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1.01ct Ideal F VS2 GIA Strong Blue Advice

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Propter Hoc

Propter Hoc

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
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44
Evening folks,

I''ve been reading and researching everything I could get my hands on for the past week or two in preparation for making what will certainly prove to be one of the larger (and certainly the most sentimental) purchases of my lifetime thus far. I''ve found PS to be unprecedentedly helpful in the decision making process. I''ve taken the time to assess my budget and have set a hard line at $6800.00 for the stone. I have more work to do learning about and deciding on a ring/setting and at this point I''m just trying to keep on task. I found the stone described below and I am intrigued by it for a lot of reasons. I''m attracted to stones with Medium to Strong Blue fluor after reading all that members/experts had to say on the matter. I want a 1ct+/- stone, Ideal round, and find cut to be a major distinguishing characteristic for me. I did HCA on this "ideal" stone and resulted a 2. Despite being brand spanking new to this forum I am counting on you folks for feedback to help me make an informed/confident decision or to point me in the right direction. Will I be disappoint with a stone that HCA''s 2? That aside, this stone has everything I am looking for. Look forward to anyone who has time for a quick response, I''ll be making a decision within 24hrs. Thanks, James

Spread: 6.34-6.39 x 4.01
Depth: 63percent
Table: 56percent
Crown: 34.5deg
Pavil: 41deg
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Wt: 1.01ct
Girdle: Med to Slightly Thick
Fluor: Strong Blue
Cut, Polish, Symmetry: Excellent
HCA: Ex-Vg-Vg-G
Report: GIA
Asking: 6.6k

Questions:
-Would you buy this diamond? Why (not)?
-Is the HCA concerning?
-Is it safe to buy a strong blue online without seeing it in person? (30day returns ok)
-What is holding this stone back?
-General comments/completely-personal opinions are VERY welcomed!

Thanks again! Sorry it is so long, I''m nervous!
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Hopefully more will reply, but based on the comparables, and your ability to return the stone with ample time...I''d say it looks very promising.
 
I'd rather see ex-ex-ex-vg on the HCA.

Here's a possibility: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3917/ It's a .93 that faces up within .02 mm of the choice you've got (i.e., they should appear exactly the same size to the human eye, that's too small a difference for you to perceive). It's F, VVS2, AGS Ideal, ideal polish & symmetry, strong blue fluor (it's a twin for your stone, with a better cut grade) for a wire price of $6809. It scores 1.1 on HCA, ex-ex-ex-vg, within both AGS Ideal and GIA Excellent.

ETA: Also note that, although the Whiteflash ACAs do not have fluor (which pains me), you can get both ACA and Expert Selection stones of comparable color grade and ideal cut in the .9-1.0 range in your price point, which would also be lovely.
 
Date: 1/21/2008 10:23:05 PM
Author: milton333
I''d rather see ex-ex-ex-vg on the HCA.

Here''s a possibility: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3917/ It''s a .93 that faces up within .02 mm of the choice you''ve got (i.e., they should appear exactly the same size to the human eye, that''s too small a difference for you to perceive). It''s F, VVS2, AGS Ideal, ideal polish & symmetry, strong blue fluor (it''s a twin for your stone, with a better cut grade) for a wire price of $6809. It scores 1.1 on HCA, ex-ex-ex-vg, within both AGS Ideal and GIA Excellent.

ETA: Also note that, although the Whiteflash ACAs do not have fluor (which pains me), you can get both ACA and Expert Selection stones of comparable color grade and ideal cut in the .9-1.0 range in your price point, which would also be lovely.
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Sweet! Just wanted to add that if anyone asks her what size that diamond is, the correct answer is "One Caret!".
 
Date: 1/21/2008 9:45:14 PM
Author:Propter Hoc
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Questions:
-Would you buy this diamond? Why (not)? Based only on the information here and not having seen the stone....no, I wouldn''t buy it because of the depth. It faces up smallish for its weight. You''d have to have it evaluated to determine if the depth negatively affects performance.

-Is the HCA concerning? The HCA is a weeding tool and not a selection tool. That said, though, there are stones available that are more likely to perform well, so I''d probably rather spend my time with a better potential stone to begin with.

-Is it safe to buy a strong blue online without seeing it in person? (30day returns ok) It is safe IF you have a vendor you can trust to eyeball it and confirm that it''s not oily/milky OR you have a generous return policy (as you noted). Most fluor stones aren''t problematic, so I''d personally feel comfortable doing so. In fact, I did....I bought a strong blue stone from Wink Jones on his assurance that it was fine, and I wasn''t disappointed.

-What is holding this stone back? It''s not in the ''sweet spot'' most cut freaks would prefer do to smallish spread.
 
Whatever.

(The depth and blue are getting you the discount...and, yes, reducing the the diameter in the process, while giving you an honest carat, to boot).

If it's from a local vendor, that's a bonus.

In an ideal world, you'd compare it to the GoG mentioned. You do want to like what you get, and feel you've optimized.

But...appraisers, in my view, can best help you only in making a comparison. So, don't count on one looking at the one you mentioned, and giving you a comparative opinion without actually having a comparable in hand. Of course, with two in hand...that would of course be interesting.

(Edited to add...) on a second reading, I see you haven't seen this one yet. If it IS another internet vendor, anyway, there are certainly advantages to working with a vetted vendor like GOG, and further, advantages to AGS0 certification, which the other suggested option does have. It's nice to have options. Still...if your original option is from a local vendor bring it in...that would provide an edge for me...and I'd further consider what I could do to compare it to other options, including the one mentioned above.
 
Date: 1/21/2008 10:23:05 PM
Author: milton333
I''d rather see ex-ex-ex-vg on the HCA.


Here''s a possibility: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3917/ It''s a .93 that faces up within .02 mm of the choice you''ve got (i.e., they should appear exactly the same size to the human eye, that''s too small a difference for you to perceive). It''s F, VVS2, AGS Ideal, ideal polish & symmetry, strong blue fluor (it''s a twin for your stone, with a better cut grade) for a wire price of $6809. It scores 1.1 on HCA, ex-ex-ex-vg, within both AGS Ideal and GIA Excellent.


ETA: Also note that, although the Whiteflash ACAs do not have fluor (which pains me), you can get both ACA and Expert Selection stones of comparable color grade and ideal cut in the .9-1.0 range in your price point, which would also be lovely.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for this suggestion! It is now one of my favorites. I like the cut considerably more than the cut of the option I had selected. Though it is actually a bit outside my price point at $7047 (bank wire is not an option for a number of reasons including rewards, safety/accountability of a cc transaction, and a desire to "spread it around" a little) I am taking a very serious look at it as it presents much closer to what I feel is my personal "ideal." I''ll keep this thread up-to-date as I the situation unfolds. Thank you all again for your feedback and anyone else who feels the desire to chime in is certainly welcomed to do so (esp. the "who''s whos" - I''m a pretty confident person, but this has been one of the more intimidating experiences I''ve had).

James
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Milton333 and aljdewey,

Just moments ago, after taking another day to consider my "top 3" contenders, I placed a deposit on the stone you suggested from GOG. I found both of your suggestions and criticism to be spot on both in technical accuracy and perceived understanding of what I personally was looking for in a stone. I similarly find the stone I''ve reserved to have greater potential to perform well, it faces up nearly the same (not sure if it is actually within .02mm), and scores ex-ex-ex-vg on the HCA "weeding tool." I''m looking forward to seeing the "strong blue" for myself. If there is interest, I will keep folks up-to-date and post pics when I can. Thanks again and please know that when I think back on what I went through selecting this diamond, I will remember the two nice folks at Pricescope who were a part of what I''m sure will be one "S" and my most special memories. Buying diamonds turns out to be so exciting I''m thinking about sharing what I''ve learned with my friends in the "marriageable" age bracket so that hopefully their process can be much more streamlined (streaming right past the mall stores) process than mine has been. I also started a thread about the ring I''m looking for. Surprise surprise, much more invaluable feedback to be had =)

All the best,
James
 
James, what a nice post.
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I hope you''re happy with your diamond. It looks like a dandy!
 
I apologize in advance if I am a little wordy at times. I believe in giving credit where credit is due and I am somewhat of a connoisseur of customer service. I tried to summarize below for those who value conciseness.

I just got off the phone with Jon from Good Old Gold. Speaking with him was such an encouraging experience I feel compelled to post about it. First, I am on the west coast and hadn''t done the time zone math before calling. I reached GOG after business hours. Their answering system let me know they were technically closed, but rather than the "click" that usually follows from banks or any major retail store I was given the option to ring through anyway. I gave it a try and Jon answered almost immediately. Rather than the "*ahem* Sir, it is past closing time" I am sure I would have been "privileged" to experience at many (certainly not all) B&Ms, Jon seemed genuinely excited to spend time talking with me about the stone I''d selected. He really sounded like he knew my particular selection without having to dig through a cabinet full of sales records. He had even read my post here at PS that led to my decision. I was made to feel at ease and like the level of knowledge I''ve acquired over the past couple weeks (though I realize it is just a toe into an ocean of material available) was sufficient and respected. All this is quite the opposite of the experience I had shopping local mall, chain, and "galleria" stores before I knew even the first thing about what I was doing.

Overall, I could not be more pleased both with the advice I received here at PS and the level of customer service and professionalism immediately evident at GOG. Though I cannot yet offer my impression of the stone I''ve yet to lay eyes on, I have confidence that someone much more experienced than I am has done just that for me and shared with me their honest opinion.

BRIEFLY: Good Old Gold, Professional, Respectful, Accessible, Genuine.

I will post my impression of the stone once I''ve seen it and had the opportunity to view it in as many different lighting/qualitative conditions as I can.

James
 
how about "a little over 1?"
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James,

Just for our benefit to see into your process...want to say anything further about the first post in this thread, the vendor, and why that''s out of the running. I''m glad, of course, to see the process working the way it should, and your being happy with how it''s going forward.

Regards,
 
Sure thing, Ira. The first post (the BN stone) was very exciting to me at first look and I am sure it is probably a great stone. I chose the GOG stone because the diameter of the stone is nearly indistinguishable from the BN stone, the cut of the BN stone is a little deep while the cut of the GOG stone I feel has more potential to be a high performer based on all the tools which are available to me at this point, and the clarity is actually a bit better. Otherwise the stones have identical color, fluor, and grading.

All that aside, my request to BN for more information about their stone turned up a polite but indefinite "we can''t provide that info, sorry" reply while at GOG a veritable plethora of information was presented to me before I ever felt the need to make an inquiry. I have my doubts about whether or not BN even utilizes the tools internally that GOG made available to me personally.

When I finally did talk to GOG on the phone, they offered me even more information (about their performance tests) than I even knew would/should be available. I am convinced most retailers do not have, nor share, that information. I viewed an IS/DiamXRay image, the gem adviser model, microscopic images and a AGS lab report, a H&A viewer image, Helium (did my best with this complicated report) and GIAFacetware reports, and though I could not get the Sarin software to install I was pleased that it was made available should I want to troubleshoot my (probably Vista related) local problems.

In the end it came down to confidence for me. I was confident in my purchase because I felt like, though I could not see it in my hand before making my decision, I felt like I had "seen enough" to know with relative certainty what I was getting in to. The price of the two stones is comparable for my purposes, but I feel like the one I selected has better "potential" to be a performer. The 100% guarantee from both retailers helps put my mind at ease regardless of which choice I made.

The stone should arrive tomorrow and I just can''t wait. I''ll let you know if what I see when I open the package meets all my expectations (which will certainly exceed my gf''s). I''m a bit of an adrenaline junkie myself (snowboarding, SCUBA, fire/EMS, etc) and this has been quite the fix for me. There isn''t a lot you can do to keep me inside for a week but this process has been one of the exceptions.

James
 
Congrats, James. I know Jonathan is an adrenaline junkie, too...but that aside...your story is typical of what is frequently read here. Congrats!
 
Lisa,

That was a consideration of mine. In the end, I determined that I/we value quality and performance over the "visible from low-flying aircraft" factor. For our (casual) purposes, this stone will pass all the highly technical "1ct Ring" scrutiny I feel she may receive during her day-to-day goings and comings.

Because of the depth of the original stone, I don''t think the diameter of the two will even prove to have been visually distinguishable. Also, as in my post above, I wanted a product I could feel confident in BEFORE I ever saw it, and CERTAIN after viewing.

James
 
Loving this story so far, James. I''m looking forward to pictures after the stone arrives, and hoping that you can get some good sunlight/UV shots showing that stong blue flour at work.
 
I''m hoping so, too =) I''m a little into photography as well (amateur) and have been doing some reading on techniques for photographing diamonds. I have a Nikon D40X which has always served well for my purposes. Though my girlfriend has always been more interested in macro than me (I prefer landscape and portrait), I think I''ve learned enough from watching her and looking at her shots to be able to pull something off (along with the online material I''ve seen). Photographing fluorescence should be an interesting experience. I can''t quite think of anything I''ve done in the past to compare it with. We''ll see =) Thanks for your interest. I''m having a lot of fun with this, the way I think it should be.

James
 
Date: 1/24/2008 3:39:04 PM
Author: Propter Hoc
I''m hoping so, too =) I''m a little into photography as well (amateur) and have been doing some reading on techniques for photographing diamonds. I have a Nikon D40X which has always served well for my purposes. Though my girlfriend has always been more interested in macro than me (I prefer landscape and portrait), I think I''ve learned enough from watching her and looking at her shots to be able to pull something off (along with the online material I''ve seen). Photographing fluorescence should be an interesting experience. I can''t quite think of anything I''ve done in the past to compare it with. We''ll see =) Thanks for your interest. I''m having a lot of fun with this, the way I think it should be.

James
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That is the way it should be!

Look forward to your photos.
 
So, it''s here! I am no expert, but the stone looks fantastic to my untrained eye. I am going to try to have it looked at by some local talent tomorrow or Monday. I''ll probably need to have it appraised also. I''m not sure what the first step is toward insuring it, maybe someone could offer some advice to that end (before or after I have it set? Renter''s insurance?).

Either it is the cleanest/newest (very possible) or the best performing diamond I have ever seen in person. It is nearly hard to photograph because brilliance and fire seems to wash out a lot of the detail. The lens flare effect looks just like the Photoshop "lens flare" filter in a lot of the pictures. My local photography go-to-guy had very little helpful advice. I think I may need a macro lens to do it right, but the only decent one that goes with my camera runs $899 and I don''t foresee a long future in macro photography to justify it unless I make it a gift to ''S.''

By the time I received my package today from UPS the sunlight was gone. I don''t have any professional artificial light so I did what I could. Only one photo today, I''ll play with it tomorrow.

No surprise that GOG customer service just keeps getting better. Somehow they found out I am in the military (my e-mail most likely). They sent a very touching note and a rebate thanking me for my service. I make it a point not to ask retailers if they offer discounts, but I think it is rude to turn down a genuine show of support. So, thank you back GOG, for your support.

The package was WAY heavier than I expected. I suppose I wasn''t prepared for everything that would be in the box. This has certainly been an adventure. I anticipate nothing but good news when I take my new treasure around for a checkup, but I will certainly report back. I can''t wait to walk a friend through this and show off my new knowledge.

Having read a couple of the photography threads I feel a little hesitant to post photos. Please don''t judge my skills as a photographer based on these shots. This is a whole new game. Also, my only goal was to make this stone look as good as possible (without retouching). The pics are in no way intended to be representative, comparative, or "industry standard." I guess some folks get pretty cut throat about that around here.

I didn''t upload the ones with the best fire or brilliance because I can''t seem to capture that effect AND see the stone clearly. This one seems to be a compromise. I''ll do better tomorrow. Right now I''m sleepy. Big day.

Blessings,
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James
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DSC_0240.JPG
 
Oh yeah, I love to laugh at myself so join in.

A moment of naivety, by James:

The reason I selected this photo is because it was the first one in which I noticed the reflection on the posterboard. No joke, I looked at that pattern the reflected light had made and was trying to rationalize a way the flash could be magnifying the AGS logo that I believe may be laser inscribed on the crown. It took me about 1.5-2 full minutes to come to the conclusion that they probably based their logo on the pattern that light makes when reflected off the facets of a well cut diamond. So...I''m headed to bed now laughing all the way up the stairs.

James
 
James, great write up! My guess is, it's the best cut stone you've probably seen.
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I own a stone by that company too, and they truly don't get cut much better than that. It's just gorgeous in the photo, which doesn't surprise me. I have no doubt it will get rave reviews from it's critics.
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And btw, that photo is great. Please, don't hesitate to post more, we LOVE diamond pictures. Good, bad, and everything inbetween! And I don't know if you've run into it, but I started The Fire Thread (search that), and would love it if you put your fire shots in there. Many aren't focused when capturing the fire/brilliance, don't worry about that. We just wanna see those colors!

Also, I've gotten some decent shots (certainly not studio quality, but good enough), just using my Cannon point and shoot that has a macro setting. So, if you wanted to buy her a present that's practical, you could pick one of those up for 200-300 easily.

And how awesome is that about the military discount. However, it doesn't surprise me after thinking about it, GOG and Jon in particular are great to work with, as you well know.

Can't wait to hear how the rest of it goes. Have fun!


p.s. Do a search on here for insurance, scads of threads on it.
 
I''ll search on insurance later tonight. We have a date today so it looks like I''m not headed down to the jewelery stores this evening. I do have some pretty cool fire pics so far, I''ll be sure to check out that thread and post. ''S.'' has a Sony Cybershot DSC W-90 8.1MP with macro. It would never have occurred to me to try that over the D-SLR. I''ll dig it out late tonight and see what I get. I can''t even remember if it has a tripod plate..I''m sure it must though. I considered focal length of every lens in the house except the one in the purse camera lol. Thanks again for more great advice.

James
 
I told you you''d love it! Seriously, though, it probably is the best cut diamond you''ve seen. It is also probably the cleanest - people let their jewelry get to absolutely disgusting levels of filth. You should consider getting your gf an ultrasonic cleaner to go along with the ring, so she can keep it sparkly. Congrats!
 
Date: 1/26/2008 4:39:44 AM
Author: Propter Hoc


No surprise that GOG customer service just keeps getting better. Somehow they found out I am in the military (my e-mail most likely). They sent a very touching note and a rebate thanking me for my service. I make it a point not to ask retailers if they offer discounts, but I think it is rude to turn down a genuine show of support. So, thank you back GOG, for your support.


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James
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Click to expand...

Thanks for posting about your experiences thus far. My stone came from Jon as well and he is just so awesome! Looking forward to more photos...
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So...I went to church this morning. This is pretty much what I did for the rest of the day. I''m getting a little better, but this is definitely a patience game.

James

934VVS2.jpg
 


934VVS2 (2)_264x320.jpg
 
Blue effect

934VVS2 (3)_320x230.jpg
 
Red

934VVS2 (4)_320x258.jpg
 
Yellow

934VVS2 (5)_320x288.jpg
 
6

934VVS2 (6)_320x214.jpg
 
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