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1st Diamond Experience--Please Help!

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diamond_rookie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
6
Hi, I just had my first shopping experience for a diamond and would like your opinion on this.

After reading the tutorial and browsing through the comments on the panel, I was given the impression that an Eightstar diamond is a very well cut diamond. The company uses a firescope to cut the diamond to get the maximum brilliance. What’s important to me is the cut and brilliance, and without ever laying eyes on an Eightstar diamond, it sounds like the right diamond for me.

Therefore, I recently went to an Eightstar merchant, a small private own shop, to check the Eightstar diamond out. The merchant was only able to show me a one-carat Eightstar diamond and its Eightstar certificate. The diamond itself was quite nice, but not the size I wanted. Since I have petite fingers and wear a ring size 3.75, I wanted a diamond that’s proportional to my fingers. I was looking for a 25 or 30 point diamond. The merchant made an appointment for me to come back two days later to look at a 30 point, VVS2, G Eightstar diamond, costing $1900. During this time, I asked if he will be able to get the certificate with all the crucial information on it. He replied, “Yes.”

I came back two days later and was shown the 30 point diamond. It was indeed beautiful and has lots of fire and brilliance. The merchant showed it to me in different light setting and it shone like crazy! Afterwards, he glanced at a sheet of paper that I had carried in and asked, “Taking notes?” I replied, “I wanted to get the depth %, table %, and some information on the diamond.” At this point, he crossed his hands and flatly said, “No. I know what you’re doing.” I was somewhat taken aback. After composing myself, I said, “I just wanted to make an informed decision. I thought you said two days earlier that you’ll be able to get a copy of the diamond’s certificate.” All he said in return is “ I don’t have it.”
I then asked about his return policy, which of course was a no return policy. I immediately respond, “If I was to purchase this diamond, I want to send it to an independent appraiser to make sure the diamond is performing well.” He then asked, “Why do you want to take it to an appraiser? Most of those guys out there don’t even know what they are doing.” I simply said, “But they are independent, and they don’t sell jewelry…If I was going to get the diamond appraised, I was going to get it appraised out of state anyway. “ I insisted that there are reputable appraisers out there. Annoyed, he said, “Name me some.” I quickly replied, “Dave Atlas and Bill Liebernum (Lieberum). Do you know them?”
He flatly said, “No.”

*Sigh* I know I’m not going anywhere with this merchant, but I was persistent and said, “The last time I was here, we talked about ring setting and the ring style that’s suitable for my style is a Tiffany style; I’d like to ask you a couple of questions regarding it.” Again, that annoying “No.” “What do you mean?” I asked. “I’m not going to do it,” he said. (The merchant is also a goldsmith, and he only does custom work. The first day I was at his shop, he took the time to tell me that the process and craftsmanship behind a piece of jewelry determines the durability, etc.) Again surprised, I then said, “I just wanted to know how much you would charge for the 18k gold ring setting with platinum prongs.” He retorted, “Why do you want to know?” I replied, “Because I have a price range, I want to stay within it. It will help me determine whether I just want the loose diamond only or both—the diamond and the ring setting.” He said,”$3000.” ---I assumed that’s the ring setting and diamond.

Afterwards, he got up and showed me the diamond again in the different corners of his shop. “There it is.” He then sat down and cross his hands over his chest. Take it or leave it. Feeling somewhat frustrated at his demeanor, I took his cue to leave. I thrusted my hands forward to shake his hand and said, “Thank you for your time. If I ever need an Eightstar diamond, I know where to go…” With that, I left.

In retrospect, I don’t think I did anything wrong. I followed the diamond tutorial guidelines. Maybe I did ask a lot of questions, and he didn’t like that. Well, I’m still interested in an Eightstar diamond, and he’s the only vendor here in Austin, Texas who sells it. I'm willing to buy out of state if an Eightstar is still the one for me.

Please give me your honest opinions on this. For a 30 point Eightstar diamond with VVS2 and G specifications (I don’t have any info on the crown, table, etc.), is $1900 reasonable? I know there’s a premium for getting an Eightstar diamond, but is that price reasonable or overpriced? Also, for any Eightstar diamond, should I still get an independent appraiser for it? (Or the Eightstar diamond is so reputable that I don’t need an independent appraiser? I’m concerned about weak cleavage, enhancement, etc.) Since the Eightstar diamond will return the maximum brillance due to cut, should I go down a couple of notches on the clarity (to a SI) and color (to a J)? Also, are there any recommended Eightstar vendors who would provide better customer service out there?

I look forward to your comments and suggestions.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Hi Diamond_rookie, thank you for taking time and sharing your story!

I’ll write only my opinion without pretension on the final answer.

You are right, 8* are very beautiful stones that are cut very consistently. Many consumers liked it special fiery look.

Yes EightStar diamonds priced higher than other ideal cut H&A stones you can buy via the Internet. Some consumers don’t mind it, which is perfectly all right. :)

I don’t think there is a need for you to check proportions of the 8* diamond. If you seen it in the Firescope that should be enough.

I don’t know about David but Bill definitely had seen quite a few 8* diamonds. He’s been a great fan of them a couple of years ago. Not sure about today though.

I don’t think you really need anyone to check an 8* diamond except to make sure it is matches the grading report, i.e. it is indeed the diamond you’re paying for.

However, defensive attitude of the dealer sounds rather strange indeed. I don’t know why he behaved this way maybe he already had some negative experience with "smarty pants" consumers that know too much. :)

I know there are a few great people who sell 8*: Steve Livingston (http://www.demsjewelers.com/), Wink Jones (http://www.diamondsandgems.com) and others.

You also can contact Richard von Steinberg via his site www.eightstar.com. I’m sure he’ll help you.

You also might want to consider going down in clarity to VS or SI1 and save some money or get bigger stone. If your dealer doesn’t have it, Richard might help you finding one.


Please give me your honest opinions on this. For a 30 point Eightstar diamond with VVS2 and G specifications (I don’t have any info on the crown, table, etc.), is $1900 reasonable? I know there’s a premium for getting an Eightstar diamond, but is that price reasonable or overpriced?


IMO, no diamond is worth it. They are luxury goods of the 4th level of Mazlow's pyramid model of Theory of Needs :)

I understand, many people enjoy them so the price is what people are ready to pay. Same apply to 8*, Hearts on Fire and other branded diamonds on the market. Yes, they are very beautiful. Is it worth it? Only you can justify it. :)

Re: maximum brilliance. That is not 100% correct. Brilliance is a human perception hence different diamonds can appear more or less brilliant to different people.

8* diamonds are cut to achieve very consistent image in Firescope with perfect 8* pattern and even distribution of the red light = light return on the crown and no visible white or grey = light leakage. Theoretically speaking, this type of diamonds doesn’t have maximum total light return but this doesn't make them less beautiful because of nice combination of fire, brilliance and scintillation.

You have to compare 8* diamonds to other ideal cut Hearts and Arrows diamonds to decide for yourself whether you see the difference and prefer them to any other diamond.

On the other note, I'm affraid 8* cut is not a secret anymore. There are other diamonds now on the market that are faceted to achieve same Firescope/Ideal-Scope image.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
14,913
"IMO, no diamond is worth it. They are luxury goods of the 4th level of Mazlow's pyramid model of Theory of Needs"

Wow what an inspirational comment Leonid :)

With regard shopping around for an 8* you may find it is pretty much a closed shop. They eliminate retailers who 'poach' sales from other geographic areas.

You should not need an independant appraisal because you are buying a brand (that is what you are paying a premium for).

I think the retailer probably gets lots of other trade people in prying. Maybe he thought you were another jeweler? Most jewelers are very nice people, but sometimes guys from the bench can lack people skills.

It is a sad story, thanks for sharing it with us.
 

tonysgeko

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 25, 2001
Messages
357
We can hypothesize like maybe he thought you never had the intetion of buying and therefore just wasting his precious time, I feel and understand for you because I've been treated that way too. Before he was jeweler he was like me a consumer maybe if he had been treated in the same manner which he treated you or maybe sometime in the future by someone else in authority, he would think twice about this attitude. Maybe that will awaken his compassion. Sorry Leonid for the vent,who knows really what this person thought other than him.
 

marriahlyn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
468
I would not EVER go back to that seller and you have every right to contact another Eightstar dealer. I am a big fan of Eightstar and it seems to be what you want so I'd say go for it. I was given the email address of a dealer from a reputable pricescope member. It was [email protected] I was told he'd be very helpful and if you want more info, please feel free to PM me.

It's too bad that you missed this Ebay tiffany setting. It was the real thing and for a .30 diamond SHUCKS!!

Tiffany Setting
 

marriahlyn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 23, 2003
Messages
468
By the way, I am not sure about a fair price for the smaller diamond as I was looking at bigger ones. Just for fun, did the guy give you a price on the bigger diamond?

Also, I can't believe he wouldn't have ANY information on the smaller diamond. It sounds to me like he was trying to sell you something other than an Eighstar because he was freaked about giving information.

I wouldn't have been so nice to him
 

phoenixgirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 20, 2003
Messages
3,369
Yes, his sales tactics were very odd. His getting indignant and being rude certainly would not have convinced me to buy a stone just on his word alone with no paperwork.

If you have the time, you might email EightStar about this. They might like to know about his attitude towards you.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
Boy, I'm sure glad I didn't bet on this one......I'd have lost big.




From your story, I would have laid serious money on this retailer being in Florida......but I see you've mentioned this is in TX.
 

Uncle Marty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
75
Diamond Rookie et al,
I cannot believe the attitude some of you take regarding the jeweler.
First of all he has made an investment to inventory and sell a branded diamond.
His choice of selling a branded diamond that is so respected in the industry should leave very little
room for error.

Many of you seem to view the seller as the enemy.

You did your homework and found out that you will have to pay a premium to buy your 8* diamond.
Going into the store you knew all the answers to the questions and just wanted them verified plus you were entitled to view the actual Diamond you where buying. The jeweler paid real money to have the size and other characteristics you wanted shipped to him. He had the certificate ( or a copy of the certificate) but you were, in my opinion insulting.
Yes, jewelers can be offended.
Those of you who have never invested by owning a jewelry store and have never waited the long years of doing everything right for the fellow members of the community to accept his integrity.

I know personally, Dave Atlas and Bill Lieberium.
I know them well enough to have broken bread with them. I have visited Bill at his office in Boca Raton. THey are both qualified appraisers and there are others throuout the USA and overseas.

If you went to either of them to see a Diamond, I would think they too would be insulted by your attitude of wanting to make sure they were selling an 8* Diamond.

The retail jeweler was correct in his attitude. You could have approached your request in a more sensitive way for his feelings too. I woned a jewelry store for 32 years in Freeport NY. Sold it 2 years ago because of poor health problems of both my wife and myself. We paid our dues in the community. When the Fire Dept needed a raffle prize they came to us. (Freeport is an Incorporated Village within Long Island NY)
I was a member of the Kiwanis where we raised money for worthy causes. I am a Free and Accepted Mason. When the local Police department needed me professionally (to teach and identify stolen property aI gave up my free time which wasn't free to my family). The community of Freeport became our extended family but it was not to say that often buyers of Diamonds and Gemstone jewelry wanted to go to an appraiser. I had no objections as long as they were qualified. Often they were not. Your Jeweler had probably been treated very badly by other jewelry retailers who call themselves Appraisers but do not have the professional training. Look at the problem through his eyes. He is selling you a branded Diamond with documentation. Why would you want to check up on him? Why did you go to him in the first place?
Wasn't he recommended in the community and if not he must have been known to you as a saller of 8* Diamonds.
Many of you take the attitude that home town sellers are the enemy. They are not. Over these many years I too have attempted to teach our customers the benefit of knowledge of our product.
But this is overkill. You deny the seller in your town his integrity.
These other sellers over The Internet, what will they do for your community ? Ask them...
Is it not worth more money to know you can go to a local jeweler to have the extra service that only they can provide. Free ring cleaning whenever you wish. Checking the Diamond to make sure it is still tight in the setting. Will you send it to "Wink Jones" who I also know personally ? Wink is a good man but is not available in your community. Will another jeweler selling this branded Diamond sell it for less. How much less?
Is the difference worth it. I doubt it.

I love my friends many of whom bought Diamonds from me over the 32 years I was in Freeport NY.
I did not sell a branded diamond. I sold me.
But so that my friends felt secure in my knowledge (and not for me) I always sold a Diamond which I had sent to GIA or EGL in Los Angeles or PGS in Chicago. When I sold my jewelry store I had a database of over 5400 customers who had purchased Diamonds and jewelry from us over the past 32 years
Many of them call us and write us often. We miss then and they miss us. Our was a family relationship. Did they take their jewelry purchase to another person, some of which called themselves appraisers, of course they did. Did I ever lose a sale, no never. Were these appraisers all qualified, no. Some of them were watchmakers, very good at their trade but not knowledgeable about a fine Ruby, Emerald or Sapphire. Did they fess up, NO. Was I lucky, NO.
When necessary I confronted the appraiser with what was his qualifications. Often they would say, Well I have been in the business for over ??? years. That did not make them qualified. I would go into the store with my customer and ask to see a comparable Diamond. Then I would show my customer what was the difference between the "Appraisers" Diamond and my diamond. Often the jewelry appraiser was winging his opinion and just trying to sell his product and destroy my reputation in the process.

Knowledge is great but trying to beat up your local jeweler and treat him as your enemy is not productive. Buy your Gemstone jewelry from someone who is there for you and to service you.

I now have an Internet website to sell off the inventory I remained with after selling my store.
Did I have a guarantee of selling my jewelry store location. Did I have a guarantee of his buying my inventory, no.

I still own my name on and off The Internet.
We have hired a web designer to help us sell our inventory in an auction environment. We tried e-Bay and didn't like all the crazy claims of others.
We didn't like joining people who sell cz Diamonds.
We didn't like people who sell Platinum plated items and called them Platinum. We didn't like people selling Burmese Rubies and then when you got the Rubies found out they were man made or worse yet glass ( and looked like genuine).
We did n't like much of the actions of other sellers on that auction website. So I am spending our hard earned money and creating our own auction website, with integrity.
Our Motto has always been, "Trust is Key". That is what I believe to be important, perhaps I should change our motto to be "Integrity is Key".
Love,
Uncle Marty
 

dpe49

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Messages
26
Our Motto has always been, "Trust is Key". That is what I believe to be important, perhaps I should change our motto to be "Integrity is Key".


"Trust is Key"
"Integrity is Key"
"Blind Trust is Stupidity"

Just my 2 cents!
Not a Newbie to Contracts!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
Besides the fact that this thread started well over a year ago....




I take strong issue with your response Uncle Marty. All this woman had were innocent questions that were not offensive in any manner whatsoever. From what she has shared of her experience, in no way was she attacking him. SHAME ON THAT JEWELER for not treating her with the dignity and respect SHE DESERVED. If I were her I would have been offended by his uncooperation is helping her attain the most basic of information she was looking for. What is sad here is that there are jewelers who take the "defensive" when they do not know the answers which generally results in a backlash on the potential customer and as Leonid pointed out is the result of poor people skills. Every jeweler in the country would love people to purchase multi-thousand dollar jewelery items based on the "trust me" slogan. You will not find that crowd here. This crowd here on PriceScope is one that seriously does their homework and the consumers here have one thing in mind which many jewelers could learn from.... They answer the questions to the best of their ability in a spirit of "cooperation" and try to "help" people and focus on their needs helping them get the best bang for their buck possible. It is impossible to serve someone when you are not even willing to listen to their questions. It's ok to say "I don't know" or "I don't know the answer to your question ... perhaps we can research this for you." People are not necessary looking for the *smartest* person to help them ... just someone who is willing to try.




PS. Don't take my post personally. I'm not saying you would operate like the above jeweler as I do not know you well or know how you operate but your answer to this, to me, is outrageous.
 

NewShiny

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
296
Just in case anyone is interested - here is a bit more info on Mazlow. I'm a big fan . . . can you tell I'm a grad student?



I just found this on the web, it isn't from me or my school or anything. Enjoy!

http://web.utk.edu/~gwynne/maslow.HTM

PS - I agree diamonds are included in at least one of the "need" categories!
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
Marty.....I have to say, too, that I strongly disagree with your comments.




It is *exactly* this type of defensive attitude that causes the public to mistrust jewelers in the first place.




Being a jeweler is about more than just gemstones. It's a sales role, and that takes *skill*.




I would NEVER buy a house without a home inspection. I would NEVER buy a car without learning all of the pertinent information about it. I would never shell out $100 for dinner without knowing what the $100 included or what I'd be served.




You need to understand this: the consumer needs to understand the value of an item in order to feel confident in purchasing it. That need has absolutely *nothing* to do with you or your integrity or how many other people think you're great.




In sales, questions are opportunities to provide more information, to answer potential concerns. They are the roadsigns that tell you what the consumer is thinking/feeling, and they can HELP you make a sale if you handle them gracefully.




I bought my stone from Whiteflash; it's one of their branded ACA stones. Their brand has an excellent reputation and is widely respected here on PS. Knowing that, I *still* asked Brian and Lesley for pictures of the stone, ideal scope images, etc. I did so because *I* feel confident in purchasing when I've done the research.




Brian and Lesley did not interpret my requests as a mistrust of their integrity. Instead, they treated them as an opportunity to show off the wonderful aspects of their stone and make me confident beyond doubt that I was making a great purchase. They treated my questions as an opportunity to educate, and their willingness to respond told me that they are the kind of people *I* want to do business with.




Also, checking documentation and facts isn't indicative of a lack of trust; it's more a confirmation of accuracy. How many times have you gone to the market, and the cashier counts back the change due and realizes he is $1 short? Do you think he did it on purpose? NO. It's an honest mistake, and mistakes happen. Counting change back is a way to catch those honest mistakes.....and so is checking a grading report, etc.




It's truly sad to me that you think a customer's desire for information is a negative thing instead of a positive thing. My desire for information resulted in our spending MUCH more on a stone than we would have otherwise. It made me appreciate why ideal stones are more expensive than the mall stones. It made me SO passionate about diamonds that I will now be a repeat customer throughout my life because I've gained an appreciation for them. It's too bad you don't see that.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Yes, it is too bad she missed that eBay auction that ended a few days ago since she posted this original thread TWO YEARS ago , hopefully she has found a stone and setting since then. Hehe.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
If I asked a jeweler for more information and he didn't give it to me, online or offline, chances are he will lose my sale.




Things have changed from the old way of doing business. The internet can create a more savvy and informed customer, and instead of treating them badly or scoffing at them, jewelers need to take them seriously. Some offline jewelers scoff at the internet and think it's just a bunch of people who don't know what they are talking about. I took a GIA course and let me say that the information and knowledge I gain here from Pscope hands down beats the GIA class ...even though it was introductory...I could have answered the test questions with my eyes closed. And Pscope is free.




Part of why we don't do business with our primary offline jeweler any longer is because they are stuck in the old school mentality. I gave them an IdealScope and they don't even use it. They just trust that their wholesalers are sending them great stuff. They feel like all this new technology and internet stuff is all just mumbo-jumbo. Okay...well I don't think that I need to feel like I am pulling teeth in the future if I want to buy a stone, because I DO like that technology stuff.




Why should I trust anyone up front? Because they own a store or can run a business? Please. I don't think jewelers should be insulted to know that consumers DON'T trust them right off the bat 100% of the time. Let them check out the stone with an appraiser. If it checks out, then you have just *earned* the trust for the future. IMO that's a stronger trust and one that I'd rather have from a customer than blind trust the minute they walk into my store. As long as I have nothing to hide.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
2 year old thread or not, Uncle Marty opened a door.

If a jeweler/diamond seller didn't want to give me info or allow the purchase to be contingent on an independent appraisal, I'd take MY money elsewhere. There are plenty of jewelers who advocate informed buyers. If the jeweler didn't have anything to hide, he had everything to gain by giving DR the info she wanted. That jeweler not only cost himself that one sale, he lost a repeat buyer, and potentially any other people she relates her story too. Who wants to pay for being treated like dirt??
 

Uncle Marty

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
75
et al,
I must have missed something in what I read about the purchase of an 8* Diamond.
Does NOT the diamond come complete with a grading report from the company selling the Diamond to the retailer and he/she in turn shows it to the consumer. The fact that he did not have the report with the Diamond does not mean he tried to pull a "fast one". He just was being truthful because the report was not included when he received the special request for his customer. That often happens. He received the newer Diamond on consignment from the manufacturer.
Had the buyer been willing to wait for the grading report I am sure it was forthcoming.

Do you NOT realize that there is an expense to the jeweler when a Diamond is shipped to him and then
it has to be sent back. Most jewelers pay for the shipping and insurance both ways. Retail customers often think of this service as free.
From the retailers point of view he fulfilled the buyers request and still she wasn't happy.

This retail jeweler had to proove his worthiness before 8* agreed to have him become one of their chosen dealers. I do not believe the jeweler was hiding anything about the Diamond. One bad step and he looses his franchise for this Diamond. Mariahlyn you want to report him to the brand owner.

Did NOT the retail jeweler show her the diamond "in all 4 corners of the store".

How can you compare an Internet seller to a B & M Diamond seller. Of course they must send you all the documentation you request including pictures.
Even the best pictures cannot show the best Diamond. In this case the buyer actually saw the Diamond, not a rendition which might not be accurate.

Marriahlyn your assumption that this unknown jeweler was attempting to misrepresent is terible.
He was not freaked out, he was insulted by the potential buyers attitude of not trusting his integrity. He answered all her questions the day before about the smaller Diamond. I am sure there is another view of what actually happened. Of course no one contacted the seller in Austin Texas.
The fact that he never heard of Bill or Dave does not make him a bad person.

I never sold 8* Diamonds so I don't know the recommended return policies from the brand. I cannot comment about that.

Talk about insulting, Marriahlyn suggesting the jeweler was trying to defraud the buyer.
She "would not have been so nice to him" That I believe.
Why do you think that the B & M store is a thief?

Yes "Blind Trust is Stupid". How many buyers buy Diamonds and jewelry from Internet sellers without checking them out first. Many, was that stupid too.
The 8* Diamond was to come with documentation,And his reputation. That should have been enough for the buyer. We all have seen Internet sellers who use ficticious names and addresses. Take your money and then refuse to return the money as promised. Does that make all Interent sellers bad, I do not think so. I think due diligence is good but accusing this jeweler in Austin Texas ( who I do Not know) of being a thief is also very bad.

Aljdewey, when you bought a Diamond from Whiteflash did you send it to an appraiser for confirmation too. Or did you just accept their word based upon reputation.

I too would never buy a house unless it was checked for problems but when I went to buy that house I would know what comparable houses sell for in that community first.

We can never compare buying a house or a used car to buying a Diamond. We all know real estate agents are the only sellers that appear to represent both the seller and the buyers. Is that considered a conlict of interest. How can they represent both ends of the sale.

Used Car salespeople fit another category.
Not to be discussed by me here. Mariahhlyn would never buy from any of these people.

Information is a positive thing, That I do believe.
I spent my lifetime educatng my customers about the value and specifics of what they are buying.

What bothered me the most is the attitude of some of the people on this thread and on this website that would have you think that all B & M are thieves. They are important members of the community in which you live and have made a large financial investment in that community unlike their competition who feed from that same community with no thought of paying back to that community.

Knowledge is good,learn all you can. Take courses and do all your can but stop treating the retail jeweler like he is a fool or worse.

He is there to serve you and hopefully will always be there for the community. The next time you have local raffle tickets, selling Girl Scout Cookies, need support for the local High School to send a sports team to a Championship game or send your Church group on a trip, or ask for door prizes for the local PTA or any of the hundreds of requests your local jeweler is requested do NOT go to them go directly to your Internet seller. That is only fair.

Uncle Marty
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Uncle Marty...I don't think all B&M jewelers are theives. I think EVERYONE is a thief. Why shouldn't I? It's my hard earned money and I have been burned enough with bad vendor experiences, to know to do the research before I plunk down my money. A vendor has to EARN my trust if they expect me to spend thousands of dollars with them. I don't think that's too much to ask.




As for becoming an EightStar dealer, the average consumer is not going to know what sort of 'stringent' process that EightStar puts a vendor through. And personally I"d rather put them through my own stringent process, why not? That's my perogative.




-----


From the retailers point of view he fulfilled the buyers request and still she wasn't happy.


-----


Actually this is not true. She had asked for him to get the grading report with all the info and he had said YES. Then he didn't have it and didn't offer any explanation as to WHY that was, when she had requested it. How hard is it to get a copy of a cert? My offline jeweler did this. It's not rocket science. Plus no return policy? Ridiculous! That whole thing just reeked of something, maybe it was only the jewelers bad attitude.








Personally I am SO TIRED of hearing B&M jewelers whine whine whine about how people expect so much of them. I'm sorry, but that realy is not my problem as the consumer. If you choose to play the game, then you make a conscious decision to work with the public, all good and all bad. I really don't care about how much it costs the jeweler to get the stone for me to see, why is that my concern as a customer? To be guilted into a sale? I want to see a diamond. The jeweler can get it for me, that's his JOB. I have dealt with this before with other vendors. "I'm sorry your order is delayed, we had to restock the floor before we could make your piece'. Okay HOW is that my problem?




I expect that if I am going to put a large sum of money behind something, you better treat me like I am going to be your most favorite customer ever. Take the good with the bad. Put away the little violins please./idealbb/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif
 

joeysdad

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Messages
12
[/quote]


I agree wholeheartedly with Mara. I ran into a similar situation with an online vendor. I asked about a particular stone that was listed on the vendors website. That stone was already sold, but there was another stone that had just been cut, but was still out of the country. I saw the cert and was very interested in it. I asked the vendor to ship it to an independent appraiser. The diamond didn't perform up to my expectations, so I turned it down. The vendor informed me that they would have to ship the stone back where it came from and it was going to cost them several hundred dollars. Why should I care????? That is their cost of doing business. They choose to operate in that business model, not me. I didn't ask to see twelve stones and have them all shipped from across the globe. I had full intentions of purchasing the diamond had it measured up. Unfortunately, it did not and the vendor was out shipping costs. Not my problem.
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143


----------------

Marty - You STILL don't get it, do you?




The fact that he did not have the report with the Diamond does not mean he tried to pull a 'fast one'. He just was being truthful because the report was not included when he received the special request for his customer.




The problem wasn't that he didn't *already* have the certificate; most of us know that diamonds come in on consignment and that the certificate may follow. The problem was HIS ATTITUDE. Read this again: "(He noticed I was taking notes)....At this point, he crossed his hands and flatly said, 'No. I know what you’re doing.'" Since WHEN is it a crime to research a purchase? Then he has to nerve to question why she wants to send it to an independent appraiser and tells her most of them don't know what they are doing anyway?




Do you NOT realize that there is an expense to the jeweler when a Diamond is shipped to him and then it has to be sent back. Most jewelers pay for the shipping and insurance both ways. Retail customers often think of this service as free.


Wrong again. At that point, she wasn't rejecting the diamond...she was asking for more information. Had he been willing to work with her "well, I won't have the grading report in for a few days, but once I do, you're welcome to peruse it....", there would be NO NEED to send it back. Had he handled it like a professional, it would have likely resulted in a SALE.



From the retailers point of view he fulfilled the buyers request and still she wasn't happy.



The retailer's job isn't done UNTIL the customer is happy. He brought in a stone; she wanted more information. He flatly REFUSED to provide any helpful information or even the reassurance that that it would be forthcoming. Instead he says "I know what you're doing". HE was the mistrustful one here. I suspect that he was afraid she would take the grading report # and then shop around to other 8* carriers. Instead of addressing that head-on, he let his fear and insecurity cause him to react negatively, and it cost him the sale. He refused to provide pricing information. He refused to help on her questions about settings. When she asked a question, he responded with "why do you want to know?"....then he parades to the four corners of the store and then says "There is it - take it or leave it." I don't know where you learned to sell, but that's among the worst treatment I've ever heard about.




Did NOT the retail jeweler show her the diamond 'in all 4 corners of the store'.


Yes, he did. So what? Are you saying that should have been enough and that she's not entitled to see the grading report?



He answered all her questions the day before about the smaller Diamond.




And......so what? They are talking about another diamond now. Are you suggesting she's not entitled to ask about this one, too?




The 8* Diamond was to come with documentation, And his reputation. That should have been enough for the buyer.





Who are you to determine what's "enough" for the buyer? It's not YOUR money being spent; it's hers. If she wants data from the grading report to validate her choosing the stone, then that is what's *enough* for her. His "reputation" doesn't guarantee anything. A jeweler's reputation earns him the *opportunity* to serve a potential client. It's *POLITE customer service* that turns that opportunity into a sale, Marty. I don't buy someone's reputation....I buy the product. The seller's reputation doesn't add dollars to my appraisal.




Aljdewey, when you bought a Diamond from Whiteflash did you send it to an appraiser for confirmation too. Or did you just accept their word based upon reputation.





Of COURSE I sent it to an appraiser.....but not because I didn't trust Whiteflash. If I didn't trust them, they'd have never gotten the sale in the first place. Their reputation is what made me consider them; their SERVICE was what made me purchase from them. For me, getting an appraisal is like getting a second medical opinion.....it helps ME validate my choice and feel that I've gotten value for the money I spent.




I don't purchase based on other people's experiences; their standard may not be what mine are. I buy based on MY experiences.




I too would never buy a house unless it was checked for problems but when I went to buy that house I would know what comparable houses sell for in that community first.



That's fine as a baseline, but what if comparable houses in the community are pest-free and the house you're considering has termites? You wouldn't know that without hiring an inspector first.....just like seeing a grading report.



We can never compare buying a house or a used car to buying a Diamond. We all know real estate agents are the only sellers that appear to represent both the seller and the buyers. Is that considered a conlict of interest. How can they represent both ends of the sale.





Look, I'm not going to debate with you what the best analogy is for this. Pick whatever you like, and we'll go from there. How can real estate sellers represent both ends of the sale? Probably the same way that someone who has a vested interest in a sale can offer to appraise a diamond.




This guy's attitude STUNK.....and it cost him the sale. There is NO excuse for treating a customer this way. She didn't say to him...."well, how do I know the diamond you're showing me an 8*"...nor did she say anything else implying that he was trying to pull a fast one. She asked for information to help her feel comfortable in her buying decision, and he flatly refused because he doesn't like her purchasing style. Fine. It cost him the sale.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
Yep, Uncle Marty, you did miss something.

The jeweler let the buyer see the Cert and everything the FIRST time she was in the store looking at a DIFFERENT diamond. When she came back to look at the SECOND stone with her notepad, the jeweler did not want to furnish any information. Looking at a diamond "in all 4 corners of the store" is not the same as having all the information and making an informed buying decision. If the poster had bought the diamond, she was stuck, regardless. There was no return/refund policy.

Cost to bring a diamond in and ship it back if the customer does not buy?? Approximately $50. Cost to treat the customer like dirt and loose her business for life?? Who knows?? Cost to be nice, provide the information nicely requested, and earn a customer for life?? Priceless!!
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
Oh, and FYI, Marty.....perhaps you should take a look at this thread and see what happens when someone relies on "reputation" instead of doing their own fact-checking.




https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-si2-vs-i1.13101/}




This woman trusted the recommendations of others (reputation), the fact that he'd been in business for 7 years, and that he had no BBB complaints. According to you, this should have been more than enough.




As you can see, it clearly wasn't enough. Thankfully, she wasn't easily dissuaded and ended up with a satisfactory result.




There is NO substitute for one's OWN homework when hard-earned dollars oare on the line, and there is NO excuse for any vendor to refuse a reasonable request for information if it will help a consumer feel confident in his buying decision.
 

diamond_rookie

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
6
Wow, the original thread has been posted over two years old ago, and I’m quite surprised people are still talking about it. Well, just a little update on that lady just in case some of you are still wondering whatever happened to her.

Several weeks after that awful incident and after having so many kind people reach out to help me, I finally did find that diamond. More importantly, I found a true gem in the jewelry industry, Mr. George Blair. I was blessed to have been recommended to Mr. George Blair, another Eightstar dealer, who took the time to find out what I need and went the extra mile to make sure he found the right diamond for me. I can not say enough kind things about this man--the knowledge, patience, and kindness he has shown me during my 2 visits to his shop. Although he was located in Houston and was a good 3 hours drive away from Austin, my husband and I gladly drove there. What we like about him is his people skills, his willingness to work with us and find out what we need, and took the time to educate us. I did end up buying a 0.44 carat Eightstar diamond from him, and I’m very happy with the purchase even though originally I opted for the smaller diamond.

In retrospect, I would have bought that 0.30 carat Eightstar from the first vendor if his attitude was different and more receptive. He did lose a customer and a sell because he never quite establish that trust between customer and vendor because of his lack of professionalism and social skills. With the second vendor, I feel quite the opposite—very much valued and respected. I would gladly drive the extra miles to do business with him.
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
I am so glad to hear everything worked out for you and that in the end you were not turned off to the EightStar diamond itself. It really is a lovely product and we all wish you nothing but the best. Hat's off to Mr. Blair for salvaging the sale and gaining a new client.

Best regards,
 
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