1 Question & 1 Round Diamond

[markymark]

Hi folks,

Question on online dealers: Is there anything an online dealer can provide(firescope, magnified image, etc) that can conclusively verify the quality of a diamond beyond the specs?

Also, Can you please comment on the below diamond. Asking price is $4600.

AGS Cert
Shape BR
Color Grade F
Clarity Grade SI1
Weight 0.924
Measurments 6.24 - 6.27 x 3.88 mm
Proportions
Depth 62%
Table 55%
Girdle 1.0-1.4
Culet PT
Crown Angle 34.4
Pavilion Angle 41.0
Finish
Polish IDEAL
Symmetry IDEAL
Fluorescence N

Thanks!

 

[Mara]

They can offer magnified pictures of the diamond, inclusion pictures, Fire/Light/Image Scope to show light return, BrillianceScope reports, Sarin reports, online copies of the actual certificates from AGS/GIA/EGL etc. Any of the above and with some online vendors, ALL of the above are par for the course. Don't be afraid to ask for what you are seeking in the way of information...a good vendor will help you get it.

People often say they fear shopping online, but I have to honestly say that some of the vendors I have run across on Pscope give you hands down 100% more information than any offline vendor or jeweler I have ever worked with, including the jeweler we have bought multiple items from and bought our e-ring and stone from. I got a Sarin report and to eyeball the stone up close with a loupe. That was about it. Online, I have seen magnified stone images, inclusions in stones, Scope images, Bscope etc..more information than I thought ever possible while in the shopping and/or looking process, and really from this point on could NEVER imagine doing it another way in the future.

BTW that stone looks like a superideal of some sort? The price is superideal too.

It's good for that type of stone, HCA gives it a 1.8 EX which is great....are there other stones for consideration? I would want something with more EX's on the HCA but it's a little tiny hair to split. Also, some say to keep the pav angle below 41. The depth is on the cusp there at 62%, but I'm sure this stone would outperform 95% of the ones out there. IdealScope images would help--they will show light return.

 

[aljdewey]

Very loudly second Mara's comments. A year ago, there's NO way I'd have made a purchase of this magnitude online.




Today.......I AM in the process of purchasing a diamond, and I won't consider any other place EXCEPT online! The prices are better, there is greater access to good stones, and there is far more visible SOLID testimonials here.




It's the way to go. Honestly.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Dittos to Mara's comments. Maybe the pricing is reflected in the slight hits on the HCA. Sounds like a great performer, but that call ultimately lies with your eyes. Numbers are great screening tools to help weed out poor performers. From there it comes down to the personality of the diamond and does it appeal to your eye.

Check out other people's buying experiences by searching the Vendor's name in past threads. Contact the Vendor and ask for any and all information you are wanting. I bought on-line and chatted with several PS Vendors. They are great folk. Very knowledgeable and friendly. They will work hard to provide you with all the info you want to make an informed buying decision.

 

[adamas]

online dealers can't supply a clear enough image to support claims. We occasionally see stones that cert spec out better then a lower spec stone with the lower appearing nicer to the unaided eye.
Certificates should supply enough information to support cut claims. With a plot diagram clarity can be varified. Color cannot be by image. Possibly a colorimeter reading could be supplied.
The Diamond you are asking about has an AGS cert. Experience say's AGS certs are of the highest standard and all seems to support the ideal classification. On an AGS cert there should also be a AGS grade 000 to 10.

 

[magna2]

markymark,

There are quite a few on-line vendors that will provide more information than you'll ever get from traditonal off-line vendors. Typically when you go to a B&M store, they will show you the cert, perhaps the little sticky with the crown and pavillion angle information, and a loupe to look at the diamond. Well since the typical consumer is a novice in diamond purchase, he/she would not know how to utilize a loupe properly anyway and therefore not see what they should be looking for. The B&M store vendor typically is not going to pull out the microscope for you to look at the diamond - IMO they don't want you to be fully aware of the diamond's flaws. To them, a little bit of knowledge is dangerous and scare off the potential buyer if the buyer is able to see the inclusions.

So whether you buy on-line or off, make sure you are working with someone that you feel comfortable with and one who is willing to provide the necessary information for you to make an educated purchase.

 

[Mara]

Adamas..I have seen some amazingly clear images from online vendors of closeups of stones...better than my little eyeball on a loupe could get me! Some vendors do take the time and put the effort in to really try to 'show' the stone to the virtual customer.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/3/2003 9:20:42 AM adamas wrote:
online dealers can't supply a clear enough image to support claims. We occasionally see stones that cert spec out better then a lower spec stone with the lower appearing nicer to the unaided eye.
Certificates should supply enough information to support cut claims. With a plot diagram clarity can be varified.

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Online dealers can't supply a clear enough image to support claims? How about B&M dealers, most of whom can't supply *any* image of *any* clarity.

Let's get really serious for a minute here and tell it how it is......online dealers tend to give a HELL of a lot more information that B&M dealers do. If you deal with the reputable vendors online, not only will you get a grading report that is damn near spot on to seeing it in person.......but you actually get tons of images at various degrees of magnification to show you EXACTLY what you are seeing.

Now let's talk about B&M dealers. Most of the cannot even produce a grading report at all! If they do, it's a poor quality photocopy that looks like a fourth-generation fax......not helpful when the inclusions are plotted in *red*.

Image clarity? The online vendors will take images are so magnified that a blind person stands a chance at viewing them. Compare that the the B&M store, where they hand you a crappy $15 dirty loupe.....and you're telling us that's supposed to be more "representative"?

Sorry.....I disagree.

 

[markymark]

I hope this image works, I'm a first timer when it comes to HTML. Anyway, this my best shot at showing you all some inages. I'd really like to know what everyone thinks about the diamond and its price. I am not too concerned with the HCAs if I am paying a good price for what I am getting. No one that ever sees this diamond will look at it and be able to say "I bet that thing got more VGs than EXs on the HCA." I feel comfortable buying a diamond I've never seen because I can't recognize the differences between a really great diamond and an average one when they are next to each other anyway.

 

[markymark]

 

[markymark]

 

[markymark]

 

[markymark]

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hey Marky!

Send the pics to Mara or Colored Gemstone Nut. They are both wiz's at fixing pics so they can be posted.

Apologies in advance to both Mara and Josh for offering up your services! HeeHee

 

[aljdewey]

AHHHHH ... I don't GET IT.




Those pictures were just here two minutes ago....what happened?

 

[fire&ice]

IMHO, the diamond is only as good as the picture taker. Sorry, unless you really know what to look for & have a control in the pic, pics can be deceiving. In other words, they don't tell the whole picture.

 

[Mara]

Here's your pictures Mark..

 

[Mara]

 

[Mara]

 

[Mara]

Nice IS image!

 

[Mara]

Inclusion on the edge can be easily covered by a prong!

 

[Mara]

 

[markymark]

Thanks so much, Mara. So now the question becomes:

-Can this diamond be conclusively judged with the information provided?
-What is its fair value given what you know?

Thanks everybody

 

[magna2]

markymark,

Pictures and numbers can never replace seeing the diamond personally; it is good for weeding out candidates so that you can narrow down choices for having diamonds shipped for personal viewing under various light conditions so that you, the buyer, can determine what you really like and whether the diamonds speaks to you.

The price is fair for the color and clarity. IMO, this may be a borderline performer given that the depth of 62% and pavillion angle of 41 degrees. Since a diamond is never truely symmetrical, a slight change in the pavillion angles can have geat effect on the diamonds performance. That is, if the pavillion angle number was 41.1 degrees instead of 41 degrees, the diamond becomes much less of a performer yet still garner the designation of AGS ideal.

Having said all that, if you are serious about buying this diamond, then have it sent to a local independent appraiser or one of the appraisers associated with PriceScope for an assessment. Let your eyes decide.

 

[valeria101]

I am not a diamond cutter, but something tells me that controlling for 0.1 of a degree on a dozen facets will hardly have a ton of visual impact: the senzitivity of the numeric model doen not make it a perfect tool (usefull, salt & all though it is).

The pictures show: reasonably discrete inclusions, nice H&A symetry , good light return... all in all, a desirable stone.

Just one Q: Mara, what inclusion is that? It looks like whatever those are, inclusions go well beneath half of that facet and extend under a few more (ok, the plot is blurred, but I think I see some more red lines along minor facets' joints around there). I hope this man does not want a tension setting, but are prongs going to chip that included girdle? No, I do not know what I am talking about here (all I can see is one of those inclusions, from the top) hopefully this detail will get some attention and, hopefully, I am wrong. After all, I2 diamonds get set all the time (don't ask me why) and they seem to hold their breath... just making things sound worse here.

 

[valeria101]

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On 12/4/2003 6:06:15 PM Mara wrote:


Nice IS image!

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This is it! I was looking all morning for an occasion to plead with you, Mara, to restore that good old avatar! I trully miss it...

Just imagine, your all-red IS image in this avatar will set riduculously inflated expectations for all poor diamond buyers to ever hount PS from now on!

Mercy!!!!

 

[aljdewey]

Something to note on this Idealscope image. Do you see how the background is pinkish?

In order for idealscopes to truly show the diamond properly the source has to be *white* light. The background on this image should be white, and it's not. If more direct white light were sourced, that would affect the Idealscope image.

I point this out not to suggest this isn't a nice diamond....it looks like it could be very nice. I point it out to reinforce Magna's point that these tools are not conclusive. They are aids to help weed out poor performers, but that's not the same thing as proving what will be a strong performer.

That determination needs to be made by seeing it (or having an appraiser look at it for you.)

 

[aljdewey]

Look at this IS comparatively and see that the background is WHITE.




When Mara and I first saw this one, we were surprised....thought it was a little leaky and we didn't expect that. But if you were to diffuse the light source as the other image below is.....this stone would appear saturated red all around.

 

[aljdewey]

..........compared to the background on this one, which is pink. It definitely changes the flavor of the idealscope. In order to compare IS images, they really need to be lit in the same way.

 

[Chrisk327]

Hey, There is a .921 H&A VS2 H color for $4600 at GOG that I looked at. They have some great pics online. It was a real performer in person.

I ended up going with a 1.23 VS2 H that wasn't H&A b.c it was a solid performer, not as sparkly as the H&A but still very very good, b.c of no leakage.

I would have bought the .921 in a heartbeat over a 1.0, if this 1.23 didn't show up at such a good price even so, it was a close call.

Chris