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0.92 E VVS1- thoughts?

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wade_44

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
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19
What does everyone think? I would really appreciate any feedback. I have been carefully looking for a while now. I have learned a lot from this site!

(GIA graded) 0.92 carat, E Color, VVS1 clarity
Price $6555.00
Depth Percentage 60.8 %
Table Percentage 55.9 %
Crown Angle 34.3
Pavilion Angle 41.0
Girdle Medium
Culet Very Small
Polish EXCELLENT
Symmetry EXCELLENT

HCA is 1.3
 

JayTee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2002
Messages
62
Sounds like you're getting a great stone. Doing a pricescope search shows that the price you're receiving is exactly in line with the online ones available -- are you getting this from one of the online vendors here on Pricescope or at a B&M?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Sounds like a good deal, though when running items for HCA scores on Pricescope, didn't really find anything that matched your specs. Closest two were a .80 F VVS1 with a 1.3 score on HCA, AGS000 for $4800, and a 1.05 F VVS1 with a .4 score on HCA, AGS000 for $8800.

Have you seen the stone..does it speak to you? The numbers all look fine..if you are going for BEST quality the E VVS1 will definitely fit the bill! :)
 

wade_44

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
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19
JayTee,
It is from some pricescope vendors.

Mara,
Thanks for the information, you are very kind.


I appreciate both of your comments!
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
Why VVS1? If you are going to buy a stone with flaws, why not buy a larger eye-clean stone -- like a VS2? By going with VVS you are paying more for something you cannot see.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
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On 12/11/2002 12:27:37 AM

Why VVS1? If you are going to buy a stone with flaws, why not buy a larger eye-clean stone -- like a VS2? By going with VVS you are paying more for something you cannot see.
----------------


Sage advice. I would also question the wisdom of E color. While I can appreciate you wanting to get a nice stone for your to be, you will acheive such in the F Vs2 - frankly, in this size, I would suggest G/H VS2. You will either save quite a bit of money (1500) or be able to attain a larger stone over 1.25 for the price.

My spin.
 

golfer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Messages
128
These are common mantras on this board (why choose an E? why get VVS1?). My take is that its personal preference (obviously) and it is largely a jeweler-created myth that no difference exists between, say, a D and an F. I can see a difference. Yeah, I know -- in platinum, from the top, yadda, yadda. But there are lots of reasons to choose VVS and IF stones, as well as D's and E's. Often people put stock in intangibles -- especially when we're talking about diamonds. And often going up in carat size is not a wise move, so putting money into top-notch color and clarity is a good substitute. You only get one e-ring, you've got it for 50 years or so -- might as well do it right. Or save money. I don't believe in buying for brand (Tiffany -- huge waste), but no reason not to buy a D IF if you can.
 

wade_44

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
19
Thanks for your opinions!

I am not necesssarily seeking a VVS1, it is more about getting a dimaond with good color and right under 1 ct. The clarity just happened to be high. The high clarity is somewhat of a comfort since I am going to buy a diamond off the web. I am a little nervous because I will not actually see the diamond. No amount of pictures, reports, scopes, can make up for that. I am sure others have felt that way about purchasing online.

Although I know some would argue that going for more size should be my goal, the fact is my girlfriend really doesn't anything bigger than 1 ct becuase it really looks to big for her. We were intially looking around .75, and have moved up slightly.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 12/11/2002 11:15:28 AM

These are common mantras on this board (why choose an E? why get VVS1?). My take is that its personal preference (obviously) and it is largely a jeweler-created myth that no difference exists between, say, a D and an F.

No, it is not a common mantra on this board. I *always* catch flak for stating my point of view. The easy thing to say is D IF Ideal cut.

Many people believe that the quality of a diamond has to be a certain level to show their love. When in actuality, a G VS2 stone *is* of very good quality. Perhaps you see a difference; but, many people do not once set. I can assure you I see little if no difference between my F stone & my large "I" stone. I offer a different perpective because, quite frankly, most people overbuy what they really need.

I don't think the diamond industry creates such myth. They are making more money off of a more expensive stone. I bet this time of year a one carat G VS2 stone is far more in demand than an E VVS1 stone. Jeweler's are in the business - they know very few people can see a marginal difference in colors.

I'm am not saying you did not do what was right for you. And, you well know that your E w/ fluor is going to be significantly whiter than a G w/ no fluor or even a D w/ no fluor.

I just offer my point of view b/c I don't want someone spending money needlessly based on what is a *perceived* notion of what a good stone is.

Case in point, my brother (who fashions himself as an expert in most things) was going off on quality of a stone. I kept my mouth shut. He said that his next purchase would be like mine DEF IF. I still kept my mouth shut about my I SI1 stone. Most people have no idea what they are looking at.

That said, I'm not an advocate of buying a poor quality stone.
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Here is my point of view:

Your future wife will wear that e-ring for maybe let's say the
next 50 years. Do you really think that she will never hit the stone on
something? Do you really think that she will not scratch the stone?
Most probably that VVS stone will become maybe a VS stone.
So why not buy a VS stone right away? (unless you love all the
specs of a specific stone but it's a VVS and you were planning to buy a VS..so
then buy the stone).

Best regards,
Trichrome.
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
I agree with Golfer that it's a preference, or somewhat along the lines of perceived value in one's mind. We were looking at SI1's for a while because I wanted larger carat weight, but I wasn't comfortable with knowing that some might be eye clean and some might not. Especially when we were looking online. If I was purchasing online, and could not see the stone in person, now I would definitely get along the lines of a VS1 because that notation on a certificate would pretty much guarantee I'm not going to see a carbon inclusion in the middle of the table or on a pavilion facet with a naked eye.

Personally (my two cents again!), I think that Wade has a great deal here. As stated, he and his future bride want to stay under 1 carat. They are pretty close with a .92. Why not put the extra $$ that obviously they are okay with spending into better quality with E and VVS? If they are comfortable with it, sounds fine to me. Everyone's preferences are different though. As the previous poster said, maybe over time the VVS will become a VS, but better to start with a VVS that turns into a VS than start with a VS2 that turns into an SI2! :cheeky:

Also I was thinking about this last nite a little after the post about 'why put your money into a VVS etc) and while I tend to agree *IF* one was interested in obtaining a better cut or higher carat, it sounds like on paper this cut is great, and the carat weight is what they want. Wade won't know more til he purchases most likely...but it sounds like an okay gamble to me. Also was thinking that for the price..this sounds like a pretty good deal. A 1.05 on pricescope with a .5 HCA was $8800. He's getting this for almost 2k less. I bet it will appraise for more around the 8-9k range if its what it sounds like, esp with the high color and clarity. :naughty:
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
"I would also question the wisdom of E color."

F&I, we are in complete agreement on the clarity issue. I have to disagree on the color issue, and here's why: I concede that most people, including myself, cannot tell the difference between E and F, or F and G, or even E and G color, after a stone has been set. But for me, knowing that the stone is a G color, and knowing that SOME people can tell the difference, I would always have that in the back of my mind, and would always be LOOKING for some slight tinge of yellow in different lighting circumstances -- even if I could never see it. I would obsess about it, and I fear that it would take away from my appreciation of the stone, EVEN IF I COULD NEVER TELL THE DIFFERENCE.

I feel the same way about strong flourescence in a D/E/F. I would always be fixated on the question "Can I see it? Can I see it? Can I see it? Does it look cloudy?"

Clarity, on the other hand, is a different story. If an expert cannot even tell the difference between an IF and a VS2 without a loup, the thought would never cross my mind to look for a VS2 inclusion in the same way I would be looking for a slight tinge of yellow in a G color stone.

I know. I know. I'm being ridiculous. G stones are beautiful, and I cannot tell them apart from D stones face up. But I wonder how many other people think the same way I do . . .
 

jetcaptain

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 3, 2002
Messages
72
----------------
On 12/11/2002 11:15:28 AM

These are common mantras on this board (why choose an E? why get VVS1?). My take is that its personal preference (obviously) and it is largely a jeweler-created myth that no difference exists between, say, a D and an F. I can see a difference. Yeah, I know -- in platinum, from the top, yadda, yadda. But there are lots of reasons to choose VVS and IF stones, as well as D's and E's. Often people put stock in intangibles -- especially when we're talking about diamonds. And often going up in carat size is not a wise move, so putting money into top-notch color and clarity is a good substitute. You only get one e-ring, you've got it for 50 years or so -- might as well do it right. Or save money. I don't believe in buying for brand (Tiffany -- huge waste), but no reason not to buy a D IF if you can.
----------------

Golfer,
Although I agree with parts of your post, I completely disagree with the sentence about jeweler-created myths. From my experience, (less reputable)jewelers struggle desperately to convince us that there are HUGE differences between color and clarity grades, and insinuate that unless you are buying D-IF, the love that your diamond symbolizes is somehow less than perfect. It's a great marketing technique, and consumers buy into it all the time. It's an excellent way to separate you from more of your hard-earned money. But, like you said, it's personal preference how a consumer will order their priorities among the five C's (including cost) when buying a diamond. There isn't a right or wrong answer. But the common mantras on this forum are common because they represent the conclusions that many of us have reached after educating ourselves about buying diamonds. It doesn't make them right, but the majority opinion is something that's certainly worth giving some serious consideration, don't you think?
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Caratz--many people feel the same way you do I am sure. I see many posts urging people to go up in color and down in clarity. I agree for the most part on color, but on clarity I tend to somewhat disagree in some cases. :)

We were close to buying an E, SI1 that I'm sure was icy white. But it was online and I just didnt feel comfortable with not seeing a blown up picture of the stone until it arrived and we could look at it in person. The vendor I was dealing with (a highly reputable, recommended vendor on this site) was getting the stone from the wholesaler and the wholesaler had no closeup shots of it which just didn't sit well with me.

We also looked at an SI1 at our jeweler locally, it was an E, SI1, gorgeous, very sparkly, but I honestly could see NO difference between the E we looked at, and the G VS1 we ended up with. The E had a carbon inclusion that I could see when tilting the stone but face up it was eye-clean (as that is how stones clarity is graded). In clarity we saw a huge difference, especially under a loupe. The SI1, while eye clean, looked dirty when viewed with a loupe, kind of speckled. The VS1 was perfect to our untrained eyes with the loupe. That is kind of what made the decision for us. If there had been an F, VS2 in our price range at the time we were looking, we might have gone for that. I wasn't looking for a VS1, but that is what we had in front of us at the time that worked best. And now that its all said and done I am glad we got the VS1 over an SI1, I love looking at the stone with the loupe (okay maybe no one else will but *I* will!!!) and seeing how clean it is inside. Also the G color is pretty white..I don't detect ANY color in it..though maybe the brilliance of the stone (very high) has something to do with how white it appears.
 

golfer

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Messages
128
----------------
Golfer,
Although I agree with parts of your post, I completely disagree with the sentence about jeweler-created myths. From my experience, (less reputable)jewelers struggle desperately to convince us that there are HUGE differences between color and clarity grades, and insinuate that unless you are buying D-IF, the love that your diamond symbolizes is somehow less than perfect. It's a great marketing technique, and consumers buy into it all the time. It's an excellent way to separate you from more of your hard-earned money. But, like you said, it's personal preference how a consumer will order their priorities among the five C's (including cost) when buying a diamond. There isn't a right or wrong answer. But the common mantras on this forum are common because they represent the conclusions that many of us have reached after educating ourselves about buying diamonds. It doesn't make them right, but the majority opinion is something that's certainly worth giving some serious consideration, don't you think?


I think jewelers have seized people becoming educated about diamonds to push F-H color stones and VS-Si1 clarity. These are the stones that have appreciated the most in value the last several years. Jewelers know that some buyers will always buy D IF, but they have to keep the 95% convinced that they spring for a very expensive diamond even if they are not getting D IF. Every vendor I spoke to focused immediately in on F-G color range and VS2-Si2 as the best values.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 12/11/2002 12:32:57 PM

I know. I know. I'm being ridiculous. G stones are beautiful, and I cannot tell them apart from D stones face up. But I wonder how many other people think the same way I do . . .
----------------


If you admittedly can't tell then why would you care what others think? Diamonds are graded face down. What a stone looks like face up is all that matters for the beauty of a stone. I think we are all in agreement that diamonds are not an investment (or at least a good one).

Funny, I heard this from two different jeweler's. They said run (don't just walk) away from any salesperson/jeweler who can tell you the color of your diamond face up on your hand. If GG GIA's can't tell the difference without close scrutiny, then I'm sure john q public can't.

Everyone is different. just my spin.

20 years ago received the F VVs stone - small but perfect .70. I became very disheartened that no one gave a darn about my specs - only that is was smaller than a friends over 1c stone that was not a good stone (not even a G SI). I'm not sorry we went that route; but, if I were to do over I wish someone would have said "a G SI1 stone will do just fine". I was under the notion *that* stone would not be good.

Keep in mind, I am not debating the cut issue.
 

fire&ice

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
7,828
----------------
On 12/11/2002 12:54:54 PM


----------------
I think jewelers have seized people becoming educated about diamonds to push F-H color stones and VS-Si1 clarity. These are the stones that have appreciated the most in value the last several years. Jewelers know that some buyers will always buy D IF, but they have to keep the 95% convinced that they spring for a very expensive diamond even if they are not getting D IF. Every vendor I spoke to focused immediately in on F-G color range and VS2-Si2 as the best values.

----------------


For a higher quality stone F-G color VS2-SI1 ARE the best values & a safe bet for the average high end consumer. It's a fact not something made up.

The retailer wants the client to be happy. When he/she walks away, they don't want them to be second guessing their choice. There was a reason you were pushed toward those stones.

You and I agree on the whole fluor thing; so, let's start there. As a retailer, would you push a stone w/ bl. fluor? I sure wouldn't. I see nightmare waiting to happen. You have to explain the fluor. You have to disclaim that it might exhibit a blue/purple hue in sun; and, it may have a slight chance of looking cloudy in sunlight. The stone will light up under black lights. - Or :bigsmile: that it could make the stone face up whiter - now w/ your already distrust w/ the jeweler, wouldn't you be doing a yeah, right.

For a happy client, the safe choice is to push the f/g stones. Most will be happy; and, the cost savings appreciated.
 
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