‘Failure to Launch’ - What Did/Do You Do?

[LinSF]

@the_mother_thing You're a good mother for not just accepting that the path led here, but now taking action to make certain that your daughter learns to survive on her own in life and does not take how fortunate she is for granted. I think you're on the right path, though I can't advise because my children are tiny yet in comparison and I was much like Nala's daughter- though through necessity.

 

[Efe]

We were pretty hard on both our kids as far as expectations. They both bought their own cars, paid for insurance and gas and they lived with us, rent free, while in collage (which we paid) and worked part time. They complained bitterly about this arrangement as we lived in an affluent area and none of their friends had to do any of this, blah, blah, blah.

As adults, with families of their own, they both have come to us and told us what a difference we made in their development with our tough love. They are successful in their lives, and contribute to society, which is what I felt strongly was our job to teach them to be.

I really struggle when I see young adults who have the expectation, starting out, of the same lifestyle their parents worked years and made sacrifices to obtain.

One thing to stress to your daughter when you do talk is that this is not your new husband's sole idea. It will be easy for her to conclude that the big changes you are expecting of her now are a result of him coming into the picture and of his dissatisfaction with the living arrangement. She may not even express it, but she will think it.

I think you are doing a wise thing and are doing it out of love for your daughter.

 

[Dancing Fire]

We never did charge our daughters rent money. We paid all of our daughter's expenses while they were attending college. DD #1 attended college out of town DD #2 attended college locally.

DD#1 found a full time job out of town after graduating from college, then after 6 months she got lucky and was able transfer back in town and live with us "rent free", so we asked her to start saving money for d/p on a house and we'll match her savings, so in one year she saved 30K, and as we promised we matched her 30k and she was able to purchase a house during the housing crisis at a very low price.

DD#2...After graduating from college with a BS degree she couldn't find a job during the downturn of our economy then she decided to attend nursing school and after graduating from nursing school she was able to find a full time job within a month.

I swear both of our daughters have been very fortunate in their young lives. Seems like everything was meant to be.

 

[Indylady]

Ah, great to know she’s working! That is responsible and I commend her for that. Has she given a reason on why she doesn’t want to start college? The first two years are often basic courses anyway—there is still a little time to think and later chose a major.

Are her friends in college? I think that friends have a lot of influence in a young adult’s life; if her friends and peers are feeling fine without school, she may think it’s fine too. Also—college is formative and fun—it’s fun to be around thousands of peers your own age and get to study whatever you like. Maybe computer science or some kind of design would be a field that’s interesting for her?

 

[telephone89]

we asked her to start saving money for d/p on a house and we'll match her savings, so in one year she saved 30K, and as we promised we matched her 30k and she was able to purchase a house during the housing crisis at a very low price.

This is also an amazing idea!

 

[AV_]

@AV_ I think - if she actually went to a couple college tours and saw what was available for her to do (aside from school) - she may actually enjoy it. But being an introvert, I think the idea of living/being around so many people all of the time is not her thing. That’s why she initially said she wanted to stay local/at home while attending college, which is fine ... if she’d actually register and go.

I had some of the best life advice from university consellors - the same people who would take questions like yours.

Then, is college a crowd... I could tell of one lad choosing Astronomy - so that he can have a tower accomodation (sans heat!) all to himself+1 in the middle of nowhere. The rest is still very scripted - it is possible & done to go through it all meeting nobody.

I do not care for city life & universities do not feel like it.

Gotta try!

Summer school?

 

[LaylaR]

I'm happy my post helped.

As someone who has a step-father, I agree with the advice that you should to make it sparkling clear that you are driving force, not her step-dad. No matter how much she loves him, there are probably a few insecurities.

Additionally... something struck me when I was reading your responses. You have firmly stated multiple times that your daughter is categorically not ready to live alone or apart from the family home. She's not mature enough or capable enough yet.

When we have closely held beliefs about other people, it comes out in the way we treat them. And as a young lady it is hard to think of yourself as capable. As independent. As being smart enough and fit enough to take care of yourself-- when your parents treat you as if you can't. If they don't realize they are treating you like a child.

So, my advice is: change your perception of her as her mother. Think of her as a 20 year old who is fully capable of taking care of herself. In my twenties my mother would give me these comments, "Adults do this, adults do that." Adults vacuum and dust once a week and take care of their houses. Adults know how to balance a checkbook. Adults don't forget to pay their bills. Adults get yearly teeth cleanings.

You know what? Many adults don't do any of that. There are a lot of adults out there failing at doing a bunch of things we would IDEALLY like them to do. Adults pay child support. Adults respect the law. Adults drive sober. Nope. Nope. Nope. In an ideal world, yes. But in reality. Nope.

It took me until my 30's to realize: my mother's definition of an adult was irrelevant. I WAS AN ADULT, regardless of how she treated me or what her standards of adulthood were.

And your daughter might not meet your definition or standard of an adult right now. But she is one already.

IF, god forbid, something happens to you or your husband, REGARDLESS of whether she is truly ready, life might force her to be ready. And that like the rest of us poor souls she might have to 'fake it till she makes it' and fail and mess up some times until she figures things out. Failure, being allowed to fail. That's a good thing. You learn from failure more than you success.

She doesn't need to prove to you that she's an adult so you start to treat her like one. For your own good and hers, you need to take that step and start treating her as a capable adult regardless of your personal standards for what an adult does or does not do. And that includes letting her face the consequences of her actions, like bouncing checks (good job, momma!) And I think that if you demonstrate to her that you have confidence that she CAN take care of herself-- she will have that confidence too. But if you continue to tell yourself she's not ready. If you continue to doubt her capability in thought and deed... she will see through you. She will feel it. And it will may hold her back. She might be scared to do some things and need a push from you "you can do it!." You can make your own doctor's appointment. You can find your own new doctor or dentist. But that's natural and you can hold her hand the first time (like with the check bouncing) while making it clear that it is a one time thing and she is smart and fit enough to figure things out for herself.

 

[luv2sparkle]

This is really and interesting thread to read. I greatly enjoy reading everyone’s perspective. It is not easy raising kids. Each one is different, every families struggles are different. I have gained a lot by reading what all of you think and what works for each of you.

 

[Elizabeth35]

Layla made a very important point.

I have seen friends infantilize their kids until age 30 and beyond. It's not beneficial to the parents or the adult child.
I would rather they move out younger and, if necessary, help them financially on occasion.
They need the opportunity to learn how to live on their own, make mistakes and even occasionally fail.

Your daughter is still quite young. Since she is working almost full-time---she should be paying for her car repairs, gas, car insurance, entertainment, clothing, etc. Who is providing her health insurance? If you are paying for that---make sure she understands how important it is that she eventually gets that via work (and how expensive it can be).

Sit down with her and discuss her goals for 5 and 10 years. She may be a little frozen or confused about how to get going on her education. Maybe she can start school part-time while she works. Just try to get her moving forward. Make sure she understands the probable pay range for her chosen field, and what type of lifestyle that pay will support.

Spend time with her looking on Craigslist at apartments so she has an idea how much rents are for the future. Help her learn about budgeting for utilities, security deposits, etc. Give her the tools to understand how much life costs.
You have a great opportunity for good conversations! Treat her as an adult and she will rise to the expectation over time.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@LaylaR Thanks so much for the additional thoughts and concern around my comments that “she’s not ready...” and your other suggestions. Just to clarify, that’s not something I/we tell her or how we treat her; rather, that’s just our opinion based on mine/hubs’ observations of her behavior, actions, etc. We have & do ‘build her up’, encourage and support her (and the other kids). There are a lot of things she can/should be capable of doing at her age on her own or without my ‘support’. Some of those things may be because she’s used to me handling them, but over time I’ve put things back in her hands to manage as learning opportunities vs. me doing them for her, but she fails to do/manage them or grasp the significance of not doing them. And when/where she does ‘fail’, we’ve let her face the consequences. I think her biggest issue is around prioritization ... of her finances, time, priorities, etc.

As an update, I did talk with DD last night about the forthcoming ‘rent’ plan; however, I have not yet sorted out how much that will be. Hubs & I were away for part of the weekend, so I need to pin that down in the next couple days. I primarily wanted to let her know (‘put her on notice’) that she’d need to be minding her pennies because her first payment will be due on Feb. 1. I also advised her that her “nice to have” groceries will be on her dime as well. She was very receptive and open to it, but she’s generally been that way about most ‘new’ things, until it’s time to ‘pay the piper’ so to speak, so we shall see.

As for college, we’ve had multiple discussions about it ... how to enroll, timeframes, registering for classes, etc., as well as the ability to knock out typical required lower-level courses while she figures out what she really wants to focus/major in. Again, it comes down to prioritizing her time spent on activities that support her future vs. those that are ‘fun’ to do now.

I greatly appreciate ALL of the feedback, experiences, and advice shared in this thread. Thanks so much everyone; and of course, feel free to chime in with additional suggestions or things you’ve done with your kids during/through this age to light the fire under their behinds.

 

[cmd2014]

I don't think it's unreasonable to allow adult children to live at home so long as they are in school, but if they are not, I also don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to find a job, move out, and live on what they are able to earn. Sadly, nothing provides life experience like life experience, and providing too much in the way of amenities sometimes causes the failure to launch. Many of my friends have adult children still living with them and not making moves to become independent - because why should they? It's too comfortable at home (and too easy to live on minimum wage salaries when mom and dad are providing everything), and by the time it isn't comfortable anymore, it may be way too late.

Given that you want to do a gradual transition, I would charge her rent in the form of what a room in a shared house would cost. I would take her off the family phone plan and make her pay for that herself. I would likely not provide meals (or charge extra for her share of the groceries). Ditto for transportation, clothing, shampoo/personal care items, or spending money. Have consequences for failure to pay her bills - after all, a landlord will evict you if you don't pay your rent. Necessity really is the mother of invention. Plus, once she realizes how difficult it is to manage on what she is able to earn without the benefit of education, she will likely very quickly become motivated to get started on getting some training. I'm not sure we do children any favours by not having an explicit expectation that they leave home and fend for themselves if they are not actively pursuing schooling.

 

[Calliecake]

@the_mother_thing other , This is a great thread with so much valuable advise. If it makes you feel any better, many parents are in the same situation and are trying to figure out the best way to go forward and help their children become independent responsible adults.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@cmd2014 & @Calliecake Thanks so much. I know I’m not alone in this roller coaster, and am happy if others are able to gain something from this thread ... and by all means, contribute their own situations/experiences/etc. so we can learn from each other.

I think my biggest challenge that I have in this situation - and I’ll own it - is remembering that DD doesn’t have 40-something years of life experience yet, and that she won’t do things the same way I (now) would do them if I were her age (or in some cases, did do them differently at her age). It’s SOOOO hard when you’ve lived, tried & failed at some things and want to keep your kids from making the same mistakes or choices, but they’re hell bent and determined to do it their way ... just like we did at their age most likely. I think what’s most challenging for me is that I matured very early and started ‘adulting’ when many of my friends back then were still partying, nursing hangovers, and not really going anywhere/doing anything. I don’t want DD to fall into that same trap/path, though she’s not the partying type really ... but just in terms of “I wish she were a more mature/focused 20 YO”, if that makes sense.

 

[lyra]

I think another contributing factor is that people are waiting longer these days to get married and have kids. I know lots of parents who want and allow their daughters to stay at home until they are married, be it for cultural, religious or other reasons. Same with sons in some cases. I admit we want our daughters to save as much money as possible before they do get married, etc. Doesn't mean rent is off the table by any means. I just think in general kids aren't all leaving home as quickly as possible.

My oldest daughter had planned to be out of the house completely by this month actually. But then she got laid off work and went back to school so that she might find a career that was more solid. She is actually embarrassed to live at home, but we don't mind because she contributes so much in other ways, and we don't financially support her at all. Just shelter.

I think my youngest will need more of a push. Soon. Yet it's hard to do for one and not the other. I have explained timelines, and that just because DD1 is at home now, doesn't mean she gets to stay at home indefinitely. I think once she gets her raise this year, she might get more serious.

 

[FinleysMom]

Why did the OP wait until the DD hit 20 to instill responsibility? When my folks wanted me to pay rent at home...I moved out with two other friends (at 20). I never looked back...I was 30 before I was able to live by myself. I loved those years of gaining independence on my own.

I would never date guys who still lived at home either.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Why did the OP wait until the DD hit 20 to instill responsibility?

I didn’t wait until she “hit 20 to instill responsibility”; laziness is not a trait I promoted as a parent. She was doing her own laundry at 9 yrs old, had always helped out around the house when asked, talked about going to college, etc. It’s more a case where she seems to be stuck in a rut and in some respects, taking a few steps backward.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

This is a GREAT thread, with lots of excellent advice. I am not a parent, but my husband is, and he also had a "failure to launch" son. The girls were out before 20, but his son was here till 26.

I'll share how we got him to launch. Let me start by saying that my husband is an enabler, and his son is his pride and joy. Son got into drugs by the age of 16. Quit high school. Started working at Starbucks part time to please DH, and would spend the rest of his time playing video games, doing and selling drugs (I have videos), making messes and mowing through all the food in the house. It was ridiculous to live that way, but no matter what I told DH, he was afraid that if his son was out on his own, he would overdose and die. I thought that was an irrational fear because no one gives away drugs unless you're a hot young girl. Son has money to buy drugs because he is allowed to freeload. The moment he has to pay rent, gas, food, electricity, dentist, etc., he won't have money for drugs anymore. Besides, he is more likely to overdose here, if that's his intention. At my suggestion, DH started charging rent. As previously suggested above, we went on Craigslist and figured out what it would cost to rent a room in a house with amenities like ours. DH and son would have huge fights bi-monthly for non-payment of rent and other issues mentioned above. DH would threaten and yell, and then not follow through, which made everything worse of course.

Then one day, I went into my room and smelled something weird. I found a HUGE pickle jar full of MJ in my closet amongst my things!! I hit the roof and found the straw that broke the camel's back. I told my husband that's it, I've had it. This has gone on too long and too far and I'm not going to have someone hiding their drugs in my things. This stash is not for personal consumption, this is to sell. Do you know what could happen to the property of people who are trafficking??? One of us is going to have to go. My husband realized that his son had gone too far and gave him a week to move out.

Son moved out with friends. Son realized he couldn't pay rent working at Starbucks and got himself a FT job at Walmart, with insurance. Son met a girl!!! That was a first. Son wanted to live with new GF and realized he had to make more money to do so, so he started working with his uncle and learned a new trade and made more money. Son got an apartment with the GF!! Son then went to work for another company doing the same thing with more overtime and that would educate him to get him licensed, and after a few failed attempts, finally passed the test and doubled his income. Son proposed to GF and is now married. NONE of this would have happened had he not been pushed out of THIS nest. Daddy made it very comfortable for him to stay here (except for the fights) and there was no incentive to leave. It took a long time for him to figure out his way, but he did....and he didn't overdose.

DH has a tendency to see and treat his kids as children, but they're all in their 30s. I've told him since they were kids, you're not trying to raise a child, you're trying to raise an adult. You GOTTA give them a chance to figure things out, which means YOU LET THEM FAIL. I think it's a GOOD idea to charge rent, and to somehow get her to travel a bit on her own as suggested. But I think it's an even better idea to figure out why she's stuck. Maybe she doesn't really want to go to college? I had a job and was in college at older than 20, and didn't know what I wanted to be when "I grew up".

I've always thought it sort of dumb that teenagers with no life or work experience have to make a choice that will determine the rest of their lives, by choosing a career they really know nothing about. It's sort of like buying a piece of jewelry. You set your heart on it, you save for it, you're excited about it, and then when you get it - it's not what you thought it was going to be. Except with jewelry, you usually get to return it and get your money back. But you can't do that with 4 or 6 years of college and student loans. You're stuck with your choice and you have no options but to move forward in the field you chose, whether you like it or not. For me, I ended up in the legal field because it was the most money I could make in the clerical field. Then I went to college to move up the ladder, but it was never where I wanted to be, I was just good at what I did. But I didn't enjoy the work, and when I moved to CA, I grew to hate it. There's an old saying, "Not to decide, IS to decide". I never decided to do something else and just got stuck in a miserable job.

Maybe she's afraid of making the wrong choice? You said she's not a partier. Do you know if she has social anxieties that might make her want to stay safely in her little cubby hole? I ask because after reading this thread yesterday, I heard an interesting podcast today by a social psychologist that mentioned that Gen Z kids (born 1995 and after), have grown up differently than anyone before them in history. Do you know what the difference is? They grew up with social media, and that has made them fragile, and for many of them, unable to interact in the real world with real people. They've grown up in a world where other people can and do maliciously destroy them online, sometimes anonymously, and they are constantly comparing themselves to others in their circle, which leads to very severe depressions, isolation and chronic immaturity, among many other things.

I hope something in this post is helpful and I apologize for its length. I don't post often because I can never get my thoughts across succinctly, and my posts turn into mini-novels.... But I do hope it helps.

 

[AV_]

.
@SandyinAnaheim Is this a good summary? (ps)

...
I think it's an even better idea to figure out why she's stuck.
...
I've always thought it sort of dumb that teenagers with no life or work experience have to make a choice that will determine the rest of their lives, by choosing a career they really know nothing about.
...
There's an old saying, "Not to decide, IS to decide". I never decided to do something else and just got stuck in a miserable job.
...
Maybe she's afraid of making the wrong choice?

_____
ps.

Your saying means much to me too - especially the couple of words among the last, about writing too much: I tend to the opposite - I'd write my thesis on Twitter if they let me & probably not hit the letter count limit!

IHMO, yes, life has become more baffling because we can see so much more of it...

(over lunch)

 

[missy]

New to this thread and sharing my thoughts without reading anyone else's yet.
I have no human children so before I add my thoughts want to make that clear. Feel free to ignore everything I am about to write. This is what I think I would do if I had kids.

If my child was not going to school and living at home she would need to pay rent and get a job. My parents always said as long as we were still in school they would (so generously and I was and still am quite appreciative of all they did for us and all the opportunities we had because of them) take care of the bills. But as soon as we were done with school we were on our own re all expenses. Seemed fair to me at the time and still seems fair to me.

It is a common problem now. Many of my friends children are sort of floundering and lost in a way. Living at home and not super motivated to go to school for whatever reason. Be it the economy, be it the seemingly sparsity of good jobs, be it the political atmosphere, IDK. But it is tougher today than it was when we were young and my heart goes out to all the young people struggling to find their way. But where there is a will there is a way and sometimes if they have it too easy they are less quick to decide what they want to do with their life. Not making a decision is a decision all on its own.

Not everyone is suited to higher education but everyone has to find their way and find what they are suited to as life is challenging and one needs a skill set to survive and thrive. The question is what is your DD's best path and only she can know that for sure and sometimes you just don't know til you go for it. She is young and I have no doubt she will find her strength and find what she loves and do it well. Hope that day is sooner rather than later. It is not easy that is for sure.

Sending you good thoughts and hugs @the_mother_thing. I don't envy you this issue and hoping you and your DD can work it out and she can find her passion in life and make a living doing it.

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

.
@SandyinAnaheim Is this a good summary? (ps)

Concise? YES. Engaging? Not so much... I find most things need some context to make sense.

 

[AV_]

Concise? YES. Engaging? Not so much... I find most things need some context to make sense.

Noted .)

I have once suffered through novels... but the stuff I LOVE are proverbs, mantras, wordplay... haiku ( ) & Twitter

(thread hijack!)

 

[pearaffair]

If you’re a reader, check out Gail Vaz Oxlade. Her book, “Money Talks” has some great ideas on how to have tough money conversations with the ones we love.

I’m so glad you’re thinking about this stuff. My sister-in-law is nearly 30 and I think her maturation was slowed by parents that did too much, enabled her, etc. It was really hard to watch but I try not to judge (haha often failing!). They were very supportive parents but it wasn’t matched by her stepping up.

Best wishes!

 

[pearaffair]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/26072663-money-talks

 

[pearaffair]

https://web.archive.org/web/2017120...m/articles/kids_money/charging_kids_rent.html

 

[pearaffair]

If you like her, she has a bunch of articles about money and kids: https://web.archive.org/web/20171201164851/http://www.gailvazoxlade.com:80/articles.html

 

[strawrose]

@SandyinAnaheim great job helping him launch! (I could have sworn there was a clapping emoticon. )

 

[GliderPoss]

Some great advice on this thread and congrats on taking action on this issue!

A few ideas/thoughts:

• She is 20 years old - not a teenager anymore! Treat her as an adult. You do her no favours otherwise...
• She is working - she can pay her own way including rent, her own toiletries, phone, internet, car and contribution to food & utilities. In the real world this would be at least 1/3 of her pay.
• As she shares your living space she needs to do chores. She can take turns to clean! No clean - no dinner/internet etc. There need to be consequences to her actions.
• Encourage her to speak to a careers counselor and maybe intern at local firms to help decide what to study & what career path to go. Lots of people don't know what they want to do at that age but it shouldn't allow them to wallow at home...
• A GAP year overseas is a great idea! I didn't especially love kids but the experience, freedom & responsibility was brilliant for me at age 18.

You are clearly kind & caring parents but essentially you need to make living at home the LESSER option, make it less attractive to her. Give her a good shove off into the real world with responsibility but also all the FUN & joy that comes with being independent!

 

[imitcan]

My husband and I were just talking on the weekend about having a similar conversation with our 22 yr old daughter. New Year, new goals, etc.
Our girl has an undergraduate degree which she did in a different city than the one we live in, so we know she can take care of herself reasonably well. She landed a full-time, permanent position in her field, in our hometown, so little to no commute. I know, crazy lucky! We are giving her one year rent-free from the day she started her job. So come June, it’ll be pay-up time. She would be more than happy to rent an apartment somewhere but rents around here are ridiculous and her entry level salary wouldn’t afford a shoebox near her work.
We’ve talked around the dinner table a number of times with both our kids as to what was expected of them after university, when they’d get real jobs and that was that they’d pay rent and pay for things like personal items, clothes, sports equipment, social lives and gas in our cars, and such. We also explained that if you chose to live at home you’d be expected to save a good chunk of your pay check because we’d charge you much less rent than a landlord would. Thankfully both our kids have good money sense so we don’t believe they’d spend frivolously even if we didn’t charge rent.
My girl does little to nothing around the house. We will definitely be addressing some housekeeping and chores that she’ll need to pick up or her rent will be higher. I have standards (very fastidious about keeping my home neat and clean) and I’m not picking up after her or anyone for free. Her room is her domain and I will continue to encourage her to keep it clean and orderly.
I’ll be back soon to let you know how our “talk” goes.

 

[CHRISTY-DANIELLE]

When this thread popped up recently I was interested. ..my 23 yr old son IS still at home, but ah, naw, he's just slow to launch. THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT. But, just last night he informed us he was not going to finish this last semester of college because he no longer is interested in his chosen field.
Holy cow. I am now scared he will never be on his own. And already the excuses have started, why he isn't looking for work (social anxiety, etc). I've never been good at the tough love thing, I'm such a pushover when it comes to my kids. But, I can see that's clearly not helping him or us. This is not easy to deal with!!
And Thank You @SandyinAnaheim , your post was very helpful!

 

[SandyinAnaheim]

You're most welcome @CHRISTY-DANIELLE! That's why I wrote it. Every situation is different, and I hoped that what we went through would be useful to someone. As I was writing it, I felt that it was coming across as easy and simple, as I really DID try to make it as brief as possible, while maintaining context. But it wasn't. It was SHEER AND UNADULTERATED HELL to live through.

We made it clear he had two options, go to school FT or work FT and pay rent at the going rate. Period. And that rocked his little boat and he wasn't on board at all. But it had to be done, or else he would turn into his other uncle, who is 55 and still lives at home with his mommy, in the garage. No job, no girlfriend, no life. Addicted to food and alcohol. I can't blame him, that's his solace for all the bad decisions he AND his enabling mother have made. The uncle has two siblings that have passed away in the past 5 years due to alcohol-related conditions. It was really ugly to see that all go down. Who wants THAT for their kid?? It's a tough situation, but one has to look at the bigger picture, I think. They HAVE to make a life for themselves, willingly or not. And parents are responsible for making that happen, or not...