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2 Carat for 14-16K Ideal Cut.

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SwanSong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
82
Hi Folks...I'm a first time poster and have been lurking around these forums for the last coupld of days. What a great resource it is! I was hoping I could get some feedback on purchasing my diamond.

I am looking for a engagement 2 carat round diamond. The 2 constants are Carat and Cut. No smaller than 2 carats and have ideal proportions.

Is 14-16k reasonsable for this type of rock. Eye clean is very important as well.
I wanted to get your opinions and thoughts on this.

Thank You

-T
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
2 carat eye clean would probably more VS2 than SI1 due to the larger stone...meaning SI1's may have more eye-visible inclusions though you could be diligent and find an eye clean SI with some work most likely.

You didn't mention color, so I figure F-H would be a decent range. Some would suggest G vs H but depending on your budget...H may be your best bet if you want to get ideal dimensions over 2c weight.

That said...I found this diamond...and its still over your budget by $2k. It's at whiteflash..and the pricescope price is less than shown on the url as WhiteFlash gives discounts to Pricescope customers. So if you call about it, be sure you say you found it here to get the $$off.

http://www.whiteflash.com/acut/diamond_details.asp?ItemCode=365073

It's a 2.08c H VS2 Hearts and Arrows, A Cut Above stone, take a look at the stone and the IdealScope image, beautiful! You can see the H&A as well.

Anyway that is just one suggestion on a 2 second search I ran using cut quality as my guide. That stone scores a 1.3 EX EX EX EX on the HCA. The other diamonds the search brought up were $19-21k...well out of your range.

I ran another search on GoodOldGold and found this stone...which someone else on here was considering about a week ago.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_77ct_e_vs2_h&a1.htm

It's a 1.77c E VS2 Hearts and Arrows, check out the detailed reporting and the amazing brilliancscope images. It's around $17k.

To go lower in pricing, I think you may have to sacrifice *something*. I would suggest sacrificing a little bit of carat weight in order to keep excellent cut, color at at LEAST H (if not G) and clarity around VS2 or a very clean SI1 if you find one. Finding a very clean SI1 may save some bucks and give you the extra weight you are looking for.

We had someone else on here last week who was searching for a similar stone to what you have spec'd out and he had to go to around 1.78c to really get the mix he was looking for. He was considering that GOG stone and a SuperbCert one and went for the SC one due to slight differences that he felt pushed the scales in the SC's favor. But both stones were amazing.

Anyhow, you could probably find something in the $16k range, but it would not be an excellent cut OR it may not be a good color OR it may be an SI2 with visible inclusions in a 2c diameter stone. So think about what you may want to sacrifice if you *need* to, then conduct the search accordingly.

Good luck!
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
Is your budget too low? It might be depending on what color and you wanted. Why get a large diamond that looks yellowish? If that's what you want then you can probably stay in your price range. Something is going to have to sacrfice a bit though. The first stone that mara listed seems very nice, but is way over your budget...and it is an H color. I personally would not go any higher in color, but maybe color is of no importance to you.

Since you want an eye clean stone, I would suggest VS2 or a nice SI1.

Also, do you need a stone over two carats or just near two carats?


Here's what I've found from superbcert. The first one is right in your price range too...seems like a great deal on a really nicely cut stone.

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=40&Product_Subcategory_ID=3&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1

http://www.superbcert.com/products/index.cfm?Product_ID=265&Product_Subcategory_ID=3&Product_Category_ID=3&Product_Group_ID=1
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Would caution against a J color stone if you want a *white* look...someone recently got a 1c+ J on here and thought that the fact that it was a superb cut and had H&A would hide the slight yellow color but it did not, he returned it for an H. Just a note....but I wouldn't go over H on color esp for a platinum setting, unless you see an I in person and think it looks white, color is more noticeable than clarity most times.

Lugus, weren't you the one who was considering the 1.78SuperbCert and the 1.77 GOG stone I posted above last week or the week before? Originally wanted a 2c right? Have you received your stone yet?? Tell us!
 

riley

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
23
Mara,

I've been reading this site for a while and you among many seem to know your stuff. I just happened to check out some of the stones you listed and was curious abut the following:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_77ct_e_vs2_h&a1.htm

When you see the red image called "Immaculate light return," is this picture taken through an Ideal Scope? If so, is it looking through diffused light? What if you held that stone up to a window (clear day light), would you see day light through the 8 armed black star pattern?

Thanks.
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
That was indeed me Mara. I should be receiving the stone early next week, in time for valentines. I was waiting for a check to clear


I did go with the superbcert stone and already had it appraised by RocDoc. Can't wait to see it in person! I'll give you a full report when I do.
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Mara;

Just want you to know that we have set many I and J
color ( .75 - 2 ct) SuperbCerts in Vatche Platinum settings
and they look fabulous, facing up white.
Even the larger stones that tend to draw a bit more
color than the smaller sizes faced up beautifully.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

SwanSong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
82
WoW...Thank you all very much for such a detailed and thoughtful reply.

I saw theat stone you talked about on Superbct for 13k but the J color scared me off a bit. Now only If I can put in a couple of more thousand to get that quality stone with a color of H. Am i being to optimistic?

I'm not set on 2 carats it can be somewhere close. Is the difference between 1.75 and 2.0 subtle to the eye?

Once again thank you all for the knowledge...keep it coming


Much Appreciated.

-T
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Barry--I have seen many I's that face up very white...but have not seen a J that doesn't show a hint of yellow..some more than a hint. I'm sure you know your diamonds much better than I, but my advice for someone who is buying online who will probably not see the stone before purchase is to stay safely out of the J range, esp if you are on a deadline or timeline for the item to be set and completed as there will not be time for the return of the stone to look for another. If you are buying in a B&M or similar and can see the stone before purchase, many may feel comfortable with the J if it faces up white. But for me personally, buying online I would not go over an H..even I's can be tricky unless you see them in person. My two cents though...

Swan--If you want to go slightly under 2.0 there will not be a noticeable difference between say 1.85c-2.0 most likely...under that you may get a bit of a visual difference, but if that concerns you, pay attn to the diameter of the stones you are looking at. See what a well cut 2c stone will have for a diameter and then imagine what a difference in tenths of a millimeter will look like. Chances are if the stone has a superb cut then it will make the stone look even bigger and brighter than it really is. Lugus just bought a 1.78c when he was looking for a 2c originally. In the end he got an AMAZING looking stone for his budget, can't wait to hear what it looks like!!

Riley--I'm definitely not an expert on the light return concept, maybe Rhino could tell you more, but I believe that image is taken through an IdealScope or Rhino's version of one (I think he is coming up with his own version of a light return viewer). For many H&A's the arrows *can* definitely be seen when viewing in regular light, through sunlight, diffused light etc--if they look crisp and defined on the light return image, then they should be visible in certain lighting circumstances and definitely under a loupe!

Perhaps others can weigh in, esp those with H&A stones or Eightstars?
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
The second one is really nice. Just a touch over your budget, but I think you'll find you need to sacrifice a bit to get what you want.

I sacrificed cost
I was unwilling to compromise anywhere else, and the amount I owed on the stone would change over time, everything else would not.

Can I ask a carat question of you? Do you know if your girlfriend wants a stone that large? I only ask because when I went sizing stones at Tiffany's (easiest place to find big, ideeal rocks) mine said that two carats was too large, but definately wanted over 1.5. I went with a 1.73
There will be a very, very small visible difference between a 1.75 and 2 ct stone if they are side by side, but by itself I know I wouldn't be able to tell what size it was. Find your local tiffany's and go compare for yourself
 

SwanSong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
82
When it comes to diamonds with my GF....there is not such thing is TOO BIG..she was even hinting at 3 carat until I told her enough was enough
.

Thank You for the Tiffany's idea...seems very hard to find a dealer willing to give you the oppurtunity to see the different qualities of theor diamonds.

The more and more I read up...the more I'm getting hoooked to these damn things...SOMEBODY SAVE ME
 

barry

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 21, 2001
Messages
441
Mara;

I think you need to differentiate between Super-Ideal H&A's
and other type cuts. The I-J color SuperbCerts face up
real white because of their tremendous light output.

But I hear your point, and it has merit when shopping over the net.
I wouldn't automatically dismiss the warmer colors from
being set in Platinum.

Barry
www.superbcert.com
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213

----------------
On 2/6/2003 3:48:32 PM SwanSong wrote:
When it comes to diamonds with my GF....there is not such thing is TOO BIG..she was even hinting at 3 carat until I told her enough was enough
.

Thank You for the Tiffany's idea...seems very hard to find a dealer willing to give you the oppurtunity to see the different qualities of theor diamonds.

The more and more I read up...the more I'm getting hoooked to these damn things...SOMEBODY SAVE ME
----------------
Welcome to the club Swan. No one here will save you


Only you know your own unique situation, but I told my girlfriend she could pick everything but the cut quality - that one was mine. It worked out well and I actually saved money by going to Tiffany's...first time someone has said that.

But let her pick what she wants, then its your job (lucky us guys) to make it happen. If you'll never be able to afford a 2 carat stone in the other C's that she wants, be honest with her and tell her. I think for a purchase this large it's better to involve her a little if you can still keep the engagement a surprise.
 

SwanSong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
82
Thanks Lugus

She pretty much said a 2 carat diamonds and being Eye Clean. I am trying to make that happen at 14-16k.

All this talk abotu SuperIdeals is soo seductive. I would like to see a Super Ideal and Ideal side to side and see if there is a noticeable difference with the unaided eye.

-T
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
Have you taken her to look at colors yet? Mine said she wanted one that looks white. I though G did, but when I brought her to see a G stone, she said she saw some yellow. Funny thing is, the more stones I looked at, the better my eye for color became. She decided F or higher was good enough for her, but then I could tell the difference between the F's and E's that we looked at, so I went with an E. Involving my girlfriend really worked well for me...it was just way to much money to risk getting her something less than perfect.

Maybe your girlfriend doesn't care that much about color. Gotta find this stuff out.

Don't let all that superideal talk fool you. A well cut diamond is a well cut diamond - no need to pay more for the name. Superideals just take some of the guesswork out of finding a well cut stone (you would hope). Of course, there are also branded stones that are really competitive with non branded stones - best of both worlds. If you find a diamond you like, post it here for everyone to critique.
 

SwanSong

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
82
This is something I found. Your opionion on these specs.
Thank You...Price a little bit below 15k. This is being sold as a Hearts and Arrows stone.

2.02
I Color
SI1
8.21 - 8.23 x 4.96
table 57%
60.4 depth
Crown Angle 4.7
Crown 15
Pav Angle 40.8
Pav % 42.9
Polish Ideal
Symm Ideal
Girdle 1 - 1.5 %
Culet - Pointed
Fluor - Inert
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Specs sound good, do you have a url for us to view anything else?

The HCA score is 1.4 TIC EX EX EX VG, very nice! I used the crown % vs the crown angle since the CA you have listed below is incorrect. The crown angle should be more like 34 or something? Maybe you typed it in wrong.

I would talk to the vendor and/or view any closeups of the stone, check the I color and the SI1 clarity by looking for inclusions in the blowup images of the stone. SI1 clarity can be tricky depending on the grading, looks like this was graded by AGS? they are pretty reputable.

Also if it is an H&A..ask to see the Hearts and Arrows images through the viewer, they can take pix of these...if they are not already listed on the website for you to view. Whiteflash, GOG etc have these posted for you to view on all of their stones.

Price sounds good too! You are compromising on the clarity and color to get the price, be sure that the stone faces up WHITE and that the stone is entirely eye-clean.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Whiteflash must have taken the content down or something because I can't view it from either your link OR by finding the diamond on their site and clicking on VIEW. Did you ask them to hold it? They may have removed the page?

Whether or not you can see the stone first depends on where you are located. IF you can get them to send the stone to an independent appraiser closeby to you...you can have WF send the stone to them, then drive to see the stone at the appraiser's. Otherwise there really isn't a way unless WF agrees to send you the stone and then get payment (kinda tricky...dont know if WF does that). But maybe you can ask!


If its WF ACA H&A that should be a *stunner*! Also I noticed a 2.0 H VS2 on their site (maybe that is the one I posted already?) for around $15k? It's an 'ideal' and not ACA or H&A..but I noticed that too.
 
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