - Ascendancy. All can cut super-ideals. Diamonds by Lauren can likely help source a diamond via their Concierge Service.

Going large carat and high color, this is what HPD has in inventory for CBI: https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9159
2.59 E VS1 but super ideal and Crafted by Infinity
$70,543

 

[whitewave]

Blue Nile has this Astor Ideal with a gemex report...

Still fun to look:

https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD01407598?refTab=DIAMONDS
3.05
D
IF
$308,700

And a 3.37 D IF with no pic and no report
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09854667?refTab=DIAMONDS
$198,296

EDIT: you could probably have the 3.37 sent to an appraiser with an ASET etc...

 

[scarsmum]

I must admit I am curious about your desire for D FL. Is there a particular reason? By adjusting these criteria down by 1-3 grades you will be able to select from a far larger range of super ideal cut diamonds that will be more beautiful. Of course you may want the D FL experience but if it isn’t too intrusive could you speak about that? When your diamond is set it will no longer be flawless anyway.

 

[foxinsox]

OK so you're paying a LOT of money for this and neither option is that well cut.
Are you absolutely set on working with this broker? They don't really seem to be looking out for you in this transaction (which would annoy me were I the one paying).
Please go to Whiteflash and get that D IF that rockysalamander posted instead - once you've set the FL, it'll be IF anyway and the WF one will be sparkly AF which is mostly the point of a diamond. I assume from your comment above that you're looking to spend around $200k, at least with WF you'd have a super ideal, a great upgrade policy and some change from the $200k too.

 

[bmfang]

The ASET appears to show that it will an AGS Ideal grade for light performance and AGS 0 cut grade, so that is not too bad. CA is a little too high for the PA (35.5 CA can work sometimes with a 40.6 PA). The deviations between minimum and maximum for CA and PA are not that bad. I would be concerned if there was a big difference between minimum and maximum.

It’s a fair way away from a super ideal from WF, BGD, HPD, VC or GOG though. But it does have “AGS ideal optics” (to use a phrase I have heard many times on Rhino’s videos).

 

[whitewave]

Here is the appraisal for Diamond 2 with the ASET and IS images. They look far from ideal, IMO. It's scary to not even be able to rely on GIA's D/FL/XXX grading.

Thoughts?

What is your timetable? Maybe you could contact High performance Diamonds, Whiteflash or Brian Gavin about having a super ideal cut from rough?

 

[EvaEvans]

And a 3.37 D IF with no pic and no report
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD09854667?refTab=DIAMONDS
$198,296

wow!
Now it has a report, but the price increased to $212,262 :roll

 

[whitewave]

wow!
Now it has a report, but the price increased to $212,262 :roll

Wow. Big jump.

 

[whitewave]

I still think I would chance sending the blue nile one to an appraiser who can do the ASETs and evaluations....

 

[whitewave]

Here is the appraisal for Diamond 2 with the ASET and IS images. They look far from ideal, IMO. It's scary to not even be able to rely on GIA's D/FL/XXX grading.

Thoughts?

That one is a hard no for me-- diamond 2, no

 

[whitewave]

Do you want to black out your name on the appraisal? I posted a pic once with my name and phone number accidentally on it! Admin deleted quickly.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions so far.

What is the most reliable way to get an ASET and/or IS image? The Sellers have agreed to obtain the images (at my expense). Do I just have them send the diamonds to AGSL for a Platinum Report?

This would be a good way to verify what you are being told and also to get the most advanced cut analysis on the diamond. You should have your seller request a 'dual light map' platinum report. This will give you the classic table view in ASET to evaluate light return, and also a pavilion view to evaluate optical precision (hearts pattern).
The AGSL light performance grading system inputs a 3D scan of the diamond (e.g. Sarine) into their ray tracer and will evaluate the contribution of every facet to overall light performance.

 

[whitewave]

OK so you're paying a LOT of money for this and neither option is that well cut.
Are you absolutely set on working with this broker? They don't really seem to be looking out for you in this transaction (which would annoy me were I the one paying).
Please go to Whiteflash and get that D IF that rockysalamander posted instead - once you've set the FL, it'll be IF anyway and the WF one will be sparkly AF which is mostly the point of a diamond. I assume from your comment above that you're looking to spend around $200k, at least with WF you'd have a super ideal, a great upgrade policy and some change from the $200k too.

I believe (could be wrong) that the WF stone is not ACA and is not in house, though I absolutely think he should contact Whiteflash...

 

[foxinsox]

I believe (could be wrong) that the WF stone is not ACA and is not in house, though I absolutely think he should contact Whiteflash...

Oh boo. I didn’t look closely enough. Tbh unless I had to stay with the broker for some special reason, I’d be finding someone else to find me my very expensive stone.
OP for the money you’re spending, you shouldn’t be paying for imaging etc and you should be getting something pretty spectacular.

 

[supacpeon]

I must admit I am curious about your desire for D FL. Is there a particular reason? By adjusting these criteria down by 1-3 grades you will be able to select from a far larger range of super ideal cut diamonds that will be more beautiful. Of course you may want the D FL experience but if it isn’t too intrusive could you speak about that? When your diamond is set it will no longer be flawless anyway.

It's not intrusive at all. I'm a diamond novice, and the only way I know how to judge a diamond is by the highest standards on the GIA report. This is a huge purchase and I just want to buy the most "perfect" diamond I can find (at a good price, of course).

I've been told to scale down my criteria because "no one can tell". But I'll know that my diamond is imperfect, and honestly it's just my own personal feeling that I want to preserve. I hope my explanation helps.