‘Failure to Launch’ - What Did/Do You Do?

[the_mother_thing]

Pretty sure DD (20 y/o) is ‘failing to launch’. I was buying my first home when I was her age. And yes, I realize times have changed a little since then for ‘this generation’, but the basics in life haven’t.

DD has had a pretty ‘cushy’ life, never really ‘wanted’ for much, but I’ve not been a ‘helicopter parent’ by any means. I’ve told her for years that IF she was going to school/college, she could continue living at home rent-free. She has access to plenty of money to cover all her college expenses and get a degree debt-free, but has been dragging her feet on that ... and quite frankly, THAT is probably the thing that pisses me off the most, knowing how many other kids want to go to college and can’t due to lacking the funds, and she’s pissing that opportunity away.

Nevertheless, she’s dragging her feet, lacking appreciation & motivation, and taking for granted the things she has, and that the Bank of Mom is always readily available. It’s time for some tough love and for her to gain more responsibility/independence/self-sufficiency and stop being so dependent on me/us for things in order for her to succeed in life as an adult. It’s not that we want her ‘out of the house’; rather, I’ve seen this same scenario play out with a few people in my family/circle (though their kids are a good 5+ years older than DD); we don’t want it to go on THAT long. All that said, she IS a relatively ‘good’ kid in that she doesn’t go out partying, clubbing, drinking, drugs, etc. so I DO count my blessings there.

Some ideas we’re mulling over:

Downsizing her bedroom - in our new home, we gave her the upstairs bonus room as a bedroom since she was the oldest ‘kid’, and it’s a little more ‘private’ than the 4th/guest bedroom. She hasn’t been keeping it up/neat as we’d like, so perhaps eliminating some of the extra space she has will reduce the clutter.

Cell phone bill - that’s a no-brainer, though may combine it with rent idea below for simplicity since she’s on our family plan.

Rent - I’m thinking about having her pay rent to help her learn to prioritize her spending better and prepare her for the real world. I’d probably just put that $$ in a savings account to give back to her when she is ready to move out/on without telling her that plan. And I may give her an option to pay X amount to stay in the Bonus Room, or slightly less to move to the guest bedroom ... that’s how it works in the real world (more space usually = more cost).

Groceries & Incidentals - any special items she likes (aside from the ‘family’ meals/drinks we get/make for the household) and her other ‘high-end wants’ (e.g., Sephora, Ulta, cosmetics/hair products/etc) can be on her dime.

TLDR/In Summary: I’m curious what others have done/do with their off-spring to help them to ‘spring’ on in life, out of the house, etc. How did you approach your kid/s with the conversation & things like this? Has it worked? If you had them pay rent, how much did you ‘charge’ them and what ‘house rules’ did you invoke with regard to them doing so with regard to other household contributions, chores, guests, schedule, etc.? If you made similiar changes, did you deploy them all at once, or via a phased approach?

Thanks, in advance, for any input/experience you might share!

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

What about a complete change? A gap year for a charitable organization or a year as an au pair abroad? Nothing will change your point of view / broaden your horizon like an experience in a different country.

 

[telephone89]

I think your ideas are totally reasonable! I love the idea of her rent money going into an account for a down payment or something. And IMO at 20, her sephora habits should already be her own.
That said, if she is paying rent, you don't really get to dictate how she keeps her room. IMO as long as it's not hazardous (ie food and drink left around for bugs/mice) and just "messy" it's ok, and her space (that she would soon pay for).
Does she do her own laundry? I'd just start making her responsible for her own shit first. Vacuuming the house? Skip her room. She can wash her own dishes (or load into the dishwasher). Do her own laundry. Etc. If you want her more involved in household chores, I'd suggest writing them all out (you can go indepth and separate into everyday vs deepclean/once a year if you're ambitious). Then go around the table, and each person "picks" a chore they will do. Keep going until you're out.

 

[the_mother_thing]

That’s a great idea @kipari but one thing is for sure - DD has zero interest in kids ... doesn’t want any, doesn’t/hasn’t ever really babysat except for staying with DH’s kids for an hour here/there when we had to run out for something. I don’t want to pawn our “problem child” off on someone else, if that makes sense.

I may see about increasing her exposure to some ‘less fortunate’ situations. But she’s not blind to how ‘good’ she has it exactly; she knows/acknowledges it ... it’s contributing & showing appreciation for how good she has it that she needs to work on. I will have to give this avenue more thought ... thanks for suggesting it.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I may see about increasing her exposure to some ‘less fortunate’ situations.

I think this is one of the most valuable lessons and will stay with anyone for the rest of their lives.

However, even something like a language class in Europe will be such a change of point of view. She WILL have to do a lot of stuff herself (get a cell phone contract, bank account, public transportation card, place to live etc etc by herself and within a VERY short time-frame ) and I think it gives you a kick of energy and ultimately a feeling of being able to conquer the world...
My sister did this right after her graduation and before starting university. Great boost of confidence.

I went abroad for a year during my master's. I hadn't had any problems before, but it was a kick-start into real adulthood and the equivalent of a few years in maturity.

 

[TooPatient]

Yep. More than I care to share here. I wish we had private chat available!

I would definitely do (at minimum) all of your ideas plus a list of chores as suggersug above. (With something like a small fine for uncompleted chores)

Also set out consequences for not paying rent. Ramp up or she probably will test and see if you follow through. (So first consequence is small like adding chores or shutting off her access to interInt ramping up so final straw is notice she has to move out -- in hopes she gets minor consequences and doesn't push to test that one!)

 

[lyra]

My daughters still live at home at 28 and 31. There are extenuating circumstances. One is working full time in her field, the other is back at school to change her field completely. Rents are exorbitant where we live.

I have already told them that we will be asking for rent when they can afford it, or they can move out. Or that we might move to a city of our choosing and that they would be on their own regardless at that point. Fair warning. We're looking at a one year countdown.

One thing that you might consider is that your daughter might not actually know what she wants to do as a career. Both of my daughters had trouble pinning it down. Both dealt with ADHD making it even harder. Youngest took forever to get through college. Oldest found that what she chose was a dead end field and she was laid off what she thought was a permanent job--she had been there 3 years. So she knew what things she liked to do and made a career change in that direction. Point being, they can either waste time going to school for something they don't end up liking. Or they can wait a few years (where they must at least have A job), while they mature and decide what would suit them best. Some kids have trouble pinning it down.

Definitely charge rent. Don't do laundry. Don't buy special groceries unless you're providing room and board. Tell her she has to have a job or be going to school. Help her explore the options of careers, and if she picks something you don't like, you have to let her try it anyway. It may be a longer process. I think this is normal, but all we usually hear is that 18 year olds move away and go to college and then get careers. I think there are ever more kids floundering though.

 

[the_mother_thing]

@AV_ I’ve offered to take her or even have her go on her own. I don’t think she really wants to ‘go away’ to college, as every time we’ve talked about it, she’s always indicated a preference to go somewhere local. She’s not really a social butterfly, and more introverted, so that doesn’t surprise me really. In fact, her idea was to go to the local community/junior college for her lower level classes because it’s cheaper, saving some of her college money to transfer to another school for her upper level courses that are more expensive. So she’s no dummy. LOL

@telephone89 She does do her own laundry, dishes, etc., and most of her ‘Sephora’ stuff has been at her own expense, but I’ve always covered the basics like her shampoo/conditioner, body wash, etc., so those are the things (along with her other personal maintenance stuff like hair cuts/color) that I’m going to add to her wallet vs. mine going forward. Overall, it’s more about her contributing to the household ... outside her own laundry/dishes. We’ve done the ‘chore list’ thing, and she’s repeatedly “forgotten” (e.g. blown it off), which we find very disrespectful and have told her such, especially when the 8 & 10 year olds in the house don’t need to be reminded. The only difference is they get an allowance as young kids, and she - as an adult - has the benefit of a free roof over her head. I’ve cut her internet access, even taken her computer power cord ... a few times. But at 20 yrs old, I don’t feel like I should need to punish her like a 10 yr old by ‘taking away her toys’, KWIM?

The thing with her ‘neatness’ (or lack thereof) is that hubs and I are both neat/clean freaks, and while we may not ‘live’ in her room, it is OUR home and we have standards for all rooms in the house, especially since we also have two younger kids who look at the examples around them as a basis for behavior. And I don’t think that’s unreasonable, as any place one might rent likely has certain ‘standards’ or rules to follow. And we do periodically need to access the attic storage space off the bonus room that she occupies. I’m not talking “keep it white-glove ready” clean at all times; rather, just keep the clutter down so we can get to the attic when needed, empty her trash without being reminded, no drinks (except water) or food upstairs, vacuum/dust it 1x/week, and clean up after herself in the bathroom (which she shares with the younger two kids when they are here, so they all take turns cleaning it). Part of the problem here is admittedly my ‘fault’. When I was a single parent before marrying hubs, I had a housekeeper who took care of much of the house cleaning stuff for us since I was always short on time. Now, since Hubs is retired and I work from home, we decided to forgo a housekeeper and manage things ourselves as we have the time.

@lyra I’ve definitely considered that she really may not know what she wants to do long term, though she’s said for a couple years now that she wants to get into the computer gaming industry from a design/development perspective. While I’m not a fan, if that’s what she wants to do and she can make a living with it, fine by me. I’ve even seen/suggested some gaming businesses in our area that she could look into and consider working/interning at in the mean time to get exposure. But at the same time, there are lower level college courses she could be taking/knocking out of the way, and she’s not. So it seems like a laziness thing. She is working though, so that is good. But overall, when it comes to college/career, she just seems to be lacking motivation, but I think having her cover her own living expenses going forward will provide some of that motivation, as her current salary won’t get her very far. She’ll either ‘see the light’ and get her ass in college, or be forced to take on a second job to start funding her life while also making plans for moving out on her own or with friends. I’ve always made clear to her from an early age that the only ‘free ride’ she’d get in this life is her college fully paid for by her dad & I if she chooses to go/finishes before she turns 25; if she doesn’t go to college, she’d better be prepared to work hard & often.

For those who have charged rent, how much did you charge and what were the rules you laid out? Did you also have them doing other stuff around the house in addition to paying rent? If so, what and how often, etc?

 

[Austina]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for her to keep her room clean and tidy. As you say, it’s your house and she should respect that you want it kept a certain way.

One time, when I’d ironed all DS’s clothes and put them in his room asking him to put them away, I went up to his room and not only had he not put the clothes away, but they were in a crumpled heap. That was the final straw for me, I got out everything he had and dumped it on his bed, so that when he got back late, he couldn’t actually get into his bed. I also stopped ironing his clothes, and when he wanted to wear something to go out, he didn’t have anything ironed. I told him there was no point me ironing them if he wasn’t going to put them away, or just throw them on the sofa. He was about the same age as your DD, if he wanted to act like a brat, that’s how he got treated.

We charged him rent when he started working, not a huge amount, but enough for him to realise that he needed to pay something towards his keep.

 

[the_mother_thing]

So for rent, does $225 (bonus room) or $175 (guest BR) sound reasonable, too much, or not enough? DD makes about $1500/month at her job after taxes. And I am trying to be cognizant of the additional expenses she’ll need to pay for that she hasn’t been.

 

[lyra]

That's way better than what we will be charging, which is $600/month each person, possibly $400 for younger daughter. That's about what it costs us to provide shelter, amenities and most food (not all).

 

[the_mother_thing]

That's way better than what we will be charging, which is $600/month each person, possibly $400 for younger daughter. That's about what it costs us to provide shelter, amenities and most food (not all).

Good point; thank you! I was just tossing out some numbers as a starting point. I probably should rethink the amounts/options, considering there are utilities, internet/tv, etc. to consider as well. I plan to have her buy her own ‘extra’ food stuff, so I won’t factor that in, but will factor in the ‘household’ food that she does partake in.

 

[msop04]

Good point; thank you! I was just tossing out some numbers as a starting point. I probably should rethink the amounts/options, considering there are utilities, internet/tv, etc. to consider as well. I plan to have her buy her own ‘extra’ food stuff, so I won’t factor that in, but will factor in the ‘household’ food that she does partake in.

First, let me say that I have a 3 yo, so zero experience with older kids/young adults/adult children. That said, I am so proud that you're taking steps to make your DD... well... "grow up" -- for lack of a better phrase. RE the rent amount, I feel it should be at least 1/3 of what she is earning after taxes (and that's pretty generous). If she were in the "real world," it would likely be much more when you add all the utilities and fees... and without all the other benefits of Casa de Mommy, if you know what I mean.

Kudos to you, @the_mother_thing!

 

[telephone89]

I will still disagree about imposing your level of cleanliness on her paid space, because if she was renting a room her roommates would have 0 access, landlord needs 24h notice to enter, etc. Your situation is unique that you say you still require access (not sure how often one uses an attic), and the shared bathroom. I think telling her to vacuum once a week, do xyz, etc is going to leave you ragged as you're still "moming" her quite a bit. Does the smaller room have a lock on the door?

For rent, I like the idea of splitting up all the fixed bills and she pays her share. It gets complicated if you have some kids some times, but you can figure out approx how many days a month they are there and deduct that. I agree with pps that I was thinking more like $500 per month is a more realistic number.

 

[kgizo]

If it were me I’d start the grocery/incidentals you mentioned immediately.

I don’t like the idea of rent and chores. I would charge rent and tell her that she is expected to keep her room “decent” and clean up after herself in all other areas (no dishes in sink, towels left out, etc.). Adding chores to it sounds like you are still in a parent/child relationship when you are trying to transition to a more mature relationship. If after 3-6 months of the new arrangement you aren’t happy with the way she treats you or your house then treat her like an adult and have her move out. Let her know that is on the table upfront if you are willing to do it.

Since you want to help her transition to adulthood I suggest starting at $250/mo for the first few months and then go to $350. That will give her time to figure things out about going to college and living with you rent free or moving out into an apartment with a roommate or two.

I like your idea of keeping the $$ in an account without her knowledge. Perhaps you can give it back to her if you see her being ‘successful’ (1 yr of college) or keep it for an emergency fund for her just in case her car dies, she has a roommate who skips out on the bills, etc while she is figuring things out.

Good luck to you both!

 

[Tekate]

Is she working? My sister told me 20 years ago that kids today are minimum TEN YEARS less mature than we were at the same age, puts your DD at around 10 probably more like 13. She lacks motivation or she is unsure what she wants to be, my son who is 27 now said just 2 weeks ago when he was here that he had zero clue what he wanted to major in and he started college at almost 19 as he's an Oct bday, so he started with business... your daughter hasn't had the need to find her passion or she is afraid.. At 20 I was working in a ski lodge.. no car, no money per se, but times they sure have a changed.

Just try talking to her, ask her why she is sitting on her butt and not doing something.. I could tell you a story about my younger son but he was already out of college at 22.. entitled, spoiled ? yup. Makes you wonder about THEIR kids..

She sounds like a good young adult.. suggest counseling (ala career or someone to explore what/where she is going).

A swift kick always helps too but it does hurt the parent/young adult child relationship till they get in their late 20s.

 

[Bron357]

If she’s not a college studying what is she doing with her time?
In my family it was either be studying or be working.
If the latter, board was paid. Some families later “return” this board money after ”launch” to help with rent, purchase of furnishings etc.
We all want the best for our kids and times have changed. I have friends whose adult children not only failed to “launch” and their partners are now living in the family home at 30 plus. And these adult kids are having lovely life with overseas holidays and driving exotic cars ie NOT saving for their own house! It’s a modern problem for many families.
One friend even sold the family home to move into a 2 bed apartment to get the adult kids on their way. I remember her telling me “and David (the 32 year old son) was like - what!!! This apartment has no en-suite for me or garaging for my car”.
Your only real choice is tough love and making “living at home” not as cushy. She needs to be contributing to the household expenses AND the household chores because that’s real life. If she has a luxury bedroom, free Wi Fi, free food, free electricity, free phone and doesn’t pull her weight with household chores that has to stop or she’ll never change by her own. I’d just start slowly making living at home less and less like a free ride to encourage “launch” and definitely, if she isn’t studying she had better start looking for a job.
Once she realizes how horrible it is to work long hours at a boring job for hardly any money she’ll be more likely to get herself off to college so she can get a great job later on.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

This is a good kid, right? So, for openers she should keep her room decent. Just tell her! To me what you really want is for her to go to school. So, I would tell her that she must take two courses, at nite if she wants, in order to get free rent from you. She needs a push from the adults in her life, but not petty punishments. I mean, really, shampoo? Explain to her that she may not know what she wants to do, but in the meantime she can take required courses part-time. If her grades are good--no rent and you will pay for the courses. She will ask how much rent would be. I'd tell her $400.00.
I know you have told her these things already. Make conditions contingent on school.
Annette

 

[Matata]

Perhaps she's failing to launch because she knows she has a dependable safety net. I'd tell her that it's time to move out and into a place of her own where she'll have to learn to set and stick to a budget and get more real-world adulting experience than she will be able to while living at home.

 

[luv2sparkle]

I have also had more than my share of kids that are at home way too long. I have at one point kicked a couple out. I have one who is a college grad, with no loans and he is moving back in 8 weeks-he is 29 and has been living overseas teaching english in different countries for the last few years. I don't expect him to stay too long though. My youngest is 22 and is just starting to do well in college (which he is paying for) thanks to a very motivated girlfriend.
My two (out of 5) that live at home don't pay rent. They both pay their own cell bills and other bills like car insurance. They mostly buy their own food. The youngest is living without a car because of an accident he had, so we are driving him to work occasionally. Girlfriend drives him too. He is saving for his own car and we will not be helping him. We had told all of our kids that we would pay for college in full if they worked hard in high school and pulled decent grades. Only one took us up on it, although we sent our daughter to school for hair.
The thing I really want to suggest to you, is to let her pay for all her stuff, but not to make your home a war zone. In the big scheme of things a messy room, is not that big of a deal. You are fortunate that she is a really good kid and not a partier. The couple that we had that wanted to party, we came down way harder on. My two are responsible for their rooms and their bathroom and I set a schedule for when each does it. Otherwise, it wouldn't get done. I remind them often that if they don't chose to do it, they will pay me to (the price goes to whatever I think it merits at the time), they have one day leeway for work or school, or they can move out immediately.
My husband has always said we should have never bought a bigger house. If we would have stayed at 1000 square feet for 7 people they would all have been dying to get out, lol.
Your daughter is pretty young still. Not many 20 year olds really know what they want to do in life. The cost is so high for education, that I think they are overwhelmed that they will make the wrong choice.
Forcing a kid to leave feels terrible, even if it is the right thing to do for them. It was for us, and both kids have told us they were glad we did, but I hated every second. I felt bad, worried and got very little sleep. They have to have rules to live in your house, but I guess I would give your daughter some rules to follow and bills of her own to pay but also a big measure of grace. I think you are blessed beyond measure that she is not into partying and is just having a harder time finding the right path, providing she is working and paying for her own expenses and not lounging around the house all day.

 

[lyra]

Maybe I should have mentioned that the only thing we provide for our 2 kids is a roof and dinner about 4 times a week. No laundry services, cleaning services, wake up alarms, breakfast or lunches, etc. They pay their own bills, cell phones, one has a car payment, and both have school loans. Our youngest did live on her own for a while during one of her college stints. It cost her a lot of $$$, and she is reluctant to do that again, but like I said, I've given her fair warning.

My husband is away from home several days a week, and sometimes a couple of weeks at a time. I don't mind having company, although to be honest I almost never see the youngest because she has a long commute and long work hours. My older daughter drives me to all my medical appointments and does a lot around the house. So they do give added value, lol.

 

[nala]

First let me congratulate you on your decision to nudge her in the right direction and for taking accountability for her behaviors. I have always been very frank with my only dd when it comes to finances and the real world. I never hesitate to remind her that I was paying rent at 16. But She has been hearing this song since she was 7 when my expectations were that she keep her room clean. She didn’t get her iPhone until her senior year. Yes. I did that. Taught her delayed gratification and that she had to earn stuff. She has cooked and cleaned and done her laundry since she was 9. She is now a junior at Cal. She pays her bills and food and books and personal expenses. She has landed a summer internship in New York this summer and she has agreed to use her earnings to pay for tuition. She is home for winter break and working full time Bc she wants to make sure she can pay her bills during the second semester. The kid also works while at school and runs a number of organizations.
All this to say that It will prove to be a challenge for you to “ be cruel only to be kind” and you will need a lot of support to follow through. It’s not gonna happen overnight Bc it took her a lifetime to acquire her current behaviors which you reinforced. Good luck. Stay strong.
I want to add that I have older siblings who resent our childhood poverty and the fact that mom made us pitch in half our paycheck to pay rent and bills. They have coddled their kids for fear of becoming like mom. They failed to realize that thanks to mom, they are all doing well financially. Thanks to them, their 24 to 32 yr olds live at home rent-free and spend or rather waste money on bars, Uber’s,nails, hair, technology, etc. Oh yeah. Four of them brought their spouses to live at mom and dad’s. It’s like they found other failures to launch to marry. And they have no plans to move out. None.

 

[strawrose]

Is she having trouble finding classes to finish graduating? Sometimes the schedule doesn’t allow for that. I wonder if there is also the issue of depression... people lack motivation because of it. I had trouble dealing with failure (economic downturn) and went to counseling, which helped a lot.

When I moved out and got married, the housing situation was absurdly expensive ($2,150 per month for a tiny apartment in a medium-demand area). My parents wanted us to live with them, like so many of their friends’ children. NOPE! I’m happy for the independence. Hopefully, she’ll eventually see the plus side to that soon.

 

[LaylaR]

I do not have children. But I was a pampered daughter. The one way I differed with your daughter was that academically I was never unfocused. I finished college in 4 years (which my parents paid for in full) and went to law school (loans) and graduated and took the bar and then worked full time. You know what one of my motivating factors was? My step-father. He’s a very nice man, please don’t misunderstand me, my mother and I were lucky he chose to spend his life with us. But, he drives me insane. Lovely man. I cannot live with him in the same house again. You know what I’ve never thought? “Oh well, if this doesn’t work out, at least I can move back home.” Um, no. Not an option.

But we did live with my MIL for four years after I graduated law school. I was either studying for the bar or working. DH was working the whole time. My MIL has a 3000+ house that she lives in all alone. And my husband’s siblings had all taken turns living at home for a few of years before they got settled as well.

We paid rent. We paid for groceries. We did all the cooking and the cleaning. MIL only washed her own clothes and cleaned her own room. We paid for repairs on the house, upgraded fixtures and plumbing and paid for new carpet, painted the walls, etc. And when my MIL’s mother died and her father moved in as well, we took care of him. I thought I was aware of how much of a favor my MIL was doing us by letting us live with her. We definitely added value.

But I was wrong. Living at home is such a huge privilege. And, no, most children (including me) do not appreciate it enough. Someone else is ultimately responsible for the maintenance and care of the home, you don’t have to worry if your landlord is going to raise your rent by 400 each year (this has happened to me). You get sick and can’t make your rent? Mom gives you a break, she takes care of you. Even when you are paying for rent and other things, it’s relatively stress free and easy because it’s not YOUR responsibility if things go wrong. It’s not your credit that takes a hit if you can’t pay rent. Your utilities that will be shut off if you pay don’t pay the bills. There’s a safety net. And that’s worth a lot.

Here’s an example of what I mean. Our local coffee shop here treats their employees terribly and they lost a lot of those people to Starbucks, who in contrast treats their employees really well. Now, when these kids (we are friendly with them) started working at Starbucks, they were so happy with it! But their fellow employees, who had not had the experiences they did at the local coffee house, complained about everything. They had no idea how good they had it! Because they didn’t have the right perspective. What your daughter needs most is something to compare what she has right now to. And the comparison needs to be UNFAVORABLE. Not comfortable. Decidedly uncomfortable, actually, is ideal.

My primary advice is this: I think she should go abroad and/or live somewhere else for a year. Someone else suggested that, and I think it’s great advice. One of the best things I did was move out at 18 even though I had other people giving me money, I was still the one in charge of paying my rent, my bills, my books, and budgeting. And it was a great experience.

A lot of my peers, that didn’t have the focus I did, were encouraged to teach English abroad in lieu of starting college. Or they worked for a year as a waiter in NY, or Paris or Italy and funded their own adventures away from home. And those that did these things grew up more quickly. And found motivation. You know what sucks? Waiting tables 40+ hours a week when you are sick for rent money. You know what most people would like to do instead of that? Get an education that will let them have a better job, with benefits, and time off.

Several of the ‘failure to launch’ kids I knew straightened up real quick after a year off when they were NOT allowed to live at home. The ones that were allowed to live at home: not so much.

If you do want to let her keep living at home, instead of pushing her out of the nest for a year. Then your calculation on rent money/mortgage shouldn’t be based on what she makes. All my life, my rent has easily been at least a 1/3rd of what I’m making. Sometimes more. That’s just reality. And I paid renter’s insurance too. And utilities. And my landlord’s never cared what I made, or what was comfortable for me to afford. They had a fixed cost they charged me based on their needs. Not mine.

If you want to know how much to charge, look at Craigslist or the paper. See what other people are charging for rented rooms in your area. Then take the monthly household expenses she probably knows nothing about it: home owners insurance, the utility bills, all of it. And sit her down show her those bills. And then divide the total for them monthly by the number of people in your home. And tell her she is responsible for her share in addition to her rent. Do the same with your grocery budget if she eats at home regularly. And of course, her cell and other bills, including her share of the monthly car insurance and any car payments where applicable. If she watches TV she needs to pay for cable (especially if she has one in her room). She uses the Wifi? She pays for that too.

Then tell her she’s responsible for all of that in exactly 30 days after your talk, and every 30 days thereafter as long as she is living at home and not going to school, with good grades, full time. If she goes to school only part time, you still make her pay all her expenses, but waive the rent, homeowners insurance and utilities, not the rest. If her current job isn’t making her enough to pay that amount and maintain her standard of comfort: THAT IS A GOOD THING. Why? Because she’ll need to get a second job. Get a better job. Or an education. Those are her choices.

Basing the rent on what she can reasonably afford? That’s not reality. What are you teaching her? That a job that pays her $1,500 a month (18k a year!) is enough to keep her comfortable, at home, where it is safe. She has no motivation to do more, to want more. But basing the amount she pays you on what she would pay in the real world, including all of her other expenses—even the ones she doesn’t know about like homeowners insurance, etc.—that’s a wake-up call.

And that’s your goal. A wake up call for her. So she might need a little more tough love and a lot less consideration for her comfort on your part. Uncomfortable is motivating. You know what’s not? Comfort.

I would have happily quit lawschool and moved home if that had been an option, but my step-dad made that an uncomfortable choice. So I finished. Because I looked at my other options, and I realized that my best path to comfort was independence, a JD and passing the bar. So, that's what I did. If you want your daughter to 'launch' you need to make sure that she realizes that making $1,500 a month, with a high school diploma, and living at home is NOT comfortable any longer. And yes, make her keep her room clean. If she doesn't like that. She can move out.

 

[princessandthepear]

My SO is going through this with his 20 year old daughter. She is ADHD, introverted socially awkward but a good kid. She took one community college class at his urging and failed it. She hid her floundering grades from him until it was too late to find her a tutor. However, she enjoys her waitress job and has no desire for a better paying or a second job. My SO has bailed her out twice since she keeps overdrawing her banking account. She pays for cell phone, car insurance and any extra special food or social events. She does do chores but would blow them off if he didn't cut her off the internet periodically. I suspect that she is very comfortable in her current situation and afraid to fail again. SO would like to see her go back to school but I don't believe that she is capable. I would like to see her find another or a better paying job.
Maybe you should decide if college is the priority or moving out. If college then tell her that she needs to get her required classes(english, speech, math, humanities out of the way in the next two years if she does not enroll then ask her to move out and set a date in which she must leave by with the understanding that she is welcome to move back in if she will attend college and maintain her grade point average. If the goal is to move out, then determine how much she needs for first and last month rent, utilities, food for two months, Set up an amount that will be deducted from her pay until she reaches the total. In the meantime look at rentals with her. When she reaches the proper saved amount give her a deadline in which to move out and help her find a place.

 

[LinSF]

First let me congratulate you on your decision to nudge her in the right direction and for taking accountability for her behaviors. I have always been very frank with my only dd when it comes to finances and the real world. I never hesitate to remind her that I was paying rent at 16. But She has been hearing this song since she was 7 when my expectations were that she keep her room clean. She didn’t get her iPhone until her senior year. Yes. I did that. Taught her delayed gratification and that she had to earn stuff. She has cooked and cleaned and done her laundry since she was 9. She is now a junior at Cal. She pays her bills and food and books and personal expenses. She has landed a summer internship in New York this summer and she has agreed to use her earnings to pay for tuition. She is home for winter break and working full time Bc she wants to make sure she can pay her bills during the second semester. The kid also works while at school and runs a number of organizations.
All this to say that It will prove to be a challenge for you to “ be cruel only to be kind” and you will need a lot of support to follow through. It’s not gonna happen overnight Bc it took her a lifetime to acquire her current behaviors which you reinforced. Good luck. Stay strong.
I want to add that I have older siblings who resent our childhood poverty and the fact that mom made us pitch in half our paycheck to pay rent and bills. They have coddled their kids for fear of becoming like mom. They failed to realize that thanks to mom, they are all doing well financially. Thanks to them, their 24 to 32 yr olds live at home rent-free and spend or rather waste money on bars, Uber’s,nails, hair, technology, etc. Oh yeah. Four of them brought their spouses to live at mom and dad’s. It’s like they found other failures to launch to marry. And they have no plans to move out. None.

From one Cal grad to the mother of another. Good job!

 

[Indylady]

What is she doing instead of school?

 

[AV_]

@the_mother_thing I understand only too well. I crave Home too (much to be said) - it so happens that I have loved stuff universities do even more & came to belong. I cannot know what your daughter loves, but - US universities seemed to have it all (I was a postgraduate student and fellow, looking in awe at the inconceivable life of the undergrads... - that I would have never wished to have anything whatsoever to do with, and there was plenty of room above & beyond away from all that).

I cannot know if I can really help unless we talk.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I really want to thank EVERYONE for your input, experience, suggestions, ideas, etc. There are a lot of great suggestions in this thread, and I’ll be going back through to make some notes and do more research before we decide on exactly what plan we will deploy with her. Parenting really is the best & worst of times, and it’s times like this that it’s so hard to dish out some tough love, but it’s really for her own good/best interests. Again, overall, she’s a good kid. She just needs to do more to transition into a place of independence, responsibility, and respect. Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to contribute & share.

@msop04 Thank you; I will definitely reconsider the amounts I was tossing around. It’s not really ‘about the money’; rather, the lesson to be learned about how to manage her money and prioritize her spending for needs vs. wants.

@telephone89 We can agree to disagree about expectations for maintaining her space. My feeling is: any other place she would rent would have rules/do’s & don’ts. Also, the objective is to instill more pride and care in maintaining ‘her space’ vs. letting things accumulate. And again, in the end, it is OUR home, and we have plans for that room whenever she does move out, so we don’t want to have to invest a lot in rehabbing it because she allowed dust to build up, carpet to get dirty, etc. As for the attic, we generally get in there at least once/month, as that is where we keep our suitcases, holiday decorations, etc.

@kgizo Thanks for the thoughts about chores & paying rent. The only reason I feel she should still contribute to ‘chores’ (though we call them ‘contributions’ with all the kids so they understand it’s part of helping care for the space you enjoy) is because she would still use ‘common spaces’ such as the kitchen, living/family rooms, etc. And anywhere else she’d live/rent, she’d have to help take care of those spaces as well. But we’re not talking about anything major here ... vacuum ‘common’ spaces once/week, if the recycling bin is full, carry it out, etc. We’re not asking her to wash windows, repaint the siding, etc.

@Tekate Overall, she is a good kid; just stumbling/having trouble finding the motivation to pave her own path, I think. Yes, she works pretty close to full time. I have talked with her, and she has ‘answers’ for a lot of things, like what she’s interested in and wants to do; it seems what’s missing is the catalyst/trigger for her to get off her ass and just do it. That’s why I’m looking at the rent option. My thought process is this: with a college degree, you are far more likely to earn (initially and long term) a higher salary than without one, and working in - as she is now - in retail for the rest of her life. When she feels that struggle and sees that her current salary doesn’t get her the ‘things’ she’d like to have after bills/essentials, she’ll hopefully be more motivated to get in school (where she’d not have to pay rent, etc.), then be able to get a higher paying, less frustrating job/career.

@Bron357 I can’t imagine the audacity of kid saying that about no en suite/garage! She does work almost full time (36-38 hrs/week). Aside from that, her main hobby/time waster is gaming. Hubs and I have been talking about it being too comfortable/easy for her, which is why I came on here for others’ experiences. We realize it is time for tough love, not only for her benefit but also because we have two younger kids in the house and don’t want them to think this is how you’re supposed to ‘do it’. The only reason we cut DD some slack is because we had a lot of transition earlier this year with us getting married, moving, consolidating households, etc. It was a lot of change for everybody. But in the real world, you don’t always get a ‘grace period’ to adapt; sometimes, you have to take the change that comes and just deal. That time, for her, has come. I noted in my response to @Tekate above exactly my thoughts around her seeing the light of working in her current job long term and hoping it prods her to get in school.

@smitcompton Yes, she’s a good kid in that she’s not a party animal, doesn’t go out drinking, getting mixed up with wrong crowds, etc. And of all the jobs she’s held over the years, every one of her managers has sung her praises about her as an employee. It’s her ‘home life’ and future planning that needs work. She’s not outright ‘disrespectful’ towards us; rather, it’s almost more a passive or inadvertent disrespect, IMO, by not doing the basic things we have asked of her (and frankly, at her age, shouldn’t have to keep asking) like keep her room neat, pick up after herself in ‘common spaces’, etc. She’s just gotten quite lazy, and that’s not a quality we wish to tolerate. As for school, yes, I want her to go. But in the end, it’s her decision and she will have to live with the consequences of that decision. Hubs and I were talking about how - growing up - we both saw our parents’ struggles, and we joke that we were born with plastic spoon in our mouths. We both wanted better for ourselves and our kids, and worked hard to be able to live the life we have now, and for him to be retired at 46. I think part of the problem with DD is she’s never really seen or experienced ‘struggle’ to appreciate what it takes to have what we have; she’s only ever known her ‘oh so comfortable’ life. I don’t want to just throw her out on the streets (I don’t think she has the survival skills), but I want her to experience some struggle in hopes she ‘gets it’; and if she doesn’t, then it may be time for more drastic experiences.

@Matata This is exactly it - the dependable safety net. That’s why we’re looking for opportunities to cut holes in that net before we release it altogether. As I noted to @smitcompton above, just being realistic/honest, DD doesn’t have the necessary survival skills to go fully out on her own yet; that’s what this plan is all about - giving her that experience so she can take the next step (if she does not go to college). I’ve told her repeatedly that if she is not enrolled in college by her 21st bday, it’s time to go. That date is approaching this coming year, and we think it’s best to ‘transition’ her to that upcoming reality vs. just dump her in it and potentially have her beating down the door later with a heap of debt/trouble/etc.

@luv2sparkle I agree we’re lucky she’s not a party animal/wild child; but the flip side is, at home, she’s a bit lazy and just doesn’t show initiative/motivation. I supposed I’d still prefer to have the latter, knowing what some parents of partiers have seen/dealt with. Nonetheless, it’s still behavior that needs to change. And she can’t use the cost of college as an excuse because it’s covered; the money is there ... she just needs to go and do something, even just knocking out the lower level required courses for the time being while she continues to figure out the ‘bigger picture’. And yes, thinking about the day (if it comes to that) that we need to force her out is not something I enjoy thinking about as a mother. Growing up, it was a joke that she and I always said she’d live with me forever. I’m afraid she may not have realized that isn’t how it really works.

@nala Yes, it is indeed a challenge to be cruel to be kind. My only saving grace in thinking about that is - thankfully - she’s already acknowledged a few times things I’ve said in the past (about lessons she’ll learn in life) that have become reality to her (the old ‘yea mom, you were right ...”). So in having this conversation and putting these new ‘demands’ on her, I’m hopeful the end result - even if it’s a few years down the road - will be the same ... that’s she’ll eventually appreciate the lessons learned even if they were hard at the time.

@strawrose No, she’s not having trouble finding classes. We live in an area that has a plethora of colleges/universities that offer just about every type of curriculum/degree you can imagine. It’s motivation to get off her ass and do it that is lacking. I think that when the time comes that she gets a taste of independence, she’ll kick her own ass for having dragged her feet for so long.

@LaylaR Thank you so much for your post. You make exactly ALL of the points that I’m trying to address. And you’re right - she IS too ‘comfortable’; I said that to hubs when we talked recently, that we need to make it uncomfortable for her. Not in a ‘we don’t love you’ way, but financially, responsibility-wise, etc. And that’s my goal ... expose her to just how uncomfortable and difficult life can really be. You also make excellent points about determining the cost of her rent, that it’s not based on her income, but what the market demand is. I’ll have to sit down and do some more research and figure all of this out on paper to arrive at a realistic amount.

@princessandthepear I’ve been in that situation a couple times with her ... bailing out her overdrafted account. She knows that is NOT going to happen again. She’s paid me back each time it happened, but after the second time, I told her she’ll be responsible for resolving it, and going without for awhile until she does, and have to pay the overdraft fees herself, that the ‘Bank of Mom’ is officially out of business. She’s been doing much better with that, and actually keeping money in her savings account as well. But she’s not ready to be tossed out right now, or maybe I’m not ready to toss her out now, primarily because I know she’s not yet equipped to succeed even in a ‘bare bones’ way. And I’m just being real about it. If she won’t go to college, she’ll learn this ‘life lesson’ first-hand from us, then it’ll be time to move out. If she chooses not to go to college, I want to make sure I’m at least doing what I can to equip her to function/manage on her own vs. just dumping her out there. Then, if she fails, it’s on her, and we’ll deal with that then.

@Indylady She is working almost full time. She isn’t much of a social butterfly though, so when she’s not working, she’s usually at home, on her computer, or talking w/friends. She’s definitely more of an introvert, and keeps a small circle of friends.

@AV_ I think - if she actually went to a couple college tours and saw what was available for her to do (aside from school) - she may actually enjoy it. But being an introvert, I think the idea of living/being around so many people all of the time is not her thing. That’s why she initially said she wanted to stay local/at home while attending college, which is fine ... if she’d actually register and go.

 

[lyra]

My oldest daughter has gone through 2 college diploma programs (on her second one now) that required a portion of the time be committed to work placement positions. The program she's in right now, she scored a really good paid position, which lasts 4 months. These kind of programs are pretty common, and really give the student a great idea what the actual job would entail. Plus it gives them work experience in the field. Honestly, while my daughters both worked since they were 16, it took them longer than "usual" to figure out what their strengths were and how to use that to choose a career. I'm also onboard with the idea of a year abroad if it can be done safely. Great confidence booster.