.005 vs .01 - The micropave debate continues....

[TheGreatTwizz]

Ok, so my stone (2.43 J/VS2 cushion, see specs here [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-eval-sarin-and-aset-included.167984/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-eval-sarin-and-aset-included.167984/[/URL]) is off to the jeweler to have the setting made.

Setting will be a u-cut micro pave halo, much like VC's Emilya ring, which was posted in the SK, LM, VC comparo thread here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/[/URL]

The question becomes, do I go with full point or half point melee in this ring?? The g/f has requested 'delicate', but all common knowledge as well as my jeweler's recommendation say that I shouldn't use half-point all the way around as it'll make it 'too delicate'. Once I mentioned to her that she's going to experience stone loss with this thing no matter what, she seemed mortified, but I feel like I'd have a better chance of mitigating that loss with slightly larger melee. Shes not a PS-er, I doubt she'll even notice the half mm difference in the stones....what to do?

 

[Enerchi]

Hi Twizz (that just sounds so cool!!),
Not an expert, but I'd go with the jewellers recommendation to go a bit up in size to minimize your loss. And just sayin', but what girl wouldn't want a bit more 'bling' factor on her finger??? Not me, said this little red hen, I'd take as much sparkle as I could get!

Go the slightly bigger stone size and probably it won't be out of the delicate range that she is desiring.

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

My thoughts as well (who wouldn't want bigger diamonds?!?! Then again, she is getting a 2.43 center stone!!). Also, this will be single cut melee (didn't mention that in the first thread).

 

[Enerchi]

Pfffft... as if 2.43 ct is a *bigger* diamond... says who???

(((OMG!!! I'd KILL or even give BIRTH again for that size centre stone!!!)))

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I believe Frankie's were about 1.3 mm (which apparently is 1 pt.), so I would definitely go with that size as hers is fabulous! I wouldn't go larger than that, though.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/victor-canera-rb-halo-ring-my-forever-setting-finally.164262/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/victor-canera-rb-halo-ring-my-forever-setting-finally.164262/[/URL]

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Twizz- congrats on the stone!

Here's my take on melee size: Pick a design you've seen, and that you like. The person making the ring needs to know what size stones to use. If you have to tell the maker of the ring the size of the micro pave stones, it's a very bad sign IMO.
Here's why: To get a consistent micro-pave look, the person crafting the ring needs the freedom to use whatever size is necessary to achieve the look of the style you've picked.
Many of the popular designs today don't show a lot of metal between the stones- for this you need to allow the setter to tell YOU what size stones are needed- not the other way around. if they're too large it will create a different look. More metal between.
Some pieces may take 3 -4 different sizes in the halo part alone.

anyway, I hope this helps!

 

[ame]

Don't go lower than 1pt because you won't get much fire out of smaller. Also make sure they are using H&A and ideal melee. Otherwise it won't sparkle much either.

 

[ruby59]

I agree with Ame about not going smaller than 1 point for melee. I had purchased an endless love eternity band by Ritani. They use 1/2 point melee. While it glimmered, it did not really sparkle.

 

[ame]

My stones in my flyer band are 1 or 1.5 pts and they do fire off. But I am glad I didn't go smaller.

 

[Rockdiamond]

There are , of course, a variety of quality of cut in smaller stones- they are not judged in the same manner as large stones- but very well cut stones do indeed sparkle beautifully- even down to below one pointers.
If you go into the finest stores in the world- places like Graff, Harry Winston, Tiffany, etc, and you'll see some very sparkly stones below .01ct.
There's places that stones need to go on a micro pave piece that are very small- extremely fine hand forged pieces will generally use stones smaller than .01ct.
They can be amazing- so small, yet adding so much dazzle.

When you examine these tiny stones under a microscope, it's amazing!
They look as complex as the larger ones- the same subtle beauty of deign of the cut is there.

Some people prefer single cuts as the smaller stones have larger facets....a different look, but both can be phenomenal.

When using a cad- or in cases of jewelers that may be very good- but not masters- the smaller stones are far less common.
But in extra fine pieces- you'll find them used to give the piece a much richer feel- less metal, more diamond.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Ok, so my stone (2.43 J/VS2 cushion, see specs here [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-eval-sarin-and-aset-included.167984/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-eval-sarin-and-aset-included.167984/[/URL]) is off to the jeweler to have the setting made.

Setting will be a u-cut micro pave halo, much like VC's Emilya ring, which was posted in the SK, LM, VC comparo thread here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/[/URL]

The question becomes, do I go with full point or half point melee in this ring?? The g/f has requested 'delicate', but all common knowledge as well as my jeweler's recommendation say that I shouldn't use half-point all the way around as it'll make it 'too delicate'. Once I mentioned to her that she's going to experience stone loss with this thing no matter what, she seemed mortified, but I feel like I'd have a better chance of mitigating that loss with slightly larger melee. Shes not a PS-er, I doubt she'll even notice the half mm difference in the stones....what to do?

To address this point specifically- it is not a given that you will experience stone loss.
It happens, however not to every ring.
IN the debate- which is more prone to loose a stone- our experience would be that it's more to do with the quality of setting, and exposure to stress ( some people are much harder on rings) versus size of stone.
Another main cause of stones loosening and falling out is when a ring has been adjusted for size.

My point above is that if you trust the jeweler- they'll make sure you get the right size diamonds.
I'm not suggesting "blind faith" at all- make sure they show you other rings they've made, in the style you want.
I would agree that using .005ct stones all around a shank would not generally be the case-unless it's a multi-row pave.
You pick the style- if it calls for larger stones- and some styles do- then use the larger stones.
If the jeweler is suggesting using half point diamonds- and they're showing you pieces utilizing them, you're may be disappointed with the results of you ask them to change that aspect.

I would advise shoppers to ask for a money back guarantee- although few custom makers will give it. Doesn't hurt to ask- if not I'd advise shoppers to ask what happens if they don't like the results

 

[Gypsy]

I have had both a 1 point and a 1/2 point halo. I certainly wouldn't do half pointers for single shanks. SO you are going to be at 1 pointers for the shank anyway. With a 2 carat stone I think you'll be okay with a 1 point halo. Especially if your jeweler is recommending-- he's doing that for a reason, he's much more comfortable with setting 1 pointers well.

THAT SAID. If you WERE going with VC or Steven, I would suggest a 1/2 point halo.

My center stone is only 5.8 square, so keep that in mind. But here are pics of BOTH halos so you can see the difference both in close and far shots.

1 point

1/2 point

Up close and personal:

1 point
1/2 point

 

[ruby59]

After reading the replies, I am confused. I thought Ritani used high quality melee. The workmanship was perfect. But the sparkle was just not there. Maybe I got a dud.

 

[Gypsy]

After reading the replies, I am confused. I thought Ritani used high quality melee. The workmanship was perfect. But the sparkle was just not there. Maybe I got a dud.

Do you keep it clean? Diamonds have to be clean to sparkle.

 

[ame]

I didn't buy a Ritani band because I thought the melee looked like crap. I'd seen several rings and was NOT impressed. maybe it was the size, maybe it was just poorly cut.

 

[ruby59]

Gypsy, yes, it was nice and clean. I purchased it from someone on ebay, so I brought it to my jewelers to have it authenticated (he sells the line) and cleaned. The ones he had looked great under the jewelers' spotlights as did mine. But IRL, I was just not impressed.

I remember a thread on here where someone asked a similar question, and another replied that melee under 1 point do not sparkle well. So I always thought that was the problem with my Ritani band.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I have had both a 1 point and a 1/2 point halo. I certainly wouldn't do half pointers for single shanks. SO you are going to be at 1 pointers for the shank anyway. With a 2 carat stone I think you'll be okay with a 1 point halo. Especially if your jeweler is recommending-- he's doing that for a reason, he's much more comfortable with setting 1 pointers well.

THAT SAID. If you WERE going with VC or Steven, I would suggest a 1/2 point halo.

My center stone is only 5.8 square, so keep that in mind. But here are pics of BOTH halos so you can see the difference both in close and far shots.

1 point

1/2 point

Up close and personal:

1 point
1/2 point

Cool rings Gypsy!!

Note- the .01ct stones in your photo are single cuts- the half point stones are full cut


Ruby- some designs are less able to allow the diamond to sparkle as well as other designs.
For example, as you look at Gypsy's lovely rings, notice that the stones are exposed at the girdle- as opposed to set between a channel, which is popular in wedding bands.
The second method is probably more secure overall- but closing off the girdle does prevent some light from getting in- and affects performance.

 

[Laila619]

This is interesting. I had a bead set setting that had ideal cut melee in it (1.4mm stones), and the pave didn't sparkle AT ALL! It was just so dull. I took it to a jeweler and asked if he saw what I saw. He said that bead set doesn't sparkle as much as prong set pave because the diamonds were set down into the metal.

I have a channel set band with much smaller stones, and that sparkles way more. I think it's because there are no metal beads/prongs in between the stones, so all you see are diamonds.

 

[bmg]

Ok, so my stone (2.43 J/VS2 cushion, see specs here [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-eval-sarin-and-aset-included.167984/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-eval-sarin-and-aset-included.167984/[/URL]) is off to the jeweler to have the setting made.

Setting will be a u-cut micro pave halo, much like VC's Emilya ring, which was posted in the SK, LM, VC comparo thread here: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/comparison-photos-of-my-victor-canera-sk-leon-ring-setting.166496/[/URL]

The question becomes, do I go with full point or half point melee in this ring?? The g/f has requested 'delicate', but all common knowledge as well as my jeweler's recommendation say that I shouldn't use half-point all the way around as it'll make it 'too delicate'. Once I mentioned to her that she's going to experience stone loss with this thing no matter what, she seemed mortified, but I feel like I'd have a better chance of mitigating that loss with slightly larger melee. Shes not a PS-er, I doubt she'll even notice the half mm difference in the stones....what to do?

Too many variables here to answer this for you and our opinions don't matter nearly as much as the wearer.
I'd suggest go to a store and look at different sized melee beside your centre stone to decide.

Lots of things contribute:

1) Skill of setter at minimizing metal
2) Quality of melee is important
3) Type of pave
4) How well polished the bezel and plate is
5) Setting Design
6) The desired durability

Overall you should be choosing a jeweller who understands what you want and tells you what melee size not the other way around as Rockdiamond has explained. Make sure you have seen the same design or very similar to the design you want before selecting them, if they don't have similar work to show you I'd pick someone who does.

A 2+ Ct rock with 0.5pt (1mm) melee may look fake or like a cocktail ring to some people. I'd make sure the wearer likes this look before deciding on it.

The classic Harry Winston pave halo is about 1pt (1.3mm) withCentre stones of 2Ct - 3Ct, you could ask for a bit smaller 1.2mm stones but unless you are sure you want half pointers I'd advise against it. The shank should be at least 1.5mm (1.7 - 2.0mm would be safer and still quite delicate) for durability reasons so maybe you want to go with larger stones in the shank than the halo.

But really the delicacy of the ring will come down to the jeweler and setter's skill at minimizing metal just as much as the size of the melee if you are deciding between 0.5 - 1 pointers. You will not get anywhere close to the delicate appearance of that VC ring with your average CAD/Wax Jeweller.

 

[TheGreatTwizz]

Thank you all for the tremendous insight.

To clarify, the intent here is to use one point single cuts, H/I, VS. I want the color more inline with that of the center stone, and otherwise the best melee available. My jeweler assured me of sourcing these, and ultimately, my trust in him is unwavering.

To address some specifics:

Rockdiamond: Again, thank you for some wonderful comments. You are really an asset to this forum. I have picked a design I liked, and have gone over it THOROUGHLY with my jeweler. Further, he showed me plenty of examples of his bench guy's micro pave work, and being satisfied with the quality of it, gave him the go-ahead to replicate the design, with some very minor tweaks on my end. We met yesterday where the setting was roughed out (basic shape, pilot holes for melee drilled) to go over those specifics. He even brought the guy out from the back to talk with me. They showed me one point, half point, and QUARTER point melee work from their bench, and all were satisfactory to me under 10X. I also promised him that I'm not critiquing at 30X, clean work at 10X is what I'd like. He has, literally, dozens of photos of not only what I want, but also of what I don't want. As this is his first time doing such a design, he has offered me 100% satisfaction, both in terms of remake and/or money back. I assured him if he delivers what I've asked for, any changes are on me, period. He even stated to me that he's undertaking this project to see if he can do it, and seems confident, as am I.

Gypsy: Another exceptional asset to this forum. Thank you!!! As I look at the photos of your ring over and over (wonderful choice on the asscher btw, that was my first choice, but she likes the cushion), while I prefer the half point size, I prefer the single cut of the full pointers. I did speak with VC about this project, and he, too, advised one point melee, both shank and halo, but said he would do half pointers if that's what I wanted. This stone is 8.5x7.5, so looking back, the halfs may be simply too dainty.

BMG: I agree with all your statements, and that is how things have gone down. Of note, I'm not dealing with a CAD/wax jeweler. This is entirely hand rolled, and there was no CAD. I gave him photos, and we're sitting down at every step of the process to review. I have examined this specific craftsman's pave work, and it is on par (and in some cases better than to my untrained eye) with the photos presented here by the top designers.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Thanks TGT- your words mean a lot!