How do I know if I should move on?

[Patchee]

I am not too sure why I feel insecure. I just feel like in a way we are living together, I am living the role of wife without the ring, the security, and the status of being his wife...but I am only the live-in g/f.


LOL.. Above is your statement (original poster)

Hello... I am the live in too, I think that was our first mistake!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/11/2006 2:28:57 PM
Author: Patchee
I am not too sure why I feel insecure. I just feel like in a way we are living together, I am living the role of wife without the ring, the security, and the status of being his wife...but I am only the live-in g/f.


LOL.. Above is your statement (original poster)

Hello... I am the live in too, I think that was our first mistake!

I just want to add my .02, for whatever it''s worth. It''s not the living together that''s the mistake, it''s doing so without thinking through the long term consequences of intermingling lives and things when one partner is ready to be married and the other is not. I think a lot of women think that moving in together will garuantee marriage or that it will persuade their boyfriends to wanting to get married. While that may happen, if he wants to marry you he will want to whether or not you live together. There is nothing wrong with being the live in girfriend, it''s what some people choose over marriage. But when a woman thinks she''s going to get her man to marry her because she''s moved in with him she is fooling herself and being unfair to him, unless the expecation of engagement and marriage is laid out in a timeline prior to moving in.

 

[~*Alexis*~]

Date: 10/11/2006 12:00:19 PM
Author: stillwaiting

Hi Ladies,

I am very glad to have found this site and have taken you advice and really given it some thought.

We sat down last night and had a very serious discussion about “our” future. I know sometimes it is hard to be honest with a person, and you don’t want to hurt them. We have been together for a long time and I do love him, I want to be with him for the rest of my life. Many people do say that young love can grow apart as you figure out who you are, but we have grown together. Although there are some things that we do not agree with.

Our talk was very positive. I asked the questions and got the answers I needed. The list of reasons was one issue he wanted to work on, which I know we can. I was relived that it was not a whole list.

We discussed that he dose want to get married in 2.5 years after he is done his degree, which I support. And he has plans of proposing within the year. I felt horrible that I needed a timeline of our proposal. He says he can’t give me a date, a month because things like this should be a surprise and he wants me to be blown away! I can understand this!!!

I appreciate very much all your suggestions and advice. I was a very upset yesterday and need some time to deal with my actually feelings. Thank-you so much for all you help.

Now maybe I can officially become a lady in waiting

You are ADDED to the list....YAY! let the wait begin!

 

[Patchee]

Date: 10/11/2006 2:28:57 PM
Author: Patchee
I am not too sure why I feel insecure. I just feel like in a way we are living together, I am living the role of wife without the ring, the security, and the status of being his wife...but I am only the live-in g/f.

LOL.. Above is your statement (original poster)
Hello... I am the live in too, I think that was our first mistake!
I just want to add my .02, for whatever it''s worth. It''s not the living together that''s the mistake, it''s doing so without thinking through the long term consequences of intermingling lives and things when one partner is ready to be married and the other is not. I think a lot of women think that moving in together will garuantee marriage or that it will persuade their boyfriends to wanting to get married. While that may happen, if he wants to marry you he will want to whether or not you live together. There is nothing wrong with being the live in girfriend, it''s what some people choose over marriage. But when a woman thinks she''s going to get her man to marry her because she''s moved in with him she is fooling herself and being unfair to him, unless the expecation of engagement and marriage is laid out in a timeline prior to moving in.
Kimberly


And while I certainly 110% agree with you Kimberly sometimes you feel like ass when your love does not want to marry you, but you do. I *once* felt like this, people who remember my posts here can attest to such. Now I would not marry him for anything... Because I am happy with me and with our situation but that does not mean that I will be the live in forever.. If he wanted a live in then make it his live in wife... again, that won''t be me. SO many people live to gether unwed and that is fine in every aspect, that is if that''s what they BOTH want. Me, I think why fund his dream of *his* house hishishishis stuff when I could be doing the same on my own? I think marriage is a special bond but also some sort of security for the future. I certainly do not want to be 55 and have never owned my own home because I was too busy living with him, again, funding his dream. As a live in girlfriend which that is what I am we have NOTHING together on the financial end... So, although we are older adults and it is ok to keep financial ends separate you do end up feeling like you have nothing and that your just a live in girlfriend.

I think people who chose not to marry that do and have been living to gether for year are wrapped up financially together whether it is house or cars whatever to me, that IS normal.

What I am doing just is not.

Am I just too far out there or do I have an inkling of some kind of point?

 

[stillwaiting]

Just the other day we had a big fight and he confessed he has a list of reasons why he won’t propose to me. I had walked away and said that he could not have meant that, even though he assured me these were his true feelings.

In regards to this comment I had made.

When we were fighting he came back at me and said that he had another reason to add to his list why he did not want to propose to me…yet! Now the previous day I had confronted him about the marriage issue because we had been out to dinner with HIS family and they again started discussing when we would be tying the knot. I was somewhat disgusted with this issue because his sister had said she was thought it was wrong we were living together and we were not yet married…but that is whole different subject.

Anyway when brought up a list, I was very upset and said “You can’t mean that” He told me the next day out of anger that he wanted me to believe this!

The next night when I we sat down to talk, I really wanted to know if there was such a list. NOT looking for the answers to make me feel better, BUT to know if he truly felt that way. He said there was NOT a list that he did want to be with me and get married. Although the issue he did have was when I am confronted with an issue, such as a fight I kind of shut down and need time to process and deal with it before I can really discuss it with a person. We both did agree that it was blown up and communication is important and could have prevented the fight.

Go out there, and get a life other than him

We and “I” do have life separate from each other. I hope that I don’t come off as he is my life and only him…It’s not like I sit at home each night wait for him. We have a busy schedule the both of us and have our own things and out together things. If he were to leave me today, I have my girlfriends, my own life to go one with.

BUT we also have a life together. We have been together for many years, his family his mine and vs versa. I am as close to his mom as I am to my own, our families and lives fit together.

However, out talk made me feel that we are stronger then we have been. I did mention that he DOSE need to deal with hurtful comments, which are hard to forget.

Don''t forget to post in the "Introduce Yourself"

Thanks, I will have to do this!

 

[stillwaiting]

But when a woman thinks she''s going to get her man to marry her because she''s moved in with him she is fooling herself and being unfair to him, unless the expecation of engagement and marriage is laid out in a timeline prior to moving in.

We moved intgether about 3 years ago (roughly) durning that time we had both graduated and moved into the city to go to college. Out first place, everthing and engagment was NOT on my mind at the time. I knew I loved this guy but moving intogether was big enough!

I mean what girl wants to "fool" her guy into marrying her. I want him to make his own choice and want because he wants to be with me forever, not be fooled in and then we realize we are not right for each other. YUCK!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:48:11 PM
Author: stillwaiting

But when a woman thinks she''s going to get her man to marry her because she''s moved in with him she is fooling herself and being unfair to him, unless the expecation of engagement and marriage is laid out in a timeline prior to moving in.

We moved intgether about 3 years ago (roughly) durning that time we had both graduated and moved into the city to go to college. Out first place, everthing and engagment was NOT on my mind at the time. I knew I loved this guy but moving intogether was big enough!

I mean what girl wants to ''fool'' her guy into marrying her. I want him to make his own choice and want because he wants to be with me forever, not be fooled in and then we realize we are not right for each other. YUCK!

stillwaiting,

Unfortunately lots of women approach moving in together as a means to an end, marriage, without discussing this with their partner. If my scenario doesn''t apply to you, that''s great, but it does apply to lots of women.

My point was that moving in together without clarification regarding what the future looks like leads to situations such as yours. You are in the situation you''re in because you didn''t examine what you wanted in the future as a couple so you didn''t share a path as partners. Now you want something he isn''t ready for and it is having a big affect on you, big enough to seek out a message board to discuss your boyfriend not wanting to get married.

I''m not trying to pick on you, I am just hoping that some other girl who reads this that is contemplating moving in with her boyfriend will think twice about doing so without examining what she wants for herself as well as what he wants and how these things mesh, or don''t. Because my guess is you wouldn''t hope that some other girl ends up as frustated as you are.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:23:40 PM
Author: Patchee

Date: 10/11/2006 2:28:57 PM
Author: Patchee
I am not too sure why I feel insecure. I just feel like in a way we are living together, I am living the role of wife without the ring, the security, and the status of being his wife...but I am only the live-in g/f.


LOL.. Above is your statement (original poster)

Hello... I am the live in too, I think that was our first mistake!
I just want to add my .02, for whatever it''s worth. It''s not the living together that''s the mistake, it''s doing so without thinking through the long term consequences of intermingling lives and things when one partner is ready to be married and the other is not. I think a lot of women think that moving in together will garuantee marriage or that it will persuade their boyfriends to wanting to get married. While that may happen, if he wants to marry you he will want to whether or not you live together. There is nothing wrong with being the live in girfriend, it''s what some people choose over marriage. But when a woman thinks she''s going to get her man to marry her because she''s moved in with him she is fooling herself and being unfair to him, unless the expecation of engagement and marriage is laid out in a timeline prior to moving in.
Kimberly


And while I certainly 110% agree with you Kimberly sometimes you feel like ass when your love does not want to marry you, but you do. I *once* felt like this, people who remember my posts here can attest to such. Now I would not marry him for anything... Because I am happy with me and with our situation but that does not mean that I will be the live in forever.. If he wanted a live in then make it his live in wife... again, that won''t be me. SO many people live to gether unwed and that is fine in every aspect, that is if that''s what they BOTH want. Me, I think why fund his dream of *his* house hishishishis stuff when I could be doing the same on my own? I think marriage is a special bond but also some sort of security for the future. I certainly do not want to be 55 and have never owned my own home because I was too busy living with him, again, funding his dream. As a live in girlfriend which that is what I am we have NOTHING together on the financial end... So, although we are older adults and it is ok to keep financial ends separate you do end up feeling like you have nothing and that your just a live in girlfriend.

I think people who chose not to marry that do and have been living to gether for year are wrapped up financially together whether it is house or cars whatever to me, that IS normal.

What I am doing just is not.

Am I just too far out there or do I have an inkling of some kind of point?

Patchee,

I agree, it would suck to feel that way, but this goes back to a woman needing to take control of her life, figure out what she wants and go after it. If that''s owning a home alone, great, if it''s marriage that''s fine too. But villifying a boyfriend or playing the victim (whoa is me, he won''t marry me) because you''re not on the same path makes no sense to me. And moving in together without considering long term consequences, good and bad, is being irresponsible with your own life, unless you (the collective you, not you specifically, Patchee) are a fly by the seat of your pants person. As I said to still waiting, my goal is not to make anyone feel bad, I just hope that some girl who reads this that is contemplating moving in with a boyfriend learns something so that she doesn''t end up in the same position. Moving in with someone does not garuantee a proposal is going to come.

 

[stillwaiting]

Kim,

You have a very good advice. if I was in the same situation now I would think this would help me a lot.

Right now me and my bf are on the same path, maybe I am just more excited to get to the end. Plus to tell ya the truth I know I have been waiting for this all my life, to get engaged, married, have the wedding on my dreams. But the more I think about our talk last night...I think maybe with a year before we get engaged I might need that time. Sure we get the comments from out ffamily now about tying the knot but once we do, we will start hearing out the kids...and I know I don''t want to start a family right away. But don''t get me wrong I love kids...but need a little time!

 

[Patchee]

Oh Kim, I understand that you were not directing your thoughts on me soley, just as a whole and that''s wonderful because that''s why we are all here.

You are so right, living with someone guarentees nothing ... and again correct on we have choices to chose what, when & how we want to do them. I have to say you are such a great "grounder" here for so many I am sure.. please stick around here because you are needed!

 

[musey]

Date: 10/11/2006 3:23:40 PM
Author: Patchee
Date: 10/11/2006 2:28:57 PM

I think a lot of women think that moving in together will garuantee marriage or that it will persuade their boyfriends to wanting to get married. While that may happen, if he wants to marry you he will want to whether or not you live together. There is nothing wrong with being the live in girfriend, it''s what some people choose over marriage. But when a woman thinks she''s going to get her man to marry her because she''s moved in with him she is fooling herself and being unfair to him, unless the expecation of engagement and marriage is laid out in a timeline prior to moving in.

Sorry, I didn''t read all the posts in depth, but I just wanted to throw something out there. In my case, my bf has said he wants to marry me "someday" for over a year, but thought it would be a really good idea for us to live together and see how we do before we could decide whether we were compatible/mature/ready enough to say we are "forever." Maybe my agreeing to that was naive? We''ve lived together for 5 months now, and I''m still waiting, so I don''t know for sure yet. But he does say that he wants to be engaged by the end of next summer (''07).

I think it always depends, but in some cases, moving in together can be a "test run," a stepping stone to ease him in to the idea of marriage, not necessarily a free milk situation. If you''re living the role of "wife" without actually being his wife, it''s as much a test run for you as for him. And is he living up to the role of "husband," even though he''s not (officially) yet?

The idea of a test run is not necessarily a risky one... better to figure out you''re not cohabitationally compatible as bf and gf than fiances.

 

[stillwaiting]

We''ve lived together for 5 months now, and I''m still waiting, so I don''t know for sure yet. But he does say that he wants to be engaged by the end of next summer (''07).


We have been living together for 3 years now I do think that living together we have learned a lot about eachother, and have probally gotten through the worst of it. Men can be so messy! Plus my bf is the baby of the family and had everything done for him!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/11/2006 4:21:52 PM
Author: stillwaiting
Kim,

You have a very good advice. if I was in the same situation now I would think this would help me a lot.

Right now me and my bf are on the same path, maybe I am just more excited to get to the end. Plus to tell ya the truth I know I have been waiting for this all my life, to get engaged, married, have the wedding on my dreams. But the more I think about our talk last night...I think maybe with a year before we get engaged I might need that time. Sure we get the comments from out ffamily now about tying the knot but once we do, we will start hearing out the kids...and I know I don''t want to start a family right away. But don''t get me wrong I love kids...but need a little time!

still,

I am so glad you have come to a place of understanding. Relationships, when they are on the right track, can be so amazing and such a blessing.

And there''s nothing wrong with not wanting kids immediately. Hubby and I still haven''t even decided whether or not we''ll have them at all. To each his own...everyone needs to create the life that is best for him or herself, no matter what outside influences say.

I just hope for everyone that they find happiness, and that isn''t always marrying the man they are currently with (this doesn''t seem to be the case for you).

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/11/2006 4:26:30 PM
Author: musey

Date: 10/11/2006 3:23:40 PM
Author: Patchee


Date: 10/11/2006 2:28:57 PM

I think a lot of women think that moving in together will garuantee marriage or that it will persuade their boyfriends to wanting to get married. While that may happen, if he wants to marry you he will want to whether or not you live together. There is nothing wrong with being the live in girfriend, it's what some people choose over marriage. But when a woman thinks she's going to get her man to marry her because she's moved in with him she is fooling herself and being unfair to him, unless the expecation of engagement and marriage is laid out in a timeline prior to moving in.

Sorry, I didn't read all the posts in depth, but I just wanted to throw something out there. In my case, my bf has said he wants to marry me 'someday' for over a year, but thought it would be a really good idea for us to live together and see how we do before we could decide whether we were compatible/mature/ready enough to say we are 'forever.' Maybe my agreeing to that was naive? We've lived together for 5 months now, and I'm still waiting, so I don't know for sure yet. But he does say that he wants to be engaged by the end of next summer ('07).

I think it always depends, but in some cases, moving in together can be a 'test run,' a stepping stone to ease him in to the idea of marriage, not necessarily a free milk situation. If you're living the role of 'wife' without actually being his wife, it's as much a test run for you as for him. And is he living up to the role of 'husband,' even though he's not (officially) yet?

The idea of a test run is not necessarily a risky one... better to figure out you're not cohabitationally compatible as bf and gf than fiances.

Hi Musey,

The risk of the test run lies in your unsurity as to whether he will marry you or not. Were you naive, beats me, I'm not you and I don't live your llife. If the benefits outway the cost for you than that's great. I'm not opposed to people living together, to each his own, I just hate to see people make choices without being fully informed first and then being angry at someone else for not getting what they wanted in the first place. I don't ascribe to the whole cow theory either as I think it's demeaning and turns women into victims as opposed to people who make choices. I think marriages that start of in cohabitation can work. But I am a lover of statistics, and according to statistics the odds are stacked against those relationships. It wasn't a risk I or my husband was willing to take (not based in religion as I am not a religious person).

Again, I hope every girl gets her dream man, proposal, wedding, etc. But I also hope that every girl/woman is cognizant that if she doesn't get married she is not going to shrivel up and die...life can be good without a man or with a different man if the one you're with doesn't want the same things as you.

 

[stillwaiting]

Date: 10/11/2006 5:10:25 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 10/11/2006 4:21:52 PM
Author: stillwaiting
Kim,

You have a very good advice. if I was in the same situation now I would think this would help me a lot.

Right now me and my bf are on the same path, maybe I am just more excited to get to the end. Plus to tell ya the truth I know I have been waiting for this all my life, to get engaged, married, have the wedding on my dreams. But the more I think about our talk last night...I think maybe with a year before we get engaged I might need that time. Sure we get the comments from out ffamily now about tying the knot but once we do, we will start hearing out the kids...and I know I don''t want to start a family right away. But don''t get me wrong I love kids...but need a little time!

still,

I am so glad you have come to a place of understanding. Relationships, when they are on the right track, can be so amazing and such a blessing.

And there''s nothing wrong with not wanting kids immediately. Hubby and I still haven''t even decided whether or not we''ll have them at all. To each his own...everyone needs to create the life that is best for him or herself, no matter what outside influences say.

I just hope for everyone that they find happiness, and that isn''t always marrying the man they are currently with (this doesn''t seem to be the case for you).

Thanks Goodness I am not the only one! my sister after 3 years of being married just got pregnant. I really didn''t think it was out place to ask when..I knew it would happen when they were ready. Even though they are always asking us when we are getting married.

Plus I don''t want the only reason to get married be to just have children. I want to enjoy being married for a while

Thanks for the wonderful comments.

My bf is a great guy. I know he dose have a problem with saying things when he gets upset, but I have seen him imporve in this...other then that if for some reason we did not end up together I don''t think I would ever find a guy as good as him! I saw a statment made that when you look at what type of husband/father your b/f might make you should look at his father. Might not be always the case....but I know his dad is an amazing father and husband!!!

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/11/2006 6:03:57 PM
Author: stillwaiting

Date: 10/11/2006 5:10:25 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Date: 10/11/2006 4:21:52 PM
Author: stillwaiting
Kim,

You have a very good advice. if I was in the same situation now I would think this would help me a lot.

Right now me and my bf are on the same path, maybe I am just more excited to get to the end. Plus to tell ya the truth I know I have been waiting for this all my life, to get engaged, married, have the wedding on my dreams. But the more I think about our talk last night...I think maybe with a year before we get engaged I might need that time. Sure we get the comments from out ffamily now about tying the knot but once we do, we will start hearing out the kids...and I know I don't want to start a family right away. But don't get me wrong I love kids...but need a little time!

still,

I am so glad you have come to a place of understanding. Relationships, when they are on the right track, can be so amazing and such a blessing.

And there's nothing wrong with not wanting kids immediately. Hubby and I still haven't even decided whether or not we'll have them at all. To each his own...everyone needs to create the life that is best for him or herself, no matter what outside influences say.

I just hope for everyone that they find happiness, and that isn't always marrying the man they are currently with (this doesn't seem to be the case for you).

Thanks Goodness I am not the only one! my sister after 3 years of being married just got pregnant. I really didn't think it was out place to ask when..I knew it would happen when they were ready. Even though they are always asking us when we are getting married.

Plus I don't want the only reason to get married be to just have children. I want to enjoy being married for a while

Thanks for the wonderful comments.

My bf is a great guy. I know he dose have a problem with saying things when he gets upset, but I have seen him imporve in this...other then that if for some reason we did not end up together I don't think I would ever find a guy as good as him! I saw a statment made that when you look at what type of husband/father your b/f might make you should look at his father. Might not be always the case....but I know his dad is an amazing father and husband!!!

You are definitely not alone. And if memory serves Mara and her husband are in the same boat as mine and I are, undecided. My sister has a 10 month old, she was married for 2 years when he was born. I saw her a few weeks ago and she said "whatever you do, wait 5 years." She was joking of course, because the baby is a ton of work and she's exhausted, but it cracked me up.

It's so fun being in love. But it is not always the case that men are going be like their fathers. My deceased father-in-law was a totally removed husband and father. All he cared about was work (he was the chief of staff of a hospital) and alcohol. My husband is the antithesis. He works for himself so he can set his own schedule and he is a totally dedicated husband and son (his mom is 86 and in the late stages of alzheimer's and he takes care of her).

Keep us posted and keep working towards being happy being in the stage your at in life. It's all a big learning experience after all, even if it's not where we hopedor planned to be.

 

[musey]

Date: 10/11/2006 5:23:39 PM
Author: KimberlyH

Hi Musey,


The risk of the test run lies in your unsurity as to whether he will marry you or not. Were you naive, beats me, I'm not you and I don't live your llife. If the benefits outway the cost for you than that's great. I'm not opposed to people living together, to each his own, I just hate to see people make choices without being fully informed first and then being angry at someone else for not getting what they wanted in the first place. I don't ascribe to the whole cow theory either as I think it's demeaning and turns women into victims as opposed to people who make choices. I think marriages that start of in cohabitation can work. But I am a lover of statistics, and according to statistics the odds are stacked against those relationships. It wasn't a risk I or my husband was willing to take (not based in religion as I am not a religious person).


Again, I hope every girl gets her dream man, proposal, wedding, etc. But I also hope that every girl/woman is cognizant that if she doesn't get married she is not going to shrivel up and die...life can be good without a man or with a different man if the one you're with doesn't want the same things as you.

Sorry, I didn't in any way mean to argue against you, because you definitely have given good advice in this thread... I wasn't necessarily trying to disagree to that post. And I wasn't really looking for advice myself, just sharing a similar situation (although, granted, mine is MUCH shorter!)

It's so funny you mention the stats thing, I'm actually in the middle of a grad. sociology course on that exact subject and we've spent the past month talking about cohabitation! Small world! Statistics are a sticky subject, because it's hard to know which variable is the cause and which is the effect. In the case of the majority of cohabitations ending in breakups (not marriage), they've spent a LOT of time sorting out cause and effect. The sociologists working for the govt. (my professor is one of them) have determined that in over 90% of such relationships, it is not that the cohabitation caused the breakup. Those couples would have broken up before they reached engagement, anyway. What they found is that those people who are more likely to cohabitate before marriage are the same people who are less likely to get married OR stay married if they do. So therefore the cause of the breakup was not the cohabitation itself, but the people being those who are predisposed to not committing. On the other hand, couples that break up because of issues that arose during cohabitation would possibly have married, but would have a much greater chance of divorcing once they did.

I hope that wasn't too rambly to understand! The bottom line is that in over 90% of cases, cohabitation will not be the factor that breaks up a couple. It's that people are more likely to do it casually now, and live with someone that they wouldn't have ended up marrying anyway. So living with someone is, in reality, extremely unlikely to break up a couple that would have married (and stayed married) otherwise. But it might keep you from marrying someone you would have divorced later, anyway!

ETA: Edited to add that... also, the majority of research right now is suggesting that couples who go into a cohabitative relationship who already are planning on marrying in the future (and are officially using it as a "test run" precursor to engagement) actually are more likely to stay married if they DO tie the knot, but not any more or less likely to get married than those who wait to live together until marriage.

Everything in stats is entirely dependent on the situation of the poll participants, so "flat stats," as we like to call them (that simply present the percentages without the further details) aren't actually that demonstrative of how things work.

 

[KimberlyH]

Musey,

I am currently taking a class that has involved much time on my part defending my position on certain issues, so perhaps my post came across and an argument. I just wanted to share that I don''t condemn cohabitation, it''s just the whole eyes wide shut concept that I don''t condone. And women seem to do that a lot.

Statistics are a sticky thing, this is in fact part of what we are debating in my class (IQ and standardized testing methods and scores to be exact) but anyways. I think it''s easy for people to sway stats this way and that to represent their personal standpoints. Either way, I still wasn''t willing to take the risk (and I loved coming home from our honeymoon to a new and exciting life, not the same house with his newspapers covering the kitchen table as he left them).

 

[RoseAngel04]

Glad you had a talk with your bf still waiting.

Just want to put in my .02 that I have said in previous posts.

Every couple is different no matter what age they are. We as humans NEVER stop changing, it''s a part of life. Will someone change between 20-23 uh huh...what about from 30-33...YEP! Will some marriages young fail, ya...but so will marriage in middle age. Some are ready to marry young (like myself) and others are not. My FI is also my HS sweetheart and we were together for 4 years before the proposal. Does your bf possibly not like the idea of a super long engagement? I know that for my FI and I, one year (give or take a few months) is the longest we as a couple would be comfortable to be engaged....we have our own opinions and feelings about it. It''s possible that your bf wants to wait closer to when he expects to graduate to officially propose and start the wedding planning to avoid a long engagement.

 

[galeteia]

The stats debate is something that has cropped up on several threads, and is certainly a fascinating one. FF is doing his PhD in clinical pysch, and has this bizzare love of stats... weird. But I love him, stats and all.

After getting my dander up over one of the other threads, where I felt religious perspectives were using stats to support judgements made on ''living in sin'', he linked me to a page that had stats results on the ''significantly higher'' divorce rate among religious vs non-religious folk.

That eased the knotting of my knickers considerably, and was a good lesson in relying too heavily on stats.

But what you said, Musey, about the difference between couples who aren''t interested in commitment shacking up and those who are deliberately living together as a ''trial run'' for marriage really ring true for me, because that''s what FF and I did. The only way for us to test whether our little relationship was the ''real deal'' was for us to cohabitate, and we did so with that express intent and with marriage in mind. We lived together long enough to confirm it was what we''d hoped, then we got on with the marriage/engagement preparations.

I think it boils down to Mara''s comment about ''if he wanted to, he would''. If both parties genuinely want to get married, whether they live together first or not makes no difference.

 

[RoseAngel04]

Date: 10/12/2006 12:43:29 AM
Author: Galateia
The stats debate is something that has cropped up on several threads, and is certainly a fascinating one. FF is doing his PhD in clinical pysch, and has this bizzare love of stats... weird. But I love him, stats and all.

After getting my dander up over one of the other threads, where I felt religious perspectives were using stats to support judgements made on 'living in sin', he linked me to a page that had stats results on the 'significantly higher' divorce rate among religious vs non-religious folk.

That eased the knotting of my knickers considerably, and was a good lesson in relying too heavily on stats.

Hmm...I have NEVER heard a statistic supporting this and am shocked that you say there is a research study supporting this.

I personally would have assumed is was the complete opposite...interesting. It can also depend on what an individual or the researchers are defining as "religious." This can be a very fuzzy subject for some...

I have heard that statisics supporting that couples who do cohabitate prior to marriage do have a higher divorce rate.

 

[galeteia]

Date: 10/12/2006 1:23:33 AM
Author: RoseAngel04

Hmm...I have NEVER heard a statistic supporting this and am shocked that you say there is a research study supporting this.

I personally would have assumed is was the complete opposite...interesting. It can also depend on what an individual or the researchers are defining as ''religious.'' This can be a very fuzzy subject for some...

I have heard that statisics supporting that couples who do cohabitate prior to marriage do have a higher divorce rate.

Yep. I can dig up the link tomorrow if you like... it was a pretty eye-opening read. Ironically, I don''t recall that the study set out to ''find'' that result and were just as shocked as you are. The ''local christian groups'' were apparently ''outraged'' when the results were published, and it caused quite a brouhaha.

And I think Musey''s point was that there is a high rate of cohabitation among couples who divorce, which is a subtle but important difference, IMO.

 

[musey]

Date: 10/12/2006 12:43:29 AM
Author: Galateia

...The only way for us to test whether our little relationship was the ''real deal'' was for us to cohabitate, and we did so with that express intent and with marriage in mind. We lived together long enough to confirm it was what we''d hoped, then we got on with the marriage/engagement preparations.

Us too! I hope we''re on the same track as you and your fiance.

I do hope that people don''t weigh too many of their life''s decisions on what statistics show, since they can be so misleading. Especially when they''re so generalized!

P.S. congrats on your engagement/marriage plans!!!

 

[KimberlyH]

Just wanted to pipe in one last time to clarify and then I'll stop the thread hijack.

Neither I nor my husband is a religious person, we are both spiritual but this had nothing to do with our decision not to live together. As I said, I am well aware statistics can be misleading, but I believe they can be twisted any which way we like them so as to fit our perceptions of what is right and wrong. We didn't move in together for a multitude of reasons including statistics about cohabitation and our personal experiences with people who choose to do so. Our reasoning is not intended to be used to convince anyone else that cohabitation is right or wrong, as I stated before, to each his own.

My only objection to cohabitation is that so many young women move in with their boyfriends with high hopes and little to no consideration and communication regarding where the relationship going. It then seems that she often ends up furious and unsettled because the man in her life hasn't proposed and doesn't appear to intend to. Cohabitate to your hearts content, it truly doesn't affect or bother me, and it wouldn't if you were a stranger on the street or my best friend. But if a woman wants for marriage to be part of her future it's up to her to make sure it is.

 

[Mara]

the stats on the divorce rate with cohabitation vs not to me have more to do with who lives together out of fun or convenience and then finds themselves married at some point out of convenience or 'it just happened' vs those who go into cohabitation with discussions of marriage being around the corner or living together 6 months before the wedding takes place or something. there is so much more 'casual cohabitation' going on with that kind of casual mindset that a marriage is disposable, that i think that the results are bound to be skewed somehow.

probably the same with the religious vs non religious. religious is such a broad stroke, you have people who are hard core catholic, born again christians, those who reside in the middle, people who are cafeteria religious, or use it when it benefits them or are on the fringes of being non-caring. how can you lump all those diff types together and say that they have more chance of being divorced.

stats are useful IF you have more information to determine really who and what is being discussed and compared. being vague like 'if you live together you are more likely to divorce' or 'if you are religious you are more likely to get divorced' is just a recipe for 'miscommunication'. hehee.

anyway for me it really does boil down to what my husband said that one day, if people want to, THEY WILL. plain and simple. i agree that hardships or distance or living together or religions or whatever can pale in comparison to the will of two people wanting to be together and make a life together.

 

[KimberlyH]

Date: 10/12/2006 1:11:37 PM
Author: Mara
the stats on the divorce rate with cohabitation vs not to me have more to do with who lives together out of fun or convenience and then finds themselves married at some point out of convenience or ''it just happened'' vs those who go into cohabitation with discussions of marriage being around the corner or living together 6 months before the wedding takes place or something. there is so much more ''casual cohabitation'' going on with that kind of casual mindset that a marriage is disposable, that i think that the results are bound to be skewed somehow.

probably the same with the religious vs non religious. religious is such a broad stroke, you have people who are hard core catholic, born again christians, those who reside in the middle, people who are cafeteria religious, or use it when it benefits them or are on the fringes of being non-caring. how can you lump all those diff types together and say that they have more chance of being divorced.

stats are useful IF you have more information to determine really who and what is being discussed and compared. being vague like ''if you live together you are more likely to divorce'' or ''if you are religious you are more likely to get divorced'' is just a recipe for ''miscommunication''. hehee.

anyway for me it really does boil down to what my husband said that one day, if people want to, THEY WILL. plain and simple. i agree that hardships or distance or living together or religions or whatever can pale in comparison to the will of two people wanting to be together and make a life together.

Mara,

What you say regarding the reasons behind cohabitation speaks to my point. Not communicating prior to moving in together leads to the situations I am addressing, namely the different expectations people have going into the situation. He wants to cohabitate for convenience/fun, she wants to get married, neither expresses their desires and they end up in a really tough spot. Cohabitation just like every other aspect of a relationship, can be good or bad depending on the two people involved.

 

[laine]

Date: 10/11/2006 9:34:33 PM
Author: musey
It''s so funny you mention the stats thing, I''m actually in the middle of a grad. sociology course on that exact subject and we''ve spent the past month talking about cohabitation! Small world! Statistics are a sticky subject, because it''s hard to know which variable is the cause and which is the effect. In the case of the majority of cohabitations ending in breakups (not marriage), they''ve spent a LOT of time sorting out cause and effect. The sociologists working for the govt. (my professor is one of them) ....
also, the majority of research right now is suggesting that couples who go into a cohabitative relationship who already are planning on marrying in the future (and are officially using it as a ''test run'' precursor to engagement) actually are more likely to stay married if they DO tie the knot, but not any more or less likely to get married than those who wait to live together until marriage.

Hi Musey,
I''m a huge lover of GOOD stats, as I''m in a sociology/criminology phd program right now. I''ve actually been meaning to look up some of the cohabitation research (my boyfriend and I fall into the "cohabiting couple who already intended to marry" category). Could you recommend some good researchers to keep an eye out for (your prof, perhaps)? Thanks!
~Laine

(please excuse my slight hijack)

 

[AdaBeta27]

Essentially by the time the "Move on?" question has fought it's way up to the surface, you are past due to move on. Based on my own personal experience with cohibiting with the baby of his family and waiting years for him to get his act together so that we could marry, then finding out I'd married Mr. Lazy Dud Bumpkin, I say use your youth and economic power to benefit you, not him. You want to build a life with someone, not stand in the waiting line. You are still young enough to be able to marry either a man your own age or someone older and more accomplished. Take a look around that campus and see what else is out there. Once you're away from school and out in the work world, finding a mate gets harder to do because everyone tends to be either married, or divorced with a lot of baggage. If I were you, I'd move out, get my own place, and stop waiting. Life is not a dress rehearsal, and you just might find another man out there who is ready to go right now. You are exactly right about having all the duties of wife and none of the perks or authority. He's getting the benefits of this, not you. Having the wedding of your dreams is nice, but nothing says you have to stay on-call for this guy.

Oh, and as for rings: Time and Ada wait for no man, LOL. By the end of '06, I'm getting myself a 2ct. or close enough to it, and I'm paying in cash, too. My 2-year divorce anniversary date is this month, Mr. L.D.B. is just a 15-yr bad dream that I chalk up to my being young, foolish, sentimental, and easily manipulated. And dammit, I had to be the cook, maid, and breadwinner all those married years. So I've earned it! The Divorce Diamond: Success is the best revenge. >