whiteflash v. hpdiamonds/infinity

[Harriet]

Date: 6/15/2009 2:45:31 PM
Author: Maisie
I don't think Whiteflash actually cut their diamonds. I think they buy them in. With Infinity you know that less than 1000 are cut every year. Thats a nice kind of exclusivity. (I don't know if I spelled that correctly lol!).

How is it relevant how many stones each vendor cuts or has cut each year? By the above reasoning, Infinity may be more exclusive than Cartier. Stuinkc, I have a Whiteflash diamond (caveat: it was bought when Brian Gavin was the "eye") which continues to mesmerise me. Pick the stone that you find more beautiful.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 6/15/2009 9:52:18 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 6/15/2009 2:45:31 PM
Author: Maisie
I don''t think Whiteflash actually cut their diamonds. I think they buy them in. With Infinity you know that less than 1000 are cut every year. Thats a nice kind of exclusivity. (I don''t know if I spelled that correctly lol!).

How is it relevant how many stones each vendor cuts or has cut each year? By the above reasoning, Infinity may be more exclusive than Cartier. Stuinkc, I have a Whiteflash diamond (caveat: it was bought when Brian Gavin was the ''eye'') which continues to mesmerise me. Pick the stone that you find more beautiful.

Exactly.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 6/15/2009 9:52:18 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 6/15/2009 2:45:31 PM

Author: Maisie

I don''t think Whiteflash actually cut their diamonds. I think they buy them in. With Infinity you know that less than 1000 are cut every year. Thats a nice kind of exclusivity. (I don''t know if I spelled that correctly lol!).

How is it relevant how many stones each vendor cuts or has cut each year? By the above reasoning, Infinity may be more exclusive than Cartier. Stuinkc, I have a Whiteflash diamond (caveat: it was bought when Brian Gavin was the ''eye'') which continues to mesmerise me. Pick the stone that you find more beautiful.

The reason that Infinity is producing about 1000 diamonds per year is because Paul has taken a boutique approach to producing his diamonds... Instead of having a different cutter craft each section of the diamond and then having the next cutter have to adjust his work to "what the last guy did" which is pretty much the industry standard for how to cut a diamond... One guy cuts the table, another guy cuts the pavilion, another guy cuts the crown and so on... If you''ve ever had a house built and listened to the various contractors complain about having to adjust and change things around based on the last guy''s work, you might be able to appreciate how this can affect diamond cutting... So Paul approached the challenge a different way and trained his cutters to work the stone from start to finish, it takes a little longer to cut a diamond that way, but the production quality and facet-by-facet consistency is wonderful. Naturally it limits how many diamonds Infinity can produce in a year, but of all the cutters I''ve ever had the pleasure of working with, I find his production to be the most consistent.

 

[Harriet]

Todd,
From a consumer''s perspective, consistency does not matter since we are not buying in bulk.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:07:52 PM
Author: Harriet
Todd,
From a consumer''s perspective, consistency does not matter since we are not buying in bulk.

Perhaps, but I believe that the very reason that dealers like White Flash, Good Old Gold, High Performance Diamonds, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Nice Ice, etc. enjoy the reputation here on Price Scope that they do is because they are consistent in their standards of quality, their passion for excellence and their desire to provide customers with a high level of customer service.

You mention "Brian Gavin''s eye" and I know exactly what you mean... I''ve known Brian Gavin for longer than I can remember and he''s nothing if consistent... When I spoke with Lesley earlier today about the diamonds they had that might be of interest to one of our clients and I said "is it Hearts & Arrows" and Lesley said "yes, it''s one of Brian''s H&A''s" I knew exactly what she meant because I''m familiar with his standards and they are familiar with mine. This is consistency, is it not?

If a consumer buys "Diamond Brand X" from a diamond vendor who has built a reputation for being precise and selling a product of a specific quality and has the confidence to recommend that brand of diamond to another consumer, that recommendation is made on the premise that the quality of the cut and visual performance will be consistent... If the vendors here on PS were inconsistent in the product that they sold or their level of customer service, they would not fare well on the forum for very long.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:22:11 PM
Author: Todd Gray

Date: 6/15/2009 10:07:52 PM
Author: Harriet
Todd,
From a consumer''s perspective, consistency does not matter since we are not buying in bulk.

Perhaps, but I believe that the very reason that dealers like White Flash, Good Old Gold, High Performance Diamonds, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Nice Ice, etc. enjoy the reputation here on Price Scope that they do is because they are consistent in their standards of quality, their passion for excellence and their desire to provide customers with a high level of customer service.

You mention ''Brian Gavin''s eye'' and I know exactly what you mean... I''ve known Brian Gavin for longer than I can remember and he''s nothing if consistent... When I spoke with Lesley earlier today about the diamonds they had that might be of interest to one of our clients and I said ''is it Hearts & Arrows'' and Lesley said ''yes, it''s one of Brian''s H&A''s'' I knew exactly what she meant because I''m familiar with his standards and they are familiar with mine. This is consistency, is it not?

If a consumer buys ''Diamond Brand X'' from a diamond vendor who has built a reputation for being precise and selling a product of a specific quality and has the confidence to recommend that brand of diamond to another consumer, that recommendation is made on the premise that the quality of the cut and visual performance will be consistent... If the vendors here on PS were inconsistent in the product that they sold or their level of customer service, they would not fare well on the forum for very long.

+1 well said Todd.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:22:11 PM
Author: Todd Gray

Date: 6/15/2009 10:07:52 PM
Author: Harriet
Todd,
From a consumer''s perspective, consistency does not matter since we are not buying in bulk.

Perhaps, but I believe that the very reason that dealers like White Flash, Good Old Gold, High Performance Diamonds, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Nice Ice, etc. enjoy the reputation here on Price Scope that they do is because they are consistent in their standards of quality, their passion for excellence and their desire to provide customers with a high level of customer service.

You mention ''Brian Gavin''s eye'' and I know exactly what you mean... I''ve known Brian Gavin for longer than I can remember and he''s nothing if consistent... When I spoke with Lesley earlier today about the diamonds they had that might be of interest to one of our clients and I said ''is it Hearts & Arrows'' and Lesley said ''yes, it''s one of Brian''s H&A''s'' I knew exactly what she meant because I''m familiar with his standards and they are familiar with mine. This is consistency, is it not?

If a consumer buys ''Diamond Brand X'' from a diamond vendor who has built a reputation for being precise and selling a product of a specific quality and has the confidence to recommend that brand of diamond to another consumer, that recommendation is made on the premise that the quality of the cut and visual performance will be consistent... If the vendors here on PS were inconsistent in the product that they sold or their level of customer service, they would not fare well on the forum for very long.

True. But Todd, we''re talking about WF and GOG who have a reputation with their consistant H&A''s. So Infinity''s cutting style, while no doubt interesting and may even be cost effective for Infinity, has no relevance in the end when compared to these other vendors I''ve mentioned. When all is said and done, the consumer is getting a gorgeous H&A from either you, WF, or GOG.

 

[Harriet]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:39:09 PM
Author: elle_chris

Date: 6/15/2009 10:22:11 PM
Author: Todd Gray

Date: 6/15/2009 10:07:52 PM
Author: Harriet
Todd,
From a consumer''s perspective, consistency does not matter since we are not buying in bulk.

Perhaps, but I believe that the very reason that dealers like White Flash, Good Old Gold, High Performance Diamonds, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Nice Ice, etc. enjoy the reputation here on Price Scope that they do is because they are consistent in their standards of quality, their passion for excellence and their desire to provide customers with a high level of customer service.

You mention ''Brian Gavin''s eye'' and I know exactly what you mean... I''ve known Brian Gavin for longer than I can remember and he''s nothing if consistent... When I spoke with Lesley earlier today about the diamonds they had that might be of interest to one of our clients and I said ''is it Hearts & Arrows'' and Lesley said ''yes, it''s one of Brian''s H&A''s'' I knew exactly what she meant because I''m familiar with his standards and they are familiar with mine. This is consistency, is it not?

If a consumer buys ''Diamond Brand X'' from a diamond vendor who has built a reputation for being precise and selling a product of a specific quality and has the confidence to recommend that brand of diamond to another consumer, that recommendation is made on the premise that the quality of the cut and visual performance will be consistent... If the vendors here on PS were inconsistent in the product that they sold or their level of customer service, they would not fare well on the forum for very long.

True. But Todd, we''re talking about WF and GOG who have a reputation with their consistant H&A''s. So Infinity''s cutting style, while no doubt interesting and may even be cost effective for Infinity, has no relevance in the end when compared to these other vendors I''ve mentioned. When all is said and done, the consumer is getting a gorgeous H&A from either you, WF, or GOG.

Ditto.

Todd,
FYI: "Do not make blatant commercial posts, requests to visit your website, or solicit any other contact."

 

[mrssalvo]

I agree that all the vendors who are well respected here have earned it b/c of there consistency in producing quality products/diamonds and their customer service.

For the record, I do not think Todd has said anything inappropriate or out of line at all, not sure why he''s getting jumped on

 

[the tree sees]

Ditto to mrsalvo. Very respectfully put, Todd; thank you for sharing with us!

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 6/15/2009 11:03:39 PM
Author: mrssalvo
I agree that all the vendors who are well respected here have earned it b/c of there consistency in producing quality products/diamonds and their customer service.

For the record, I do not think Todd has said anything inappropriate or out of line at all, not sure why he''s getting jumped on

I think that the misunderstanding is that I was attempting to explain why Infinity produces about 1000 diamonds a year from the perspective of an insider who is familiar with their approach in response to the statement about Infinity only producing 1000 diamonds per year. I am not the person who introduced the concept of Infinity''s limited production to the thread, I merely provided insight into the depth of that statement. What I thought would be an interesting insight was taken as marketing and I''m sorry if I offended anybody, it was not my intent. However I also believe that I have been quite forthright in my opinion about the high quality of the other vendors within this post and other posts that I have made here on PS since it''s inception.

 

[Harriet]

1. The discussion of consistency is a red herring.
2. No one is attacking Todd. Like Elle, I am giving him the benefit of doubt and alerting him to a policy about which he may be unaware.

 

[the tree sees]

Harriet,

The discussion of consistency isn''t a red herring to me. I don''t have your expertise to adequately separate a vendor''s wheat from his chaff, and even though I know I can rely on the PS community to help me choose a great stone, I also like knowing that going with certain vendors will almost always produce satisfactory results--both for my imminent purchases and those I may choose to make in the future.

 

[elle_chris]

Date: 6/15/2009 11:03:39 PM
Author: mrssalvo
I agree that all the vendors who are well respected here have earned it b/c of there consistency in producing quality products/diamonds and their customer service.

For the record, I do not think Todd has said anything inappropriate or out of line at all, not sure why he's getting jumped on

I don't think Harriet or myself mean to jump on Todd. But whenever a thread about a particular vendor is created, and that vendor posts about their product, there's a chance that to some (like myself) it comes off as self promoting.
Especially when the vendor asks the OP to contact them and then goes into explaining what "may" make their line "better." (eg cutting style)

Todd- it's great that you mentioned how you've sent customers to other vendors, and how you also believe they have a wonderful product. Totally respect that. I just think next time you mention all the great vendors on PS, perhaps you should leave your own name off the list..

 

[VRBeauty]

The OP asked for a comparison of WF and Infinity diamonds... Paul's explanation of the is part of addressing one or two aspects of the comparison -- cost and selection. I think that's fair within the parameters of "consumer education." He also indicated his respect for other PS vendors in more than one posting, and said that he has sent customers their way, so I don't see his participation in this thread as "promotion" as opposed to providing information. Several posters in other threads have raved about their infinity cut diamonds, but in the end, what matters is what the buyer likes.

OK, I just re-read that and realized that it sounds totally namby-pamby. Blame it on a long work day. Nonetheless I appreciate the insights Todd offered into the cutting process Infinity uses. The most important factor -- whether someone falls in love with the resulting stone -- is still subjective.

 

[Kaleigh]

Todd has been here a long time way before many of us.

His registration date doesn't reflect that.

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 6/15/2009 9:51:27 PM
Author: Todd Gray
There are many excellent vendors to be found here on Price Scope and of the vendors I''ve seen mentioned on this thread I think we all share a similar passion for excellence and a commitment to our customers. You might be surprised at how much we interact with each other and share ideas, success stories and support one another through hard times... The super ideal sector of the market is an extremely small niche, so please don''t get caught up in who''s better and all that, we''re all striving to improve the diamond industry as a group. While I''m obviously a big fan of Paul''s Infinity production, after all, I''ve chosen to represent it and while it is true that Paul virtually hand selects his dealers - the relationship between a vendor and their dealers is synergistic and truly a two way street... but I am also a fan of a lot of my competitors and recommend them frequently to customers when we don''t happen to have what they are looking for - earlier today I referred one of our customers to Lesley & Brian at Brian Gavin Diamonds because they happen to have exactly what the customer is looking for and we don''t... And there are days when I refer people to White Flash and Good Old Gold - Jonathan and I had a wonderful conversation just last Friday and exchanged ideas about how to better present information via the web! The Price Scope vendor group is very closely knit and I mean it when I say that Stuinkc can''t go wrong by selecting either stone, I am confident that they are both gorgeous

I''d really like to echo this post by Todd wholeheartedly.

Pricescope enjoys an embarassment of riches by having several vendors who collectively offer the best goods you can come by, and oftentimes the right choice comes down to ''who has what I''m looking for''. The standards for excellence here are so high that consumers really can''t go wrong.

Focusing on vendor vs. vendor is missing the forest for the trees. We''re not here to worry about individually competing with one another; we''re here to share a common goal in educating the market because it benefits our industry and our collective livelihoods. As Todd mentioned, the super ideal market is an extremely small niche, and the way to grow that niche is to help consumers learn how exceptional cutting affects diamonds.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/15/2009 11:46:55 PM
Author: Kaleigh
Todd has been here a long time way before many of us.

His registration date doesn''t reflect that.

Ditto.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:43:21 PM
Author: Harriet
Todd,

FYI: ''Do not make blatant commercial posts, requests to visit your website, or solicit any other contact.''

I believe Todd was telling the OP if he has problem contacting Wink about the HPD stone, he is available too, as Wink is out of town. Might not be phrase correctly as he has noted in the next response to Elle.

 

[Maisie]

Date: 6/15/2009 9:52:18 PM
Author: Harriet

Date: 6/15/2009 2:45:31 PM
Author: Maisie
I don't think Whiteflash actually cut their diamonds. I think they buy them in. With Infinity you know that less than 1000 are cut every year. Thats a nice kind of exclusivity. (I don't know if I spelled that correctly lol!).

How is it relevant how many stones each vendor cuts or has cut each year? By the above reasoning, Infinity may be more exclusive than Cartier. Stuinkc, I have a Whiteflash diamond (caveat: it was bought when Brian Gavin was the 'eye') which continues to mesmerise me. Pick the stone that you find more beautiful.

I was responding to this question by the OP:

'anybody know how many aca h&a diamonds white flash manufactures a year?'

 

[Allison D.]

I know of the regulars already know this, but for the benefit of those who are new, I'm happy to provide some more information on our production.

ACAs are produced the same way they have been for the past decade plus. Our siteholders have been trained to cut according to our exacting specifications for the brand. Once produced, they are inspected closely to ensure they bear all the characteristics required to earn the brand; those that don't are rejected.

Production levels are impacted by inventory movement to some degree, and to fluctuations in the price of rough. In the last few years, I'd estimate we produce in the neighborhood of 1,200 ACAs in a year's time (not including our ACA melee).

 

[Harriet]

Todd,

Elle has explained my previously post perfectly. I meant no offence and I hope none was taken.

 

[Lula]

Date: 6/16/2009 8:41:25 AM
Author: Allison D.
I know of the regulars already know this, but for the benefit of those who are new, I''m happy to provide some more information on our production.


ACAs are produced the same way they have been for the past decade plus. Our siteholders have been trained to cut according to our exacting specifications for the brand. Once produced, they are inspected closely to ensure they bear all the characteristics required to earn the brand; those that don''t are rejected.


Production levels are impacted by inventory movement to some degree, and to fluctuations in the price of rough. In the last few years, I''d estimate we produce in the neighborhood of 1,200 ACAs in a year''s time (not including our ACA melee).

So there''s the answer to your production question, stuinkc -- are you still out there??? I hope this digression did not discourage you! I believe it demonstrates that whether or not you choose ACA or Infinity, your FF will be wearing a diamond that is a true rarity in the world of cut diamonds!

 

[whitby_2773]

Date: 6/16/2009 10:02:31 AM
Author: sarap333

So there's the answer to your production question, stuinkc -- are you still out there??? I hope this digression did not discourage you! I believe it demonstrates that whether or not you choose ACA or Infinity, your FF will be wearing a diamond that is a true rarity in the world of cut diamonds!

***stuinkc ran screaming from the room and bought a ring from kay's***

 

[joelly]

Date: 6/16/2009 4:49:43 PM
Author: whitby_2773

Date: 6/16/2009 10:02:31 AM
Author: sarap333

So there''s the answer to your production question, stuinkc -- are you still out there??? I hope this digression did not discourage you! I believe it demonstrates that whether or not you choose ACA or Infinity, your FF will be wearing a diamond that is a true rarity in the world of cut diamonds!

***stuinkc ran screaming from the room and bought a ring from kay''s***

LMAO!!! Good one Whitby!

He didn''t realize what he was creating by his question.

 

[Lula]

Date: 6/16/2009 4:49:43 PM
Author: whitby_2773

Date: 6/16/2009 10:02:31 AM

Author: sarap333


So there''s the answer to your production question, stuinkc -- are you still out there??? I hope this digression did not discourage you! I believe it demonstrates that whether or not you choose ACA or Infinity, your FF will be wearing a diamond that is a true rarity in the world of cut diamonds!

***stuinkc ran screaming from the room and bought a ring from kay''s***

LOL!! My greatest fear - we''ve scared a newbie into the maul! Seriously, I hope he comes back soon and puts an end to the suspense!

 

[Fly Girl]

Date: 6/15/2009 10:07:52 PM
Author: Harriet
Todd,
From a consumer''s perspective, consistency does not matter since we are not buying in bulk.

Harriet - I''m thinking that there is value to the consumer from a consistent product, in that should the need for a replacement stone arise, it is easier to get a similar stone to what you had.

I own a hand-picked 60/60 RB that looks a lot better than the paper would suggest. When I lost the stone, and the jeweler brought in replacements, I could immediately tell that they were dogs compared to my original stone. But, I really had no way of proving how much nicer my original looked. Ease of replacement is one reason to go with a branded stone, such as ACA or Crafted by Infinity, because the brand name is in my papers that I sent to the insurance company. And, knowing that the brand is consistent gives me piece of mind should my diamond need replacement in the future.

 

[Harriet]

Fly Girl,
I see your point. It wasn't lost in a sea of red herrings (ok, enough tortured metaphors

). That said, consistency can be disrupted. A number of posters have pointed out that WF's parameters for ACAs have become more generous since Brian's departure. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

Stuinkc,
Do ignore our squabbling and let your eyes do the talking. Good luck!

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 6/16/2009 9:11:35 PM
Author: Harriet
Fly Girl,
I see your point. It wasn't lost in a sea of red herrings (ok, enough tortured metaphors

). That said, consistency can be disrupted. A number of posters have pointed out that WF's parameters for ACAs have become more generous since Brian's departure. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

Stuinkc,
Do ignore our squabbling and let your eyes do the talking. Good luck!

I don't know precisely why this theme continues to grow legs, but it's not based in fact.

The parameters haven't changed; they are being produced using not only the same parameters but the same sightholders we've used for several years.

 

[Harriet]

Alj,
I''m happy to stand corrected, especially as I''d like to upgrade my studs.