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1.09 J or 1.3 M OEC or ?? Help me decide!

K

klokkeblomst

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
41
Hi there! I've been a longtime lurker and have learned so much from the knowledgeable people here. Now I need to reach out for a little advice.

I recently got a 1.09 J VVS2 (GIA cert) OEC for what I feel is a fair price (just under 5k). It is still within the return period. It faces up really white and is a lovely little sparkler. The faceting pattern is really pretty, I think it may be a later OEC because it looks like perfectly symmetrical tiny flower petals in the center and there is a medium culet. I am happy with this diamond, but...

- It's really white. Looking from the top I would have guessed it was a G or H. I wanted a warm OEC, and this is maybe less warm than I wanted. I know that probably sounds weird. My husband likes and prefers how white it is.
- Its sparkles are achromatic. It flashes a lot of white and grey, but not much color.
- The culet is only really visible through a loupe. The magnified pictures I saw of the diamond before purchasing led me to believe the culet would be larger.I think a visible open culet is a huge part of the charm of OECs. I don't know if a new setting would help this.
- Now that I've worn it, I think I really want a 1.25 as my "forever" size diamond.
- I don't have the funds to put it in a setting I'd like and I won't for a while. It's in a super ugly (to me) 6-prong knife edge setting now.

If I keep this diamond, I would like to set it in this, to give it more presence and sparkle: http://www.greenwichjewelers.com/shop/designers/beverley-k/products/beverley-k-round-halo-engagement-ring-with-pave-diamond-details

This weekend I was out looking at settings and unexpectedly came across an OEC - 1.3 M S12. It just grabbed my eye from across the case and demanded I stop looking at settings and look at it, instead!

Things that drew me to it:
- I love the spread of the 1.3 - the size feels perfect.
- Even though the diamond is noticeably warmer, it threw off huge colored flashes of light. Total disco ball kozibe love. I could not stop staring.
- Very pretty faceting, although less delicate and slightly less symmetrical than the 1.09. Beautiful culet.
- It's a $1500 less than my 1.09!!!
- With the difference I could afford a nice setting (the 1.3 is also set in a plain 6-prong solitaire - meh!)

Things I don't love:
- It has a black inclusion in the pavilion that I could easily see in the loupe and when zooming in on the pics I took. I did not notice at all from a regular viewing distance, however. (Blinded by sparkles!)
- I worry if the color is too warm. It's been appraised by a reputable independent local lab as an M, but maybe it's darker since it's not GIA certed? My husband is not nuts about the warmth, but agrees it is much more colorful.
- It's not certed and I have no real specs on it. I just know I like how it reacts to light.

I don't think the setting I like for the 1.09 will work as well for 1.3, I think the melee will really contrast with the warmth. If I get the 1.3, I will probably set it in a simple milgrain bezel setting with an open gallery to let in lots of light to the pavilion. This is the kind of look for a setting that I think would work with this stone: http://www.pricescope.com/blog/jewel-week-beauty-bezel

Here are some pictures:

The 1.09 in indirect sunlight. This is about as colorful as it gets. I do love the flowery facet pattern.
109_0.jpg

Both diamonds on my finger in the jewelry store (the 1.30 photographed darker than it seemed IRL):
13and19_a.jpg
13and19_b.jpg

And for size reference - a random K-colored 1.03 RB set in a ring very similar to the Beverly K I'd choose to set the 1.09 in. I wonder if setting the 1.09 would make me feel better about the smaller size. I don't think the Beverly K would work well with the 1.30 because of melee contrast. I would probably set either stone in unplated white gold.
bevkrose.jpg

What are your thoughts? Should I go for one over the other? Should I choose neither, return the 1.09 and try to find a flashier, larger stone with better color and clarity in my price range (doesn't feel very likely)?
 
The M looks better-cut than the first stone. Just my $.02.
 
There is nothing wrong with the stats on the 1.09, lots and lots of people prefer older cuts that face up whiter, ones that have a distinct flower petal pattern rather than rustic and old looking..... Having said that the new stone looks to have a smaller table in the picture and is a much chunkier style cut and facet pattern, which is what I think of as an older looking style of OEC. Being handcut they come in all sorts of flavours, if you love the lower colour and can live with the inclusions then trust your eyes, the only thing that might be worth doing if you decide on the M is to get it appraised by a decent Independent appraiser that way you will know exactly what you are getting and if it comes back lower than an M or an SI2 then you might be able to negotiate a better price. I like the colour of the J better, but prefer the cut of the M in your pictures.
 
I like the J. Can you get an ASET? That snowflake pattern is to die for. And the spread is fantastic.

I personally am fine down to L, but M-N is too tinted for me, even for an OEC. Or not tinted enough (as I like S-Z stones too) depending on how you look at it. And the inclusion would be a deal breaker for me. I'd ask the jeweler to send it to GIA to see what it comes back, color wise. And pay an extra 350 more for it if it comes back in range for the color from them and you still want it.
 
Here's my advice. You aren't in love with the J. But you don't love the M either, you like the price of it and the spread, but the inclusion is bugging you.

So here's what I say:

Buy this one, while you are in your return period for the J from JA. And compare them :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Natural-Loose-European-Cut-Diamond-1-03CT-VS2-Clarity-J-Color-100-Real-Genuine-/261467930481?pt=Loose_Diamonds&hash=item3ce0b3ff71 Small table, high crown, nice faceting. I guarantee you it is warmer than J.

6.5 mm so it has great spread as well. And it's VERY budget friendly. And would look great in the airline halo setting you have in mind.

14 day return policy, less a 10% re-stocking fee. But since I am positive it is warmer than J, you will be able to get your full purchase price back as "item not as described."

I would best offer 3,400 and in the comments for the offer put, "No restocking fee of 10% if buyer is not happy with the item for any reason. Buyer pays return shipping."

Just to cover you. That way, no matter what all you are out is return shipping.
 
Ok...so this is all from a few still photos so take it with a big grain of salt...the J looks a little dead to me. Could be the pictures
though.

I like the faceting pattern much better on the M. That would be my choice.

Edit - strange...it looks nice in the link and it has a high crown so you would think you would get some colored flashes???
 
love the M -very lively! but in the end, all that matters is what you think :wink2:
 
Thanks all for your thoughts and advice. There are a lot of things I like about the J - the pretty facets, and I do like the glowy white color in certain lighting conditions when the facet pattern is clear. In other lighting it looks almost hazy because of the whiteness. My pictures are pretty bad, I'm going to visit the M again today and I'll try to get better pictures.

What I'm trying to understand about the J, is that the specs do seem like it would be fiery. But it's not. The J scintillates like crazy, it just isn't fiery. What causes the difference?

It's not a value judgement - I don't think the J is a bad diamond at all, I actually like a lot of things about it, but I'm learning I have a personal preference for more fire.
 
Gypsy, I know exactly what you mean. I seem to prefer less than K or more than O-P. I think in the lowest ranges, the color looks more purposeful? Body color of course plays a part, I think a vanilla-ish diamond is prettier than a murky one. Thanks for the link to the ebay diamond and the advice - I've had some not-so-great ebay experiences, but it's a good option to have.
 
Personally based on the photos I really like the M. I've looked at some Ms IRL and I didn't mind the lower color but everyone may not. Since neither diamond is doing it for you maybe just keep looking. Something will come up.
 
If ebay isn't for you (and it isn't for everyone, though if you put that comment I wrote out in the best offer you'll be fine) then I suggest you keep looking.

Neither one is right for you.

So i suggest returning the J, it will find a good home with someone else. And look for a different stone that works better for you. :wavey:
 
Have you see this one: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/12019/ it's an L by EGL so you'd have to ask Jon what the GIA grade would be and he'll compare it to the Laboratory Master set for you. The clarity is great. The ASET shows a lovely performance, the price is very good for your budget and the spread is right at 6.5 which is the same as the J so it would look great in the setting you have picked out.

Might be worth asking for a video of the stone. And if you like it, get it.
 
Well, I kept going back to visit the M. The sweet jeweler in the shop even brought in a couple more OECs for me to look at because I kept coming back. There is something about that M that just appeals to me in the way nothing else has. The fire and faceting are just how I want them, and I really like having over 7mm of spread. I've even had fun designing a setting to work with the M color (with a lot of help from reading threads here!)

So the J is going back today. It's a beautiful little sparkly stone, very white for a J, with a very pretty faceting pattern. I think James Allen had it for a great price (~$4800 before discounts). So if someone wants it, it will be there in a couple of days. :) JA gets some interesting OECs in, you just have to type "old miner" in the search box to find them.

Thank you all for your help! I look forward to coming back and showing you in the SMTB thread once the M is all set!
 
Based on your pix I find the M much better cut, very attractive stone with a lot of fire. The warmth is a personal thing, I personally own a J which is fine but if I wanted more tinted I would go fancy or U-V at least but again please do remember this is entirely subjective. You already stated you loved the warmth and honestly I feel that you would be happier with the 1.3 and that is what matters. I also love the finger coverage especially if you have it set in that beautiful milgrain bezel you showed pix of. Now, if you purchase the M, do make sure there is a good return policy and have the diamond certified by a trusted lab like GIA, I would highly recommend that, it is one thing to love a stone but another to make sure that you are buying what is stated. I am not so sure a pavilion crystal would be such a big deal unless it bothers you and/or it doubles, triples, etc. and is reflected into other facets of the stone. So far on the pix the stone looked very nice to me. Remember though to have the specs verified, we cannot be sure based on only a few pix about color, clarity, etc.
 
Thanks OVincze for the advice. I can't see any inclusion at all from 3 inches away, so I think it's eye-clean enough for me. What I thought I saw in the picture I haven't captured in pictures again or seen with my eye, so it must have been a reflection.

The jeweler said that if it appraises as something different than what he says it is I can return it. Once the stone is out of it's current setting, I was planning on taking it to an independent lab. Can you tell me which service I should get?

http://www.pacificgemlab.net/appraisal-rates/

Is it grading that I need? Or will just an appraisal confirm that the diamond is what I've been told it is?
 
I think the M is a great choice! Can't wait to see your finished ring.
 
Hi OP, don't give up on a delicate antique setting...looks like your budget may be bigger now and I've seen some pretty impressive setting design recs and suggestions on this board. So, if you want, perhaps we could try? If nothing feels quite right, you can always do the simple delicate bezel you have in mind. Give us some inspiration looks (like the one Beverly K you originally posted) and a budget to work from.
 
Hi luvdajules, I actually decided on a setting very similar to the Beverly K, but without the airline and milgrain.:)

I custom ordered a bezel halo from Stuller in uplated white gold with J-color melee. It's the same price as the BeverlyK, but with a little more bling, and the chance to customize it a little. I waffled back and forth between J full cuts or H single cuts, but decided on the full cuts after reading many threads here. Now I'm just waiting... :)

Still wondering, should I get the diamond graded, or is an appraisal enough?
 
Is the 1.09 clean, like fresh from an ultrasonic, in those pics? Dirty diamonds don't sparkle like clean ones, especially in jewellery lighting. That might explain part of the difference in optics you observed. ETA soap haze in the pavilion can collect in only days and I spot lighting it creates the hazy look you described.

Does the 1.3 have a lab report? If not, then assume it is more tinted than M. It looks very very warm in those images. Also the Si2 rating needs verification. If that stone is an OP I1 by GIA standards then it is worth much less, for example.

Did you see the 1.3 in any lighting Other than the jewelry store?
 
No, DreamerD, the J wasn't clean. I did have it cleaned the second time I went in and comparing side by side the M outperformed the J (to my taste, anyway). But you're correct, these phone pics with the dirty J stack the deck against it.

The J is already on it's way back to JA, and I've put a deposit on the M contingent to an appraisal. I'm trying to find out if I should get it graded, also? I think it very well could be an N or O, but I also think it may be larger than 1.3 (It averages 7.3 in diameter). I talked the jeweler down on the original price, also.

I linked to the lab I'll be using above. Which service should I be requesting in order to verify the specs on this diamond?
 
OP, where do you live? Sorry if I missed that. If I were you I would use GIA. For your protection it would be best to order a lab report from one of the best and yes I would get grading done for sure. Based on the specs we know you are paying a fair price, you never said how much exactly but you did state that you paid less than 5000 for the J and that this stone was 1500 less and minus the discount you negotiated. That is a great price for a 1.3 so in all honestly even if your stone comes back a color grade or two lower, you got a fair deal in my opinion but we do want to ensure the specs are not way worse especially clarity in this case. It would be helpful to have a clarity plot because then you could ensure that the stone does not have inclusions affecting the integrity of the stone and know where they are located which is very important when the stone is removed and reset. Of course a good jeweler can see this with a loupe too when setting your stone but you said the sale was contingent on verification of specs stated so take advantage of this opportunity while you can. The only problem with GIA is that they do have very lenghty turnaround times, expedited service may be too costly to you. I am not sure what turnaround times AGS has, it may also be worth checking with them. I am not saying that the lab you picked will necessarily give you inaccurate information, that is not always the case and it is also possible that whoever appraised the stone graded it right but we simply do not know this for sure, which is why I would use the services of one of the two most reliable labs. Lesser known labs tend to be (much) more lenient with their grades and here we all think do not use EGL but this lab you referenced I am not familiar with at all.
 
I'm not concerned at all about PGL, and I'm not going to send my diamond to GIA - it's not worth the hassle or expense to me.

I ended up getting the M for $3000.

I was trying to figure out if it was worth an extra $100 to have it graded, or if all the specs I need to determine if I will keep it would be in the appraisal? I would only return it if size or clarity was way off, and if color is way off I would use that to negotiate a further discount. Won't the appraisal have that information? I'm not sure what is included in the grading besides a Sarin report. Does plotting come with grading?
 
My jeweler just weighed the M and it's actually 1.4 carats. So far, so good!
 
You will need to ask the appraiser you will use about the information they will provide in the report. For the price you paid you are "safe" if the stone is very very tinted, so I am not so concerned there. Let us know how it turns out!
 
klokkeblomst|1400783144|3678299 said:
I'm not concerned at all about PGL, and I'm not going to send my diamond to GIA - it's not worth the hassle or expense to me.

I ended up getting the M for $3000.

I was trying to figure out if it was worth an extra $100 to have it graded, or if all the specs I need to determine if I will keep it would be in the appraisal? I would only return it if size or clarity was way off, and if color is way off I would use that to negotiate a further discount. Won't the appraisal have that information? I'm not sure what is included in the grading besides a Sarin report. Does plotting come with grading?
Click to expand...

You can have it graded by GIA for that price, I would not pay for grading from any other lab. A simple appraisal is enough for insurance and since the price was low for carat weight, you may not need more information.
 
I can get an appraisal and grading same day without shipping or insurance at PGL. I cannot get that from GIA for any price. :) The owner is listed on the Pricescope appraisers list. Thanks for letting me know I only need the appraisal, though! I may get the grading done for my own interest, I'd love to have a plot and Sarin report.

I'm going to go get pictures of the M out of the setting tomorrow!
 
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